Demo Binding Choices

[MattD]

I often prefer demo bindings on skis to allow experimentation with "mounting point" to see affect on performance. I also like that they make it easier to have others try the skis, and makes them a little easier to sell to those with different boot sizes.

Lately, I have read several positive comments about the AAAtack 13 demo bindings. I personally am not a fan of the effort required to get in and out of the Marker Griffon demo set-up. For those with lots of binding experience/knowledge, what do you like most or least about the following:

- AAAtack 13 Demo Bindings

- PRD 12 Bindings

- PX 12 or SPX 12 Demo Bindings

I also recently saw a pair of Elan ESP 13.0 demo bindings ... I am assuming these were Tyrolia bindings, but what model are they related to?

Thanks for any clarity you can provide!

 

[DoryBreaux]

We use the Z12 demo bindings in the shop, but I personally LOVE the AAATack 13. Easy to adjust, low profile, feels very connected to the snow. Pretty much all the Pug test skis have them, and I have to say I might switch all my own personal skis over to Tyrolia.

 

[Philpug]

Attack 13 IS the binding of choice right now. Salomon/Atomic is coming out with a Warden demo for next season, that looks good but I am not sure it will unseed the Attack for stand height, adjustability and performance.

 

[kickerfrank]

I'm in the same boat as @DoryBreaux. We use Salomon Z 12s. They are easy to adjust and have separate toe and heel pieces. I've been hearing too many good things about Attack 13s that I may consider switching.

 

[DoryBreaux]

I'm in the same boat as @DoryBreaux. We use Salomon Z 12s. They are easy to adjust and have separate toe and heel pieces. I've been hearing too many good things about Attack 13s that I may consider switching.

Do it. I've never had a demo binding let me feel the snow the way they Tyrolia does.

 

[James]

Well the Marker Griffon blows. After it's love fest of a few years ago we now realize..not so much.

 

[Eleeski]

My tastes are weird so take my advice with a grain of salt. I like Fisher Price bindings (but I'm worried about the quality after they merge with Mattel).

I am a weight freak so I seek lightweight bindings. I prefer a fairly low DIN setting (7). I also like to play with binding position on the ski. For narrow skis, the Head Railflex bindings are nice - but honestly I don't have too many hours on that setup yet. These are limited to something like 80mm width.

For the wider skis, I like the Marker Schizio Squire bindings. I do have a few days on these and I actually find them easy to use and adjust. I don't have enough time on these to give an honest durability assessment but they have been great so far.

For fixed bindings, I liked the Salomon TI bindings but these did break on me a lot.

To me weight matters more than durability and my low DIN preference allows different choices.

Phil teases me for my Frankenbinding setups - deservedly so. Maybe you shouldn't listen to my advice.

Eric

 

[Jake M]

I actually have both PRD and AAAtack. I like the PRD but like the AAAtack better. Really easy to line up for in/out, just love the "feel" of them (hard to describe, non-technical I know). I used to have PX12 on my last set of skis......I found them a chore to unclick and very heavy I thought. Marker.....UGH.....don't get me started on those, you couldn't pay me to use them.

 

[Dwight]

I also recently saw a pair of Elan ESP 13.0 demo bindings ... I am assuming these were Tyrolia bindings, but what model are they related to?

Thanks for any clarity you can provide!

Yes they are Tyrolia.

I was told most bindings from Elan are Tyrolia, I have the ELX bindings a they work very well.

 

[MattD]

Does the AAAtack 13 have upward/diagonal release, or is it lateral release only?

 

[Brad J]

I have the PRD on thee pairs now and really like them, easy to adjust , good feel and smooth release

 

[MrFox]

AAAttack 13 100%. All my new skis have the Attack 13 binding on them. PRD12 isn't a bad binding, but allows some lateral/torsional play, so tipping a wider ski onto edge requires a bit more movement before the ski engages (i.e. the boot tilts in the binding a bit before engaging the ski). Attack 13 is a very direct connection, you roll up on edge and your skis respond instantly. No additional play. Great "feel" for whats happening at the ski. Just my 2 cents, but the Attacks are what I've been skiing on everything, I like how direct they are and how they "communicate" what's happening at the ski.

 

[MattD]

AAAttack 13 100%. All my new skis have the Attack 13 binding on them. PRD12 isn't a bad binding, but allows some lateral/torsional play, so tipping a wider ski onto edge requires a bit more movement before the ski engages (i.e. the boot tilts in the binding a bit before engaging the ski). Attack 13 is a very direct connection, you roll up on edge and your skis respond instantly. No additional play. Great "feel" for whats happening at the ski. Just my 2 cents, but the Attacks are what I've been skiing on everything, I like how direct they are and how they "communicate" what's happening at the ski.

Great info. Can you just clarify if the AAAtack 13 has lateral release only in the toepiece, or if there is any upward/diagonal release capability? Always want to keep the aging knees in mind!

 

[ski otter 2]

It sounds like the AAAttack 13 demo is a real improvement. To see if it is for me, my question is,

can you move the AAAttack 13 demo binding in small, consistent and stable increments, to test or vary your mount position easily?

Some background for this question:

I know a number of skiers who don't like demo bindings because of play or slip they can feel; skiers I respect.
For myself, I haven't noticed this with recent demo Markers or Schizos, so far, but I have noticed huge changes in how skis handle depending on mount position.

I switched to demo or Schizo bindings because I've discovered that mount position can make a really big difference in the performance of many skis. For some skis, there's a definite, single sweet spot that may well differ from skier to skier, depending on both skier size and skiing style, and ski length also. For other skis, I've found there are often two or even three "sweet spots" on the same ski, that give you, in effect, two or even three very different skis-in-one, so to speak - all of them excellent but different. This is especially true of wider skis, in my experience. (I can give examples, if anyone wants some.)

At first, I used the cheapest demos I could get a deal on: the Sol Z12s. But when I measured the boot center points for the different Z12 mount intervals or "steps," I found that the BC intervals are uneven and can vary from 4 mm up to 1 cm, so large and uneven that it's easy to miss the sweet spot(s) on a given ski.

From the Z12s, the Marker Royal demo family and Schizos are a real improvement. They share a common metal screw slot system for varying mounting point (and boot size, in the case of demos), a system that allows very small and stable screw turn adjustments to change the mounting position - you can make changes of a few mms easily, forward and back. And with the Schizos, a stubby pocket screw driver used at the lift top or bottom can let you experiment easily: one screw slot turn moves the toe and heal pieces together in tandem.
With this convenience I often vary mount position to fit different conditions and terrain, since by now I know how that will effect any given ski I'm using. Even small changes are often dramatic, effective and fun - depending on the ski.

With Marker demo bindings, the same procedure is still possible, except with two screw adjustments (toe and heel) and a forward pressure check also.

So, will the AAAttack 13 demos work for this also, with the same small, stable and consistent position changes possible?

 

[Philpug]

@ski otter 2, yes. You can move the bindings fore and aft without tools but you have to do the toe & heel individually.

 

[ARL67]

I am a longtime Marker demo-binding user, but only because it was really the only game in town.
I have always bought/hoarded them brand-new when I found them on sale.
I never had an issues with any of them, nor with a set of Jester Schizo's (newer gen) that I had.

Though the common complaint with most ANY demo binding is that they eventually develop "slop" in the tracks.
I have never experienced such, but then I don't own a ski long enough (many years) to develop slop.

With the availability of the Attack demo, it is now my Go-To demo-binding.
No complaints about my Marker Griffons & Jesters.
But I like the ease of adjustment with the levers so much better on the Attacks.
I can quickly change them in the Gondola or outside the lifts, no tools required
The metal track for the toe is also confidence inspiring.

As far stand-height, I don't have calipers here, but using a clear plastic ruler and eyeballing, I'd say my Attack demos have 1mm shorter stand-height than my Jester demos. That's nothing significant IMO. Has anyone actually measured them with calipers ?

The Attack demo increments are fixed at 4mm, both for the heel & toe pieces, per my clear plastic ruler. That is as fine as it gets.
The spring in the heel track provides the required forward pressure in case your BSL does not perfectly match the track increments.
The Markers with their worm-screw give you "infinite adjustment" , but I don't find that too necessary to have every mm available.

I have done a lot of demo-binding adjustment this winter on my DPS 106F (Jester demo) and BMX105-HP ( Attack demo).
You can feel that 4mm on the BMX105. A notch forward, or 1 or 2 notches back, changes how the tip engages, or the tip "flap" etc.
Depending on the snow you are dealt with that day, you can tweak the ski accordingly in a matter of 30 seconds.
One could call this over-thinking, as you can surely ski a ski "adequately" at any reasonable mount point, but why deny yourself the pleasure of having your skiing perfectly dialed in for you ? Demo-bindings all the way !


Pictures:

 

[Erik Timmerman]

So until Look has a P15 demo, the Aaaatack will have to do, huh?

 

[ski otter 2]

Along the same lines, I've found quarter centimeter adjustments nice (on my Atomic Auto 116s and K2 Pettitor 120s and 102s, for instance. So I guess for wider skis that I like to move to different mount points, Schizos will have to do. One stumpy screw driver adjustment on the front ain't so bad.

The AAAttacks look good, though.

 

[Philpug]

The Royal bindings for next season will be tool less in the fore and aft adjustments and actually easier than the Tyrolia but we still have to do a double check for the forward pressure. I think the upcoming Warden demo will also be a very good alternative.

 

[Dana McMaster]

We use the Z12 demo bindings in the shop, but I personally LOVE the AAATack 13. Easy to adjust, low profile, feels very connected to the snow. Pretty much all the Pug test skis have them, and I have to say I might switch all my own personal skis over to Tyrolia.

How does the Attack 11 compare to the Attack 13? With a DIN of 6.5 I don't need the higher range if I can get the same quality with the 11 model.