Decisions Decisions.....a 99 or a 114?

[Tom K.]

I ski a number of days on a 184cm Monster88. If I'm not on a narrow race ski or cheater, I'm most often on that ski. If I were headed West, personally, I would think about a 184cm Monster98. I have skied it, and I like it. I have skied the Kore 105cm for a day. Interesting ski. I found it to be a lot of fun. It could be a great touring ski for me. I'm not sure if I'd love it as an everyday ski, though I am sure that 95% of those who demo it will love it. Same with the 93 and the 117. I'm an old school race bred guy.

Since the OP seems to have zeroed in on a choice, I'll ask if you'd elaborate on this statement.

I'm currently hashing my way through the Monster/Kore debate.......

 

[mikel]

I intend to buy Wagners when I retire. The wife and I are looking to move to the Nevada side of Tahoe. Still mulling over a topsheet design.......

The wife has decided to go the Wagner route.

 

[Philpug]

The wife has decided to go the Wagner route.

She has good taste.

 

[Ken_R]

Don't know if it has been mentioned but the Blizzard Rustler 10 is a ski I would also consider. Of the new skis from the mainstream brands it is the one I am most interested in along with the Head Kore series. (again, for me and where and how I ski)

 

[Muleski]

Since the OP seems to have zeroed in on a choice, I'll ask if you'd elaborate on this statement.

I'm currently hashing my way through the Monster/Kore debate.......

Sure. I'll try to make it simple. I'm lucky to have a lot of skis in the ski room. I have a race background, and physically, I'm pretty solid. A fit 5'10", 210 lbs. Most of my skis days until a couple of years ago were in New England....hence my icon. I tend to ski with what you would describe as power rather than finesse. I've skied for all but two of my 60+ years, and I was what you would call an "elite" {I hate that word} racer in the day.

I have some connections with Blizzard, Head and Nordica. If I were buying skis ant close to retail, I might broaden my horizons, as I have had a lot of great ski days on other brands. Stockli, Fischer, Kastle.

I like a damp, heavy ski, with as traditional a shape as they make, and much traditional camber as possible. Exceptions are my "big" skis, which frankly spend more time out West. If I catch a rare fresh snow day {I almost hesitate to say powder} at home, I'm often on one of my Swiss Army knives......Bonafide or Enforcer.

When I'm on buffed, groomed, cruisers, here I tend to gravitate, I'm almost always on a 180cm Head I.speed Pro. When the snow is crudded up, leftover, and pretty dense, but not so deep, along with some groomed out, etc. I am almost always on a 184cm Monster88. The ski is amazingly solid. It blows through anything and it stays ON the snow. Powerful, yes. Playful, not so much. I love them. I also have a pair of Monster 98's.also a 184cm, and they live out west. Same use, but the snow is different, space more wide open, etc. No bigger Monsters for me.

My big skis are Blizzard Bocacious of various lengths. The ones that get the most use are the 186cm first generation. Even in bottomless, I like metal, and I ski as others say. "powerfully."

So this spring I was handed a pair of Kore 93's to try. The ski frankly surprised me, a lot. I was very skeptical as it's so light. But wow, the ski can do so much. It's got a really interesting flex. It has a much softer tip and tail than a Monster, and the tapered tip is entirely different. But the "middle of the ski" has some beef. For me, It does not truly carve like a Monster, But I guarantee that the majority of people skiing it will feel like it carves like a champ. What surprised me is that it still wants speed to carve. But not as much as a Monster.
In a one word contrast, considering that both are expert level skis, Monster is the power ski. Kore has a great dose of playfulness.

Monster wants to be grounded on the snow. Kore will be playful off the surface. Monsters do no like moguls, The Kore in my two runs was much more fun. In tight spaces, I would say Kore. Busting through most stuff...Kore feels like it will work well. Monster excels. To be honest....real carving on harder surfaces, IMO, Monster by a wide margin.

The lightness of the ski intrigues me. I have skied the 105 one day. It was pretty darn good and versatile. For me it could never be a firm snow, or in bounds all mountain ski. In 8" plus of fresh, I think it could be a lot of fun. I'm interested in trying a pair with tech bindings, and some skins. It just "feels" like the light weight could be a huge plus on the way up, and the ski could be really great on the way down. I'd love to try one. But I will not try to get one just to do that.

Dunno if that helps or confuses things? Very personal opinions. I have had fiends who, without asking my opinion, have bought "my skis", and then realized that they were not for them. The Monster is a pretty versatile ski, for the right guy. I think the Kore will appeal to a wider audience, and be a better tool for most in a wider range of terrain and conditions.

If you are considering either, and have not skied them, I would demo BOTH.

 

[David Chaus]

To simplify the discussion, it sounds like what the OP wants is a OSQ for trips to Utah. So you want enough versatility to qualify as "all mountain" and enough fun in enough of Utah's conditions to not feel like a bland all mountain, and enough power to feel confident taking it in challenging or fast conditions, and maneuverable enough to have fun in powder, should you encounter it.

Haven't tried all the skis mentioned, but the Renoun is the first that comes to mind, along with Stockli Stromrider. (I would also say a Fisher Motive 95, but sticking with current models here. Maybe ProMountain 95?) As Phil has noted, there are few bad choices and many good ones; he has also stated that the premium skis like Renoun, Stockli and Kastle offer a wider range of performance than most, they are excellent in many conditions and that's why they come at a premium.

 

[Muleski]

As Phil has noted, there are few bad choices and many good ones; he has also stated that the premium skis like Renoun, Stockli and Kastle offer a wider range of performance than most, they are excellent in many conditions and that's why they come at a premium.

That's a great point and observation. I have never skied a Renoun, but I have enough "intel" form others to know that it's very unique. I've skied some tremendous Stocklis and Kastles that covered that wide range of conditions. At one point, I had a deal with Stockli and the original Stormrider XL "Offroad" was an incredibly versatile ski. They have only improved the skis.

So many good skis.....but to be honest, not all of them.

In the custom world, it's hard to find a customer of Pete Wagner's who is not a raving fan. In the East, Parlor is making some great skis. Lots of choices.

My post ^^^^^ above was in response to the question of compare the Monster to the Kore. No more. And @Tom K. asked it because he felt that @PisteOff had pretty much zeroed in on a Renoun.
Which I think would be a much better option that either Head series...for him.

So many options.

 

[PisteOff]

Also of note, Reunion gives you a 100 day no questions asked return if you're not satisfied. It is a lot easier to spend $1,145.00 with that kind of return policy. I've bought skis I didn't like and spent months trying get half my money out of them on Ebay. So, IF I buy the Reunion's I will wait a few months so that the guarantee doesn't expire before I get to ride them a bunch.

 

[Muleski]

Also of note, Reunion gives you a 100 day no questions asked return if you're not satisfied. It is a lot easier to spend $1,145.00 with that kind of return policy. I've bought skis I didn't like and spent months trying get half my money out of them on Ebay. So, IF I buy the Reunion's I will wait a few months so that the guarantee doesn't expire before I get to ride them a bunch.

Which I have thought is just brilliant. I believe that Cyrus weighed in last season and explained that the number of returns was absolutely minimal. like less than a handful. I assume that he has a long list of people willing to "repurpose" those skis. HaHa.

But basically, from a marketing standpoint, that offer tells us that 99% of the customers must love the skis. Huge. Smart.

 

[PisteOff]

Which I have thought is just brilliant. I believe that Cyrus weighed in last season and explained that the number of returns was absolutely minimal. like less than a handful. I assume that he has a long list of people willing to "repurpose" those skis. HaHa.

But basically, from a marketing standpoint, that offer tells us that 99% of the customers must love the skis. Huge. Smart.

Agreed. You've basically nothing to lose.....

 

[dlague]

Also of note, Reunion gives you a 100 day no questions asked return if you're not satisfied. It is a lot easier to spend $1,145.00 with that kind of return policy. I've bought skis I didn't like and spent months trying get half my money out of them on Ebay. So, IF I buy the Reunion's I will wait a few months so that the guarantee doesn't expire before I get to ride them a bunch.

Good for you! They seem nice.

Still, spending that much to me is not worth it. There are so many good skis out there for low dollars. I hate to spend over $500 and I target $350. Granted I have to settle for last year's model but still new or a lightly used demo ski. I buy for an entire family so spending over $1000 is not feasible. Over the past year I have bought Volkl Ones with Attack 13 bindings with free mounting and shipping for $325 (skiessentials) for my son, then the Volkl 100Eights for my wife $300 (skiessentials) and a lightly used pair of Salomon Rockr 2 with Z12 bindings for $329 at Powder 7. The first two were part of the Volklpalooza sale - you are welcome Skiessentials.com !

 

[Castle Dave]

Maybe consider Line Supernatural 100. Here is my review and why it might work for you.
https://forum.pugski.com/threads/supernatural-100.4835/

 

[Muleski]

@dlague, fact is that we all have different ways of evaluating what equipment is "worth" to each of us. I know a number of tight fisted skiers who are contemplating buying Renouns, as one example, as they have been pretty much convinced that they ARE worth it. My older brother is about to buy a pair of Wagners for himself, and a second pair for his wife. He skis about 100 days a winter, and he just wants a pair. He has had deals for most of his adult ski life. He's done his research with Pete Wagner and he's 100% convinced. As are many others. I used to be able to buy Stockli at cost. That ship has sailed. Since I get Blizz, Nordica, or Head "at a very good price", That's my current wheelhouse. I might be able to stretch that to include Fischer and Volkl, but I am not pushing.

Having said that, A lot of people that I respect do feel that the premium skis are just better, in almost all conditions. Our daughter was a high level racer, who was provided with great equipment by her ski company. She is used to very good skis. She skied for three days last winter on a 181cm Kastle FX95 HP, that had been properly set up and she was just raving about the ski. Enough to buy them....not for her. Yet.

It's pretty interesting, as if you buy wisely at the end of the season, you can find pretty much anything left over at half of MRSP {or less}. But the premium stuff does work. Or most does. Some of the worst skis that I, and both of our adult kids {who work in the business}, have skied is a so called premium ski....or at least marketed as one. We literally don't know a single person who would buy it. My wife is a darn good skier, and she lasted two runs on it. If she could have given it back after one, she would have. We actually returned it at the end of a couple of days, so as to not really disappoint the source, who is a friend.

So many good skis, and just a few dogs. But....it all depends. Buying $1200 skis cold turkey is risky, and Renoun's warranty is brilliant. I am led to believe that the skis are so well accepted that he gets very few back. Almost none. May get some returned where people blew the size, and either upsize or downsize later.

I'm cheap, but I'm convinced that some of the premium skis kill it these days.

 

[PisteOff]

Good for you! They seem nice.

Still, spending that much to me is not worth it. There are so many good skis out there for low dollars. I hate to spend over $500 and I target $350. Granted I have to settle for last year's model but still new or a lightly used demo ski. I buy for an entire family so spending over $1000 is not feasible. Over the past year I have bought Volkl Ones with Attack 13 bindings with free mounting and shipping for $325 (skiessentials) for my son, then the Volkl 100Eights for my wife $300 (skiessentials) and a lightly used pair of Salomon Rockr 2 with Z12 bindings for $329 at Powder 7. The first two were part of the Volklpalooza sale - you are welcome Skiessentials.com !

Oh I get it....I've bought many a pair on Ebay, Sideline Swap, and previous year models from Skis.com, Evo, etc. All my race stock minus the one Redster GS pair (which is 6 pair of SL, GS, SG, and DH skis) are all pre-owned. I just bought a bunch of used Atomic Race bindings from a fellow Epic (now pugster) last winter for my used Atomic SG and DH skis. My Souls we're demo boards. My Pursuit HP's, my sons E80's, and my wife's Sassy 7's were new off the rack. Every other ski I've bought over the years was a demo or lightly used or previous years clearance. I completely get it. I've just managed after 35 years in my profession to have put myself in position both personally and professionally that I am now able to afford to spoil myself from time to time. Skiing and golf are my primary free time passions. The little free time I get is very dear to me so I like to have the right gear when I go out and I like to go to nice places to enjoy that time. This is an important and special purchase for me. That is why I am soliciting all the input from everyone here. I've been around Epic and now Pug for several years. I value the opinions around here more than anywhere else. Like everyone here knows, having the right set up can take a good experience and elevate it to a near religious experience. (for lack of a better or term) I love to ski and I want a ski to love in varied conditions. I lack that. It has a lot of value to me therefore I am willing to spend a reasonable amount of money to have it. If I buy the Renoun and it is that ski than it is money well spent to me. If you spend thousands a year to go on a few ski trips and your unsatisfied on your gear than you've kind of wasted your money or at the least you didn't maximize your return on investment. I don't necessarily like to spend my time non stop demoing skis. I don't like to spend my time struggling in conditions that my two go to skis can't crossover into. My skiing has broadened dramatically over the past 5 years since I got my son involved in the sport and realized how much I loved and missed it. So when I go to Utah, or Cali, or Colorado, or wherever I go outside of Michigan, I want to click in and go. If I want to specifically carve groomers I have that covered in spades. If I want to surf a deep drop I've a ski for that too. I don't have that ski that I can just click into, jump on the lift, and it doesn't matter which way I go to get down. I want to have the same symbiotic relationship with it that I have with a couple of my other skis (in their niche). So, if the Reunion is it, a grand is little to me. If it is not, they'll buy it back. Can't go wrong. I'm liking it more every minute.

 

[ScottB]

Great thread everyone, it is giving me some perspective on my "ultimate quiver quest". I am a New Englander and I pretty much line up with Muleski's perspective, especially since I ski Sugarloaf a fair amount. I am also a clyde, 6'4", 240lbs. I am a bit bigger than Pisteoff, but I think we are in the same league. I also have a race background and consider my skiing style as power, really powerful due to my size, but I can ski any technique a situation or ski requires. About 5 or 6 years ago I gave up my 1 ski quiver 205cm slalom race ski and I now own about 7 pairs of skis. Rosi WC slalom, Blizzard WC GS, Kastle MX78, Salomon X-drive 8.8 FS, Liberty Origin 96, Ski Logik Charriot (101cm), and Ski Logik Depth Hoar (142cm).

I am going out to Breckenridge for a week this year and I am going through a similar debate in my head as Pisteoff. I have skied out west a lot, and typically its soft snow and sometimes deep. I love Utah powder. With my current quiver I would like to take two skis, the Salomon Xdirve and the Depth Hoar. The XDrives will ski anything from ice to 6" of fresh on any terrain. Very good hard snow choice for an all mountain ski and can handle any depth of snow, really, but not playful at all. The powder ski (Depth Hoar) is like skiing on a trampoline for me, especially in 6in+ of fresh snow, so much fun. They aren't fun on groomers, even soft ones, but they do great in any kind of chop. I would not want to take either ski as a 1 ski quiver to Breck., unless I knew the conditions were hardpack.

My one ski quiver all mountain ski is the Liberty Origin 96. Its very rockered, and very stiffly cambered in the middle and softens a lot towards the ends. It actually does very well on hard pack and very well in deep snow. It is also pretty good in the trees. I put it out there a my suggestion to Pisteoff for his elusive one ski West Coast trip quiver. I don't want to take two skis on the plane, although I might change my mind, so I will probably take the Liberty.

Having sung the praises of the Liberty, I will now get really picky. The Liberty's don't float me anywhere near as well as my Depth Hoars (duh... I am on top of the snow with those and really like it). The Liberty's tip planes up really well and the tails sink a fair amount. Someone lighter will get a lot more float than me and the Liberty will work even better for them in deep snow. So to really "optimize" a West Coast OSQ for powder (I am an eternal optimist about snow conditions) I feel I need to go wider, but stay with a similar style ski (not my normal racer style). I am considering a new ski purchase for this trip (hence I can empathize with Pisteoff) and have been looking at the DPS Wailer 112 cm ski. Pretty similar shape, but just more plump and more float. Probably will give up some hard snow performance, but if conditions really suck, I will rent a carving ski, which I feel much more able to find a good one in a rental shop that will fit me.

So my viewpoint on a OSQ for West trips is it needs rocker and enough width to provide decent float if the snow is deep, but be cambered and stiff in the middle so it will carve decently and be fun on groomers. Easy swing weight would be helpful if you like trees (I do, Bracket Basin is my new favorite Eastern terrain [Sugarloaf reference]) and good edge grip for steep chutes and hardpack. I am not asking for much am I? Actually there a a number of skis that fit this category these days and the less you weigh the narrower you can go. I think Phil's list and the suggestions of others are very good. I have read a bit about the Renouns, but I don't think he has made a ski for some my size quite yet.

 

[dlague]

Oh I get it....I've bought many a pair on Ebay, Sideline Swap, and previous year models from Skis.com, Evo, etc. All my race stock minus the one Redster GS pair (which is 6 pair of SL, GS, SG, and DH skis) are all pre-owned. I just bought a bunch of used Atomic Race bindings from a fellow Epic (now pugster) last winter for my used Atomic SG and DH skis. My Souls we're demo boards. My Pursuit HP's, my sons E80's, and my wife's Sassy 7's were new off the rack. Every other ski I've bought over the years was a demo or lightly used or previous years clearance. I completely get it. I've just managed after 35 years in my profession to have put myself in position both personally and professionally that I am now able to afford to spoil myself from time to time. Skiing and golf are my primary free time passions. The little free time I get is very dear to me so I like to have the right gear when I go out and I like to go to nice places to enjoy that time. This is an important and special purchase for me. That is why I am soliciting all the input from everyone here. I've been around Epic and now Pug for several years. I value the opinions around here more than anywhere else. Like everyone here knows, having the right set up can take a good experience and elevate it to a near religious experience. (for lack of a better or term) I love to ski and I want a ski to love in varied conditions. I lack that. It has a lot of value to me therefore I am willing to spend a reasonable amount of money to have it. If I buy the Renoun and it is that ski than it is money well spent to me. If you spend thousands a year to go on a few ski trips and your unsatisfied on your gear than you've kind of wasted your money or at the least you didn't maximize your return on investment. I don't necessarily like to spend my time non stop demoing skis. I don't like to spend my time struggling in conditions that my two go to skis can't crossover into. My skiing has broadened dramatically over the past 5 years since I got my son involved in the sport and realized how much I loved and missed it. So when I go to Utah, or Cali, or Colorado, or wherever I go outside of Michigan, I want to click in and go. If I want to specifically carve groomers I have that covered in spades. If I want to surf a deep drop I've a ski for that too. I don't have that ski that I can just click into, jump on the lift, and it doesn't matter which way I go to get down. I want to have the same symbiotic relationship with it that I have with a couple of my other skis (in their niche). So, if the Reunion is it, a grand is little to me. If it is not, they'll buy it back. Can't go wrong. I'm liking it more every minute.

Can't say that I have not thought about the same perspective. When my youngest is on his own way then I will probably do just that and spend money on exactly what i want. Then again I do not buy new cars either - that is a different story.

 

[Rod9301]

You don't need full camber for a ski to carve well. Katanas have reverse camber and yet carve.

I am skeptical of premium skis that come from a small manufacturer.

Hard to believe that they have the r&d resources to make better skis than volkl for example.

This said, it depends what market the ski manufacturer is addressing. I've had bad luck with k2 skis, two pairs broke down after 25 days or so.

 

[markojp]

Kore 93. Bonefide.

That's a great point and observation. I have never skied a Renoun, but I have enough "intel" form others to know that it's very unique. I've skied some tremendous Stocklis and Kastles that covered that wide range of conditions. At one point, I had a deal with Stockli and the original Stormrider XL "Offroad" was an incredibly versatile ski. They have only improved the skis.

So many good skis.....but to be honest, not all of them.

In the custom world, it's hard to find a customer of Pete Wagner's who is not a raving fan. In the East, Parlor is making some great skis. Lots of choices.

My post ^^^^^ above was in response to the question of compare the Monster to the Kore. No more. And @Tom K. asked it because he felt that @PisteOff had pretty much zeroed in on a Renoun.
Which I think would be a much better option that either Head series...for him.

So many options.

Just curious, but we're you able to ski a 189 last spring? I recall that the 93 189 mold wasn't finished for testing dates. I've got a pair of 189 105's on the way. Thought about a 17-18 Monster 108 since the new one is a bit softer, but I figured, what the heck. On another note, it'll be interesting to see if the 'new' Bodacious has a market. Like you, I think v1.0 is perhaps the best wide ski I've ever ridden. Given the iSpeed Pro, M88 and soon to be K-105, I'm hoping to sell off everything else, though the Bodacious will end up as a wall decoration. If the 105 works (only skied the 180... ), I'll part with the M98's. We'll see.

 

[dlague]

@dlague, fact is that we all have different ways of evaluating what equipment is "worth" to each of us. I know a number of tight fisted skiers who are contemplating buying Renouns, as one example, as they have been pretty much convinced that they ARE worth it. My older brother is about to buy a pair of Wagners for himself, and a second pair for his wife. He skis about 100 days a winter, and he just wants a pair. He has had deals for most of his adult ski life. He's done his research with Pete Wagner and he's 100% convinced. As are many others. I used to be able to buy Stockli at cost. That ship has sailed. Since I get Blizz, Nordica, or Head "at a very good price", That's my current wheelhouse. I might be able to stretch that to include Fischer and Volkl, but I am not pushing.

Having said that, A lot of people that I respect do feel that the premium skis are just better, in almost all conditions. Our daughter was a high level racer, who was provided with great equipment by her ski company. She is used to very good skis. She skied for three days last winter on a 181cm Kastle FX95 HP, that had been properly set up and she was just raving about the ski. Enough to buy them....not for her. Yet.

It's pretty interesting, as if you buy wisely at the end of the season, you can find pretty much anything left over at half of MRSP {or less}. But the premium stuff does work. Or most does. Some of the worst skis that I, and both of our adult kids {who work in the business}, have skied is a so called premium ski....or at least marketed as one. We literally don't know a single person who would buy it. My wife is a darn good skier, and she lasted two runs on it. If she could have given it back after one, she would have. We actually returned it at the end of a couple of days, so as to not really disappoint the source, who is a friend.

So many good skis, and just a few dogs. But....it all depends. Buying $1200 skis cold turkey is risky, and Renoun's warranty is brilliant. I am led to believe that the skis are so well accepted that he gets very few back. Almost none. May get some returned where people blew the size, and either upsize or downsize later.

I'm cheap, but I'm convinced that some of the premium skis kill it these days.

I do agree with you - for me at this time it is also a risk reward thing. While I try to demo skis during the season, I may not be sold on something I have tried so buying sub $350 after researching what I find and then buying them allows me to give them a seasons try and if I do not like them no huge loss. With so many reviews out there, it is easy to get perspective on performance and behavior. I was scouting Head Cyclic, Head Collective, Fischer Ranger 106, Elan Spectrum 115 and 105 all were under $350 albeit 2015 or 2016 models.

Maybe this winter I will see if I can get a demo day on some top end skis for the fun of it!

 

[Muleski]

Kore 93. Bonefide.



Just curious, but we're you able to ski a 189 last spring? I recall that the 93 189 mold wasn't finished for testing dates. I've got a pair of 189 105's on the way. Thought about a 17-18 Monster 108 since the new one is a bit softer, but I figured, what the heck. On another note, it'll be interesting to see if the 'new' Bodacious has a market. Like you, I think v1.0 is perhaps the best wide ski I've ever ridden. Given the iSpeed Pro, M88 and soon to be K-105, I'm hoping to sell off everything else, though the Bodacious will end up as a wall decoration. If the 105 works (only skied the 180... ), I'll part with the M98's. We'll see.

No, I have only skied the 180cm 93, but I think I had a pretty good feel for what the longer length would bring to the dance floor. My son had the chance to ski both the 93 and the 105 in the longer length a couple of weeks ago, and based on what he says, no change in my thinking. We'll see on the Bodacious.....I love that ski. And since I "mooch" of som mother affiliations and friendships, I can mix it all up.

Given what I've skied in the Head lineup, I'll stick with my Monster 88's {2015-2016} over the Kore 93, but I'm intrigued with the Kore 105. We'll see. Very intriguing as a potential touring setup. Probably better than my current one, but not a top priority. I have a Blizzard ZeroG 108, but I am 99% certain that I'd prefer the Kore 105 on the way down. Don't get to seriously tour as much as I'd like, or I'd be more eager. The Blizz is fine for a morning skin, and easy run down, etc.

Plus, the Kore looks bad-azz.