• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

Demo Binding Choices

James

Out There
Instructor
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
24,449
Griffons are despised by many. Short bsl's have a real problem getting in. Griffon was the first binding I ever had fail a check.
 

tch

What do I know; I'm just some guy on the internet.
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
1,541
Location
New England
Resurrecting an old thread to ask a question: I just ordered Tyrolia Attack13 demos. When I went to Tyrolia's website to look for more info/mounting beta, I see that the demo binding "features an anchored toe". WHOA! Does this really mean the toe piece is anchored and immovable? Or is this just poor choice of words and perhaps bad translation, which is supposed to say that the toe piece is anchored on a track?

I want to be able to play with mount position -- slide my boot forward and back. Anchored toe won't permit this.
http://www.tyrolia.com/en/skibindings/rental/
 

Philpug

Notorious P.U.G.
Admin
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
42,624
Location
Reno, eNVy
Resurrecting an old thread to ask a question: I just ordered Tyrolia Attack13 demos. When I went to Tyrolia's website to look for more info/mounting beta, I see that the demo binding "features an anchored toe". WHOA! Does this really mean the toe piece is anchored and immovable? Or is this just poor choice of words and perhaps bad translation, which is supposed to say that the toe piece is anchored on a track?

I want to be able to play with mount position -- slide my boot forward and back. Anchored toe won't permit this.
http://www.tyrolia.com/en/skibindings/rental/
The toe moves.
 

Plai

Paul Lai
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Posts
1,965
Location
Silicon Valley
+1 the toe is on a track and moves. An earlier version (2013?) the toe was not on track and didn't move. I could find pictures of the nontracked version a couple of months ago, but not now.

Love the bindings, low stance and able to play with mount point. It's worth the extra coin to be able to find the sweet spot.
 

Philpug

Notorious P.U.G.
Admin
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
42,624
Location
Reno, eNVy
+1 the toe is on a track and moves. An earlier version (2013?) the toe was not on track and didn't move. I could find pictures of the nontracked version a couple of months ago, but not now.

Love the bindings, low stance and able to play with mount point. It's worth the extra coin to be able to find the sweet spot.
Plus, and this is most important to me, skis like the retail counterpart. When I am testing a ski, I do not want to feel that I have to think about the binding and if it is having a performance impact on the ski.
 

tch

What do I know; I'm just some guy on the internet.
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
1,541
Location
New England
Thanx!
 

Yo Momma

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Posts
1,777
Location
NEK Vermont
Still not really understanding the past Marker "Hate" ........... if we are referencing the "Schizo's"............... I've NEVER had any issues w/ the Griffon Shizos.............. no issues stepping in ........ releasing, mounting............ nothing............. a total non-issue after many years of use and abuse............ in fact, I've never had a binding I've had an issue w/ other than Knee Binding............ NOT going there in this thread Ha ha ha ........ but all seem pretty bullet proof so far and I'm 200 - 220 lbs @ 8.5 -9 din setting............GF has the Squires (no Schizo) and as long as she taps her boots w/ her pole and gently scrapes the bottom of the boot on the toe piece ( a three second process per boot, we both always do prior to entry) neither have had any issue.

With the Marker non Schizo, I've noticed that sometimes you need to reduce the toe pressure by one or two clicks and entry becomes perfect and has not affected our release at all (many falls as proof on this one). I think the standard fwd toe press on these may be set too high by many shops. One or two clicks back and they have been cherry for me............. for many years............
 

mdf

entering the Big Couloir
Skier
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
7,217
Location
Boston Suburbs
I have Marker Griffon Demos because they came on my skis (purchased used). I'm guessing they are the 2015 model.

I find them a little fussier to adjust and step into than the non-demo Salomon STH or Z-whatever families I always used before, but not egregiously so.
 
Last edited:

ARL67

Invisible Airwaves Crackle With Life
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Jan 15, 2016
Posts
1,218
Location
Thornbury, ON, Canada
Ya I don't getter Marker hate either, having owned many Griffon & Jester demos, and a Jester Schizo.
The earlier Schizos had a problem with the plastic tab that keeps the cables together, but long since resolved.

My BSL is 316 and I weigh 170 lbs so I don't / won't refute the problems of smaller BSL's & lighter weight skiers getting into them.

That said, I am now an Attack 13 Demo guy and have no reason to consider any other binding at this point.
 

laine

I ski like a girl. Fast.
Skier
Joined
Jul 31, 2016
Posts
729
Location
Palm Springs
I never realized that bindings might behave differently/have issues at varying boot lengths. I'm researching bindings now, BSL 266 on Santa Ana 100s, size 161. I'm around 122-ish lbs, so don't need a huge DIN. I was considering both Marker Squires, Griffons and Tyrolias Attack 13s. I don't need something super burly or want something very heavy. Apparently, there's some Marker hate? I don't know much about it, but would like to know if there are problems with Griffons and smaller skiers. Looks like folks here are Tyrolia fans. I know there are also Attack 12 and 11s - is there any substantive difference on these aside from the DINs? Is there a reason I'd want to go with a 13 over an 11? Thanks!
 

Philpug

Notorious P.U.G.
Admin
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
42,624
Location
Reno, eNVy
I never realized that bindings might behave differently/have issues at varying boot lengths. I'm researching bindings now, BSL 266 on Santa Ana 100s, size 161. I'm around 122-ish lbs, so don't need a huge DIN. I was considering both Marker Squires, Griffons and Tyrolias Attack 13s. I don't need something super burly or want something very heavy. Apparently, there's some Marker hate? I don't know much about it, but would like to know if there are problems with Griffons and smaller skiers. Looks like folks here are Tyrolia fans. I know there are also Attack 12 and 11s - is there any substantive difference on these aside from the DINs? Is there a reason I'd want to go with a 13 over an 11? Thanks!
Attack 13. Out of the bindings that you mentioned they cover all the bases. Light, minimal delta, Easy to get into with a short BSL. Check, check, check.

It is not "Marker hate" but knowing the limitations of a binding in certain applications and the Griffon and Squire are difficult to enter with a short BSL of a lighter skier like yourself. The reason to go with the 13 over the 11 is the delta of the binding, the difference between the toe and the heel heights are dramatic which is multiplied when you bring a 266mm boot into the mix. The 13 also has a better heel, you are not buying a bigger spring when you are going from the 11 to the 13, but a better built binding err interface between your boot and the ski.
 

KingGrump

Most Interesting Man In The World
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
12,205
Location
NYC
The bindings for us are usually Griffon, Jester and Attack 13. Mix of demo & retail models. All without step in issues.

Mamie is 5’/1”, 125 lb, 260 BSL. I usually put griffons on her skis. No issue stepping in ever. Different story with first gen Squires. Had to replace them with griffons. Still have 2 pairs floating in the back of the binding shelf somewhere.

She had 2 pair s of Cham 87 – one with griffon and the other with attack 13. She much preferred the pair with the griffon bindings. Had to replace the Attack with a pair of griffon. That made her happy. She also has a pair of 97s with Attack 13 – no issues. Now I just put griffons on her new skis.
 

Ken_R

Living the Dream
Skier
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Posts
5,775
Location
Denver, CO
I never realized that bindings might behave differently/have issues at varying boot lengths. I'm researching bindings now, BSL 266 on Santa Ana 100s, size 161. I'm around 122-ish lbs, so don't need a huge DIN. I was considering both Marker Squires, Griffons and Tyrolias Attack 13s. I don't need something super burly or want something very heavy. Apparently, there's some Marker hate? I don't know much about it, but would like to know if there are problems with Griffons and smaller skiers. Looks like folks here are Tyrolia fans. I know there are also Attack 12 and 11s - is there any substantive difference on these aside from the DINs? Is there a reason I'd want to go with a 13 over an 11? Thanks!

Forget the Griffons. A friend of mine had to get the Griffons out. She could not step into the Griffons at all. Most times needed help. Coincidently it was on Santa Anas 161's and she weights about 125-130. The Attacks would be perfect for you IMHO. I love the Griffons but if you weight less than 160 and or have a short BSL forget it. They have an awesome solid feel but the step in pressure is an issue for light skiers.

I personally do not love the extra weight of demo bindings but being able to adjust them fore & aft is a huge deal for a lot of folks.
 

Yo Momma

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Posts
1,777
Location
NEK Vermont
Guys I have to disagree on the short BSL thing w/ the Markers........ my GF (Atomic Hawx BSL 267mm wgt 115 -120 lbs).......has never had an issue w/ her Squires other than the very first day after the shop set the toe pressure. I remember she specifically told me "I can't get into these!" I went over to the tool rack at our ski area, I relieved it by one or two clicks and now no issues at all ............ ever....... during the past several years......... never had to touch them again and no release issues at all.

Same thing happened w/ her Tour F10's. I had to reset the toe pressure............. my Griffons and Schizo's and Tour F12's no issues at all after I checked the setup (buss card under the toe/friction plate interface, toe press, DIN check, fresh lithium grease in the right spots). In fact I just remounted my F12's the other night, on to my 2016 Mantras and skied the hell out of them w/ my Alpine boots........ I'll reset them back to my WTR touring boots later......... again clicked in and out w/o issue............ I did experiment w/ the toe pressure a bit on the hill and could get the binding to not click in properly if I jammed the toe pressure fwd........... back a few clicks and problem solved and plenty of crashes and proper releases to test the systems over the years! Uggh!

Shops are setting them too tight. Marker needs to release a mounting update.....as their rep continues to get trashed....IMHO........ that being said........... if they made FKS's w/ a Schizo setup......... Bye bye Marker for me!
 
Last edited:

ARL67

Invisible Airwaves Crackle With Life
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Jan 15, 2016
Posts
1,218
Location
Thornbury, ON, Canada
Attack 13. Out of the bindings that you mentioned they cover all the bases. Light, minimal delta, Easy to get into with a short BSL. Check, check, check.

It is not "Marker hate" but knowing the limitations of a binding in certain applications and the Griffon and Squire are difficult to enter with a short BSL of a lighter skier like yourself. The reason to go with the 13 over the 11 is the delta of the binding, the difference between the toe and the heel heights are dramatic which is multiplied when you bring a 266mm boot into the mix. The 13 also has a better heel, you are not buying a bigger spring when you are going from the 11 to the 13, but a better built binding err interface between your boot and the ski.

^^^ a perfect reply from Phil

The added weight of the Attack 13 Demo, or even Squire/Griffon/Jester Demo, is neglible IMO.
The all-metal toe plate on the Attack 13 demo weighs 140 grams each ( 4.9 ounces, or 0.31 lb each )
The Marker demos will weigh even less as the toe plates are mostly plastic.
You will have much more weight variation in merely choosing between whatever Tyrolia, Marker, Salomon, Look / Rossignol, etc
Now if you we are talking about cheap system-demo-bindings that are on a typical rental fleet ski, than Yes those are heavy in comparison.
 

Philpug

Notorious P.U.G.
Admin
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
42,624
Location
Reno, eNVy
^^^ a perfect reply from Phil

The added weight of the Attack 13 Demo, or even Squire/Griffon/Jester Demo, is neglible IMO.
The all-metal toe plate on the Attack 13 demo weighs 140 grams each ( 4.9 ounces, or 0.31 lb each )
The Marker demos will weigh even less as the toe plates are mostly plastic.
You will have much more weight variation in merely choosing between whatever Tyrolia, Marker, Salomon, Look / Rossignol, etc
Now if you we are talking about cheap system-demo-bindings that are on a typical rental fleet ski, than Yes those are heavy in comparison.
I will add stand height too, the Attack Demo is 23mm and the Griffon is 29mm (both at the toe).
 

laine

I ski like a girl. Fast.
Skier
Joined
Jul 31, 2016
Posts
729
Location
Palm Springs
Attack 13. Out of the bindings that you mentioned they cover all the bases. Light, minimal delta, Easy to get into with a short BSL. Check, check, check.

It is not "Marker hate" but knowing the limitations of a binding in certain applications and the Griffon and Squire are difficult to enter with a short BSL of a lighter skier like yourself. The reason to go with the 13 over the 11 is the delta of the binding, the difference between the toe and the heel heights are dramatic which is multiplied when you bring a 266mm boot into the mix. The 13 also has a better heel, you are not buying a bigger spring when you are going from the 11 to the 13, but a better built binding err interface between your boot and the ski.

Thanks everyone for all the info! As I research, I'm getting more and more skeptical of myself that I will actually make any adjustments around fore and aft mount point, so I'll likely just get the regular bindings. Given all the feedback and some digging in, it looks like the only differences between the Attack 12 and 13 are color, DIN range, and price, so I will go with one of those (likely determined by that last factor).
 

Yo Momma

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Posts
1,777
Location
NEK Vermont
Okay I'm getting curious about trying out the Attack 13 Demos........... but do they move up and down the ski like the Schizos or am I locked in position? Also do they come in an MNC version?
 

cantunamunch

Meh
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
21,901
Location
Behavioral sink
Given all the feedback and some digging in, it looks like the only differences between the Attack 12 and 13 are color, DIN range, and price, so I will go with one of those (likely determined by that last factor).

Does the Attack 12 have the same delta as the 13?
 

Plai

Paul Lai
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Posts
1,965
Location
Silicon Valley
Okay I'm getting curious about trying out the Attack 13 Demos........... but do they move up and down the ski like the Schizos or am I locked in position? Also do they come in an MNC version?

The Toe & Heel pieces are on tracks and can move up and down independent of each other. Can't remember the range of motion, but it's close to +-2.5cm or more. That said, I usually just go up or down the same number of clicks on both pieces. I don't have a lot of experience w/ bindings, but I'm *really* happy w/ mine.

I've no clue about MNC compatibility.
 

Sponsor

Staff online

Top