Yes, you are. While I don't have a Warden Demo in front of me, it will be two flip levers, one of the toe and one on the heel then adjust fore and anf to match your BSL. The Warden Demo is a really good design and you will be happy with them.
-
For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.
Demo Binding Choices
- Thread starter MattD
- Start date
I get that. The BSL adjustment is easy and tool free. The question is about what to do if you adjust the BSL and then the forward pressure indicator is outside of the "OK" range. Can you just slide the heel or toe one notch front or back to fine tune the pressure? I imagine this will do the trick...it's just seems less precise than the screw adjustments I've seen on non-demo bindings.
Usually the heel unit is moved to get the FPI (forward pressure indicator) to fall within the acceptable range of the indicator.
You can also move the toe unit fore and aft to play with mount point.
I don't feel the lack of a forward pressure adjustment screw make for an inferior binding. Lots of bindings are not designed with them from the start. The Tyrolia attack series comes to mind.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2018
- Posts
- 112
Alright, let's resuscitate this one.
I'm looking to put a pair of demo bindings on my 89mm Scott Missions (praise be to Garth Bimble on TGR for the charity), mainly so that I can play with the mounting point and so that my brother can ski on them from time to time.
These boards will mostly be used in crud conditions and a fair amount of moguls.
I'm terrified of knee injuries, so I most importantly want the clamps to be as knee friendly as possible. I understand there are two variables to consider here, elasticity and vertical toe release (although some sources indicate vertical release is unwanted for moguls?). A secondary consideration would be for minimal delta and lowest stack height.
From what I can tell, my options are:
Tyrolia Attack 13s (no vertical toe release)
Salomon STH2 (awfully tall)
Salomon Warden
Marker Griffon (I don't care if they're hard to clip into)
Look PX
I'm sure I'm missing some nuances though, so please educate me.
I'm looking to put a pair of demo bindings on my 89mm Scott Missions (praise be to Garth Bimble on TGR for the charity), mainly so that I can play with the mounting point and so that my brother can ski on them from time to time.
These boards will mostly be used in crud conditions and a fair amount of moguls.
I'm terrified of knee injuries, so I most importantly want the clamps to be as knee friendly as possible. I understand there are two variables to consider here, elasticity and vertical toe release (although some sources indicate vertical release is unwanted for moguls?). A secondary consideration would be for minimal delta and lowest stack height.
From what I can tell, my options are:
Tyrolia Attack 13s (no vertical toe release)
Salomon STH2 (awfully tall)
Salomon Warden
Marker Griffon (I don't care if they're hard to clip into)
Look PX
I'm sure I'm missing some nuances though, so please educate me.
Last edited:
Why Griffons and not Squires? If you are worried about knees, why do you need all that extra DIN? I've had good luck with my Schizio Squires.
I also got some Tyrolia Railflex that were quite user friendly. Again, lower DIN as I prefer light weight and lower prices.
Do exercises and quad tighteners for your knees. Modern bindings are reasonably good at preventing injury (and pre release).
Experimenting with binding placement will educate you on ski characteristics, improve your skills and just be fun. Bindings that let me fine tune performance (by placement) are very cool.
Eric
I also got some Tyrolia Railflex that were quite user friendly. Again, lower DIN as I prefer light weight and lower prices.
Do exercises and quad tighteners for your knees. Modern bindings are reasonably good at preventing injury (and pre release).
Experimenting with binding placement will educate you on ski characteristics, improve your skills and just be fun. Bindings that let me fine tune performance (by placement) are very cool.
Eric
Lets educate you...
Tyrolia Attack2 13s---these and the Look are the tallest of the demos
Tyrolia Attack 13s (old)--low stack height
Salomon STH2 --no demo option
Salomon Warden -- lowest of the stack heights
Marker Griffon (I don't care if they're hard to clip into)-lowest of the stack heights
Look PX--tallest of the stack heights.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2018
- Posts
- 112
Thanks, teach! I'm dutifully taking notes.
In the interest of safe knees, do you know which of these models has vertical and/or diagonal toe release? Do you know which models have the greatest and least degree of elasticity?
The Look's with the longitudinal toe has the most elasticity, all of the lateral spring toes are a bit quicker in return to center at the cost of elasticity. As far as safety, all are about the same when set properly. The Look is probably the best in multi directional release from the toe but there is no wa to actually measure that. Remember, as well built as bindings are, they are pretty dumb and only know the forces that are put into them. Most knee injuries are from rearward falls, which is more downward pressue in the heel verses upward pressure in the toe, a binding cannot sense that downward heel pressure.
Last edited:
With all the love that Pivots get with longitudinal toes, I wonder why Look demos don't get more. I mean, it seems the toe is what folks like about Attacks and Markers, not necessarily the heels.
Good question. The Look skies very well but the reason I woudl say is because we see Attacks more available and the Looks jsut on Dynastar/Rossignol products. The love of the Attack demo started with the previous generation which acutally was mich lower but when they went to the AT toe, the Attack2 is w/in a MM in height of the Look. Like the Attack2 living off of the previous bindings generation, so is the Look, but not in a agood way, the previous Look demo had a significant amount of disconnect where the new one is much better. The SPX heel is very solid with a good amount of elasticity. I like the Look best on narrow skis but as they get wider, I prefer to be closer to the deck, that is one of the attributes that we like of the Pivot, it has one of the lowest stack heights.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2018
- Posts
- 112
My brother is the only other person who would ever ride these skis, and while I'm on the shrimpy side (5'11" & 165lbs) and would be perfectly happy on some lighter binders, he is not (6'3", 275 lbs) and would be at the upper end of the Squires.
Bummer, so neither of these are what I'm probably looking for.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2018
- Posts
- 112
Very good point, thanks.
Ok, last question: how do these demo bindings rank in terms of delta (with minimal being the preference)?
All are very minimal with Marker being a slight negative.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2018
- Posts
- 112
What would you recommend for a ski that's somewhere in-between, say at 89mm?
Slight negative! Wow... I didn't know bindings even approached that. Which I guess is a clear indicator of how much binding education I need...
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2018
- Posts
- 114
Does anybody happen to know screw dimensions (length and head diameter) and head profile for Attack demos? I’m looking to do some inserts and Binding Freedom doesn’t have the info. Thanks a lot!
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2018
- Posts
- 114
Binding Freedom lists the dimensions of the non-demo Attack mounting screws. @Philpug or @dawgcatching, do you know if the demos use the same mounting screws?
Different toes, heels are the same.
What's the preferred demo binding now?
I bought a pair of Blossom Whiteouts (176 cm) last year that were mounted with a Head PRD 12 binding. I had never played with binding position but the ski impressed me after I moved the binding forward 3 notches, until then it was not a "WOW" ski. I have a Z-90 (174 cm) mounted with a Look Pivot 12 that skis like the Whiteout did before I moved the binding position (feels long, slow turn initiation) so I'd like to remove the Pivot and put on an adjustable binding. I thought I would just buy an Attack 13 demo but am now wondering if there is something the experts on the forum would recommend now that the stand height on the Tyrolia is higher. Is there a demo binding with holes that match the toe or heel of the Pivot?
I'm 5'8", 165 lbs and usually set my din at 6.5. I ski most of the year in the east.
I bought a pair of Blossom Whiteouts (176 cm) last year that were mounted with a Head PRD 12 binding. I had never played with binding position but the ski impressed me after I moved the binding forward 3 notches, until then it was not a "WOW" ski. I have a Z-90 (174 cm) mounted with a Look Pivot 12 that skis like the Whiteout did before I moved the binding position (feels long, slow turn initiation) so I'd like to remove the Pivot and put on an adjustable binding. I thought I would just buy an Attack 13 demo but am now wondering if there is something the experts on the forum would recommend now that the stand height on the Tyrolia is higher. Is there a demo binding with holes that match the toe or heel of the Pivot?
I'm 5'8", 165 lbs and usually set my din at 6.5. I ski most of the year in the east.
No. You *may* be able to find some older race plates (increased stack height!) that you could move Pivots for/aft on. Usually in 1cm increments.
Favorite demo bindings right now:
- Tyrolia Attack (AT if you need it) demo
- Warden MNC demo
The Head/Tyrolia bindings that I've seen each notch is 4 mm. cmack's 3 notches are 1.2 cm.
Many of the rail bindings, not specifically demo or rental bindings, allow movement forward or back of the ski's center mark while holding the same boot sole length. The one I have that doesn't is an Elan-labeled Tyrolia system binding.
In the older comments about toe bindings with other that just lateral release, you can tell by looking at the toe piece. If the part the boot engages in has separate wings, then you may get release at angled-upward force. This Tyrolia is one example. You can see it by backing the spring all the way off and moving the wings by hand. Will it really help in a twisting fall?
A friend with fragile knees is using the newest version of the KneeBindings. So far so good--no inadvertent releases, and no excessive forces on his knees. The KneeBinding has a lateral heel release as well as the usual vertical heel & lateral toe releases.
Many of the rail bindings, not specifically demo or rental bindings, allow movement forward or back of the ski's center mark while holding the same boot sole length. The one I have that doesn't is an Elan-labeled Tyrolia system binding.
In the older comments about toe bindings with other that just lateral release, you can tell by looking at the toe piece. If the part the boot engages in has separate wings, then you may get release at angled-upward force. This Tyrolia is one example. You can see it by backing the spring all the way off and moving the wings by hand. Will it really help in a twisting fall?
A friend with fragile knees is using the newest version of the KneeBindings. So far so good--no inadvertent releases, and no excessive forces on his knees. The KneeBinding has a lateral heel release as well as the usual vertical heel & lateral toe releases.
Last edited:
