Demo Bindings: Why or why not?

[surfsnowgirl]

Theoretically you shouldn't because you are using them to demo a ski, not to demo the binding, they should be like a good umpire, seen but not there to sway the outcome. We are in age of having the best demo bindings ever which makes our job testing skis a helluva lot easier.

I've heard lightweight girls say they'd never buy demo bindings because they make the skis a lot heavier. I just figured this was something I'd never understand since no one would ever, ever call me lightweight. Sure my Kenjas with demo bindings weigh a lot more than my 90Eights with non demo bindings but when skiing them I sure don't notice a difference. Maybe it does make a difference if someone weighs a 100lbs but I figured I'd never have to worry about that

 

[Philpug]

I've heard lightweight girls say they'd never buy demo bindings because they make the skis a lot heavier. I just figured this was something I'd never understand since no one would ever, ever call me lightweight. Maybe it does make a difference if someone weighs a 100lbs but I figured I'd never have to worry about that

Thats like still saying "All women's skis are wimpy"..Yes some...most demo bindings WERE heavy....just not the case any more. Many are the same binding that is on some of the system skis now offered. You will see the Look SPX as the system ski on the Experience skis or even the Pursuits. The Warden demo is on the Atomic Vantage X and Salomon XDR skis.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

Thats like still saying "All women's skis are wimpy"..Yes some...most demo bindings WERE heavy....just not the case any more. Many are the same binding that is on some of the system skis now offered. You will see the Look SPX as the system ski on the Experience skis or even the Pursuits. The Warden demo is on the Atomic Vantage X and Salomon XDR skis.

I completely agree with you. I think the girls I used to debate about this with were old school and just put a blanket label on all demo bindings saying "nope heavy, must dome off demo skis or I can't buy" and didn't realize thems are the olden days and things are different now .

 

[crgildart]

Way easier to sell a pair of skis with demo bindings because potential buyers don't have to contemplate whether or not their boots will fit without having to drill new holes in the ski.

 

[CrystalRose]

I'm a big "what if" kind of person, to a fault sometimes.

What if I want to lend them out?
What if I don't like the recommended mounting point?
What if my BSL changes. I'm getting my first pair of boots and despite my best efforts they may be too large just because they're my first pair. If I then get a smaller boot, I wouldn't have to worry about remounting the bindings. There seems to be a finite number of times you can do so. Though by that time I might want new skis altogether....

Basically I thought I would be eliminating a bunch of what if factors.

 

[Philpug]

I'm a big "what if" kind of person, to a fault sometimes.

What if I want to lend them out?
What if I don't like the recommended mounting point?
What if my BSL changes. I'm getting my first pair of boots and despite my best efforts they may be too large just because they're my first pair. If I then get a smaller boot, I wouldn't have to worry about remounting the bindings. There seems to be a finite number of times you can do so. Though by that time I might want new skis altogether....

Basically I thought I would be eliminating a bunch of what if factors.

Here is your devils advocate, part tongue in cheek but there is a level of serious consideration.
What if I want to lend them out? Are you having the person have thier boots tested in the binding to make sure they are set according to their height, weight age, skier type?
What if I don't like the recommended mounting point? This is maybe the only one that has some merit.
What if my BSL changes? Most bindings (other than Look Pivots) have 10-20mm or range, enough for 1-2 boot sizes, I doubt you are off by 2 sizes.

 

[Monique]

I completely agree with you. I think the girls I used to debate about this with were old school and just put a blanket label on all demo bindings saying "nope heavy, must dome off demo skis or I can't buy" and didn't realize thems are the olden days and things are different now .

Generally speaking, I think people often form opinions and then never revisit them.

 

[crgildart]

Here is your devils advocate, part tongue in cheek but there is a level of serious consideration.
What if I want to lend them out? Are you having the person have thier boots tested in the binding to make sure they are set according to their height, weight age, skier type?
.

Humm, I've been to a couple demo tents in the more recent stages of my life and don't recall taking my boot off to have them test the binding before telling me the skis were ready for me to try. Should they be doing this at demo tents as well??

 

[surfsnowgirl]

Humm, I've been to a couple demo tents in the more recent stages of my life and don't recall taking my boot off to have them test the binding before telling me the skis were ready for me to try. Should they be doing this at demo tents as well??

Me too. When I bought my Meier skis at Killlington this past April the guy asked me what my BSL was and what did I want for a din. He checked my boot in there once he threw them down on the snow but I never had to take a boot off.

 

[Uncle-A]

Me too. When I bought my Meier skis at Killlington this past April the guy asked me what my BSL was and what did I want for a din. He checked my boot in there once he threw them down on the snow but I never had to take a boot off.

I remember going to a Demo Day that was only for ski shop employees, I think it was sponsored by Fisher Skis. When getting fitted the tech setup the BSL and asked for my weight and skiing level I turned to him and said we are all shop employees if we do not know our own DIN we should not be here, just set it on 7 and I will be fine. The Demo bindings worked well I did not feel any difference in performance. Admittedly I did not fall that day so I do not know about release and I could not tell you what brand Demo binding it was that I used maybe Marker but not sure. I did own a Demo binding years before and also had positive results from it but that was a Solomon Demo that was a bit heavy but when you are young and strong it did not matter.

 

[Philpug]

Humm, I've been to a couple demo tents in the more recent stages of my life and don't recall taking my boot off to have them test the binding before telling me the skis were ready for me to try. Should they be doing this at demo tents as well??

Me too. When I bought my Meier skis at Killlington this past April the guy asked me what my BSL was and what did I want for a din. He checked my boot in there once he threw them down on the snow but I never had to take a boot off.

Demo bindings should be tested yearly by a shop, they do not need to be tested each time. When tested they should get marked if there are any variances

 

[dlague]

Theoretically you shouldn't because you are using them to demo a ski, not to demo the binding, they should be like a good umpire, seen but not there to sway the outcome. We are in age of having the best demo bindings ever which makes our job testing skis a helluva lot easier.

so true!

 

[KingGrump]

I remember going to a Demo Day that was only for ski shop employees, I think it was sponsored by Fisher Skis. When getting fitted the tech setup the BSL and asked for my weight and skiing level I turned to him and said we are all shop employees if we do not know our own DIN we should not be here, just set it on 7 and I will be fine. The Demo bindings worked well I did not feel any difference in performance. Admittedly I did not fall that day so I do not know about release and I could not tell you what brand Demo binding it was that I used maybe Marker but not sure. I did own a Demo binding years before and also had positive results from it but that was a Solomon Demo that was a bit heavy but when you are young and strong it did not matter.

When I used to do shop demos in SVT, we were given a card with our name, BSL & DIN setting on it. Most of us have a preferred DIN setting that is not chart friendly.

As Phil said, the current crop of demo bindings are really sweet. Most of them have figured out how to get rid of the excess stand height and weight. A few of them are even tool-less. The new Warden demo looks really slick.

Weight wise, the new demos are pretty close to the regulars. Anyway, weight of the ski/binding combo is only a consideration if the skier still pick up the ski to initiate their turns.

 

[pete]

as others noted, the demo gives you some play in fore/aft, alternate boot plate size and ability to share .. sell.

I liked em primarily as my kids (and spouse) could migrate across skies or try out different ones. We put few days on a ski yearly so once one kid outgrew the length, the next was in line to use em. Yes, they were getting older by the last kids use but they were nicer skis that would see maybe 10-15 days on em each year.

Given the kids had varying foot sizes due to growth, it made it far easier to accept a ski would be used maybe 2yrs for each kid.

however too, we've had a good share of fixed bindings and as noted, they too adj to a degree for boot size.

depending on brand, one can pull the heal or toe off if going into the bar .. less risk of it disappearing

 

[Jim McDonald]

depending on brand, one can pull the heal or toe off if going into the bar .. less risk of it disappearing

...presses Like button

 

[DanoT]

The Op asked about the Tyrolia Attack 13 demo vs non demo. Last season I skied on and set up customers on the Attack 11 and Attack 13 demo. I have not skied the retail version but did examine the 11 toe piece carefully.

The demo toe is attached to a plate which is then screwed to the ski with 2 pairs of screws about 4 inches apart.

I am going from memory but the toe piece for the non demo Attack 11 (not sure about Attack 13) has 2 screws and 2 tabs on the front of the toe piece which hooks into a "piece" attached to the ski with 2 screws in front of the toe piece. This means there are 4 screws attaching the toe piece to the ski, but the " tabs" are actually a hinge point.

The above is the biggest difference between the demo and non demo Attack bindings. I think this means that the non demo binding allows the ski to flex more evenly on more of a symmetrical arc, while the demo toe plate causes a flat spot when the ski is flexed. That said, I know I am not enough of a finesse skier to notice any difference so I will get the demo binding.

 

[oldschoolskier]

I see demo bindings as the alternative to a system binding that gives you easy BSL adjustment. As such I bought this for my daughter several years back (thinking her foot may grow, thank god not) for a good price.

Otherwise I prefer a more dedicated mount and steer away from demo or system setups.

 

[Core2]

Way easier to sell a pair of skis with demo bindings because potential buyers don't have to contemplate whether or not their boots will fit without having to drill new holes in the ski.

This is my reason to get skis with demo bindings. Throw em on ebay if I don't like them or after they've been through the rock fields a few times and you can at least recoup some of your money. If I know I want to keep skis for years to come, like my Enforcers, I go with hard mounted.

 

[Philpug]

Demo bindings are a double edge sword when it comes to resale, not all buyers do not think as we do here and think they are old rental skis and saw a life that was that of a New York City Cab.

 

[PTskier]

Some makes & models of hard mounted bindings have little boot length adjustment. That's a problem when new boots have a different sole length. Sure, move the bindings, but don't get the screw holes so close together that the screw hold is weakened.

System bindings like the Head/Tyrolia PRD work well for full length & position adjustment, and several brake widths are available. But--separate demo bindings like the Tyrolia Attack 13 make it easier to shim the toe or heel to get the delta that works best for you.

I like the idea of slipping off the toes during lunch on the hill as security. I wouldn't trust it outside a bar at the base...some ski thieves don't know what they're stealing, they just steal it.

For travel, bring two pair of skis for different conditions, but identical bindings--just one set of bindings to save room & weight, and the brakes that fit. I slip my Head PRX bindings off to put the weight & bulk into a different bag to meet airline weight restrictions.

So I can't buy just Attack demo rails? Or PRX rails? Ah, man, that would make life easier.