I hate under binding canting. Then you've got dedicated right and left skis and you have to do that for every pair of skis. Not going there.
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Gear Daymakers binding adaptors
- Thread starter SSSdave
- Start date
I hate under binding canting. Then you've got dedicated right and left skis and you have to do that for every pair of skis. Not going there.
Canting under the binding becomes impractical if you have
Did I over do the 'hate' part? I think not.
As a ski tech, I hate it too. Some brands make it easy with canting kits which include longer screws with the cants. For most, though, it is digging through a #10 tin of assorted screws and trying to come up with the right length screw with the right head shape. More often than not, you end up having to cut screws to length and shaping the tips of the screws so that they won't delaminate the top sheet when you try to screw them in. AAARRRRGGGGHHH! I've never ruined a ski doing this, but I've spent WWWAAAAYYYYY too much time doing the work and working into the wee hours to get a night's shift done.
Did I over do the 'hate' part? I think not.
I skinned with a friend for a day shortly after the big shut down weekend. I sunk $2K into a new AT setup and it works great and I am very pleased. I looked at used setups, but realistically it is only viable if you are "normal" sized and want a typical "tech" setup. Being a clyde and wanting a more downhill oriented setup, I found absolutely nothing that would work for me early season.
My friend is also a clyde, but rented a typical tech setup with the option to buy. After using it for a couple weeks, he didn't buy it and instead bought a set of daymakers. He only used them on his property, but was happy enough with them to pass on the tech setup he could have bought. It was demo gear, so I would guess the price was about %50 off retail.
His thinking was he liked my gear, but didn't want to drop the $2K I did. He won't skin that often, just occasionally, and mostly at a resort. He got the daymakers for about $300 on sale. He doesn't have to buy boots with pins, or skis, or bindings, just skins and the daymakers. For anyone who doesn't skin often, and on challenging terrain, they are the lowest cost way to do it.
IF I had know about them before I bought my setup, I think I would have gone that way as well. I am not a serious sback country skier, mostly side country, and prioritize the downhill performance over the up. If there is a lift, I will ride it for sure.
My friend is also a clyde, but rented a typical tech setup with the option to buy. After using it for a couple weeks, he didn't buy it and instead bought a set of daymakers. He only used them on his property, but was happy enough with them to pass on the tech setup he could have bought. It was demo gear, so I would guess the price was about %50 off retail.
His thinking was he liked my gear, but didn't want to drop the $2K I did. He won't skin that often, just occasionally, and mostly at a resort. He got the daymakers for about $300 on sale. He doesn't have to buy boots with pins, or skis, or bindings, just skins and the daymakers. For anyone who doesn't skin often, and on challenging terrain, they are the lowest cost way to do it.
IF I had know about them before I bought my setup, I think I would have gone that way as well. I am not a serious sback country skier, mostly side country, and prioritize the downhill performance over the up. If there is a lift, I will ride it for sure.
Sure you're right, but i need 3 1/2 degrees on my left and 1/2 on my right, v so without canting under the binding my skiing should suck. No other way around it.
And yeah, it's more work for techs, so?
Why not cant the soles?
You have with tech bindings
Once my boot fitter told me getting my feet into anything light wasn’t going to happen, I decided to stick with my Verts snow shoes and pack my boots and skis on my back on the way up.
I had thought about the CAST boot conversion but with my Atomics not having a walk mode, am not in a rush to go that route either.
Boot Conversion
CAST Boot Conversion allows you to keep rocking the alpine boots you know and love, while adding tech compatibility for super efficient touring. If you have replaceable soles we will modify those soles and your boots for tech compatibility. If you have a hard soled boot, we throw on custom...
casttouring.com
I had my first day on the Daymakers today and I was very happy with their operation. The 4-bar linkage truly does provide a smooth stride along with ensuring that the grip underfoot is unfailing. You don't have to do anything odd with your steps to get the pressure needed. In fact, I could have my weight quite far forward, which is supposedly an absolute no-no when ascending steeper sections, without any loss of traction. There was a guy on a plate binding who stopped to ask me about the Daymakers, we chatted and then climbed a bit, it was really obvious the difference in the stride pattern he had to take on the plate bindings as we were on one of the steeper sections.
All that said, you still have to move a bunch of weight on each uphill step. You have the Daymakers (mine weigh 732g each) along with a standard alpine binding (my Tyrolia Attack2 13 GW weight 1041g each w/ brake). That's a lot of weight just in the bindings plus adapters. I have come up with a way to mount the Daymakers directly to the skis without the bindings, but it requires a modification to the Daymakers. I'm not willing to mod them at this point until I make some decisions about what I want my future touring setup to be. Fiddling with the bindings to put them back on the skis needs to be smooth and easy too.
At this point I'm actually leaning toward getting a lighter weight option together (this is my hip flexors talking
after the steep lap up).
Edit P.S. - Forgot to mention that you do not need a boot with walk mode for the Daymakers. I never felt any kind of limitation due to being in my Fischer The Curv 130 boots. The stride pattern of the Daymakers actually provides a bit of reverse ramp, so it actually decreases the forward lean of the boots.
All that said, you still have to move a bunch of weight on each uphill step. You have the Daymakers (mine weigh 732g each) along with a standard alpine binding (my Tyrolia Attack2 13 GW weight 1041g each w/ brake). That's a lot of weight just in the bindings plus adapters. I have come up with a way to mount the Daymakers directly to the skis without the bindings, but it requires a modification to the Daymakers. I'm not willing to mod them at this point until I make some decisions about what I want my future touring setup to be. Fiddling with the bindings to put them back on the skis needs to be smooth and easy too.
At this point I'm actually leaning toward getting a lighter weight option together (this is my hip flexors talking
after the steep lap up).Edit P.S. - Forgot to mention that you do not need a boot with walk mode for the Daymakers. I never felt any kind of limitation due to being in my Fischer The Curv 130 boots. The stride pattern of the Daymakers actually provides a bit of reverse ramp, so it actually decreases the forward lean of the boots.
Some additional thoughts on Daymakers for touring...
I've spent some additional time assessing my current touring setup with the Daymakers versus the other options. I've been researching the weight concerns, safety issues, and uphill/downhill performance characteristics.
On the weight side of things, if I had to do this again I would go with a boot with tech fittings and a releasable cuff along with the Salomon/Atomic Shift bindings. I think it's probably the best balance of everything for me when I'm willing to spend the money to do it right. In the interim, what I've figured out is that the Daymakers on a lightweight alpine binding are about equivalent in weight to most plate bindings. In the Tyrolia binding world, the weight savings for their alpine bindings can be found when using their lighter SX heel (about 100g lighter). The advantage Daymakers have over a plate binding is that you don't have to lift the plate itself and the binding heel piece on each stride. Their improved pivot action with the 4-bar linkage also decreases the effort. So although they might look similar in weight on paper, in practice the Daymakers should actually result in higher uphill efficiency. I've never actually used a plate binding, but I have no reason to doubt these observations.
For the safety side of things, clearly the Daymakers let you use a full alpine binding on the downhill. Because of my previous injuries I will not ski a pin-based toe on the downhill; just too many concerns with that for me at my age. This is also why I wouldn't do more than go with the Shift binding if I do go with a lighter setup at some point. I also like the lower stack height that the Daymakers provide for the downhill. Plate bindings practically put you up in the sky and I don't like that feeling on wider skis. Plate bindings also have no easy way to modify the binding delta. So that's another good reason to not go there.
My downhill performance concerns have "subsided" a bit since getting a few laps completed. I now observe that the uphill energy expenditure means that you're probably not going to be skiing the downhill like you are inbounds at a ski resort. However, I am a bit of a ski snob when it comes to the on-snow feel and pin bindings really detract from that from all I've read. So something like the Shift or a typical alpine binding are much preferred. The ability to modify the binding delta is a must have capability for my choice also. Plate bindings have numerous disadvantages; including an unnatural stride, the high stack height, and potential icing issues that are harder to clear than with Daymakers.
So for now I think I'm going to stick with the Daymakers and continue to look at places in my setup where I can find additional weight savings while using them. The big opportunity is with potentially removing the entire alpine binding from the ski for the uphill. I'm working on an experiment using Tyrolia PRD12 bindings on some ZAG Big skis. I think I have a way to secure the Daymakers directly to the PowerRail plates, but it will require a mod to the Daymakers that won't prevent them from being used in their typical fashion, but will obviously decrease their resale value. So I'm still thinking on this one for a bit...
I've spent some additional time assessing my current touring setup with the Daymakers versus the other options. I've been researching the weight concerns, safety issues, and uphill/downhill performance characteristics.
On the weight side of things, if I had to do this again I would go with a boot with tech fittings and a releasable cuff along with the Salomon/Atomic Shift bindings. I think it's probably the best balance of everything for me when I'm willing to spend the money to do it right. In the interim, what I've figured out is that the Daymakers on a lightweight alpine binding are about equivalent in weight to most plate bindings. In the Tyrolia binding world, the weight savings for their alpine bindings can be found when using their lighter SX heel (about 100g lighter). The advantage Daymakers have over a plate binding is that you don't have to lift the plate itself and the binding heel piece on each stride. Their improved pivot action with the 4-bar linkage also decreases the effort. So although they might look similar in weight on paper, in practice the Daymakers should actually result in higher uphill efficiency. I've never actually used a plate binding, but I have no reason to doubt these observations.
For the safety side of things, clearly the Daymakers let you use a full alpine binding on the downhill. Because of my previous injuries I will not ski a pin-based toe on the downhill; just too many concerns with that for me at my age. This is also why I wouldn't do more than go with the Shift binding if I do go with a lighter setup at some point. I also like the lower stack height that the Daymakers provide for the downhill. Plate bindings practically put you up in the sky and I don't like that feeling on wider skis. Plate bindings also have no easy way to modify the binding delta. So that's another good reason to not go there.
My downhill performance concerns have "subsided" a bit since getting a few laps completed. I now observe that the uphill energy expenditure means that you're probably not going to be skiing the downhill like you are inbounds at a ski resort. However, I am a bit of a ski snob when it comes to the on-snow feel and pin bindings really detract from that from all I've read. So something like the Shift or a typical alpine binding are much preferred. The ability to modify the binding delta is a must have capability for my choice also. Plate bindings have numerous disadvantages; including an unnatural stride, the high stack height, and potential icing issues that are harder to clear than with Daymakers.
So for now I think I'm going to stick with the Daymakers and continue to look at places in my setup where I can find additional weight savings while using them. The big opportunity is with potentially removing the entire alpine binding from the ski for the uphill. I'm working on an experiment using Tyrolia PRD12 bindings on some ZAG Big skis. I think I have a way to secure the Daymakers directly to the PowerRail plates, but it will require a mod to the Daymakers that won't prevent them from being used in their typical fashion, but will obviously decrease their resale value. So I'm still thinking on this one for a bit...
Why reinvent the wheel?
Tons of people, including myself, ski with pin bindings.
The only time you would feel them is on very firm, tracked snow.
I would definitely not get the shift, you should read the shift thread on tgr, lights of problems.
Tons of people, including myself, ski with pin bindings.
The only time you would feel them is on very firm, tracked snow.
I would definitely not get the shift, you should read the shift thread on tgr, lights of problems.
You clearly haven't had a catastrophic level accident on skis that left you with an IM rod down your tibia and screws in your ankle. There's a long thread on this forum about the dangers of going downhill while on pin bindings and plenty of other info on the Internet too. I'm not telling you what to do, only that it's not the right fit for me. I am well aware of the issues with the Shift binding, but I'm hoping that by the time I actually pull the trigger they will have worked out the remaining kinks.
Ha that is so funny I finally clicked on the 'daymaker' link. I had been thinking you were talking about the Alpine Trekkers which were very similar product 20 years ago and they were jokingly called the 'Day Wreckers' because they were heavy and had moving parts etc. I used the heck out of them at one point because as someone pointed out it was the value of the DH stability outweighing the uphill weight. Very similar product.
Used them to access all this skiing a while back...
Used them to access all this skiing a while back...
Yeah, the guys behind the Daymakers actually had a different name for them in the beginning (I think it was Chrome Makers or something like that), but they decided to play on the old Trekkers nickname of Day Wreckers. Daymakers are actually a solid piece of engineering. If I were to change anything it would be to reduce the weight and the stand height. If they could do that, it would be hard to argue against them at all. When I look at this current iteration I see a few opportunities to do both, so hopefully they're reinvesting their success in the next version.
My wife has a pair that we got in November, she's used them pretty much every Saturday and Sunday since then for usually 1-2 laps a day on our local ski area. 1300' vert and 1.2miles per lap for the uphill, takes her right around 50 minutes to do. As many would imagine, we got them for her primarily because you couldn't get anything else at the time and $400 + skins was a much easier expense to absorb. Aside from the weight, she has rather enjoyed the uphill part of our ski day now. No mechanical failures and she's even fallen over awkwardly a couple times in them.
Thread Starter
TS
Given the pandemic, early season drought conditions, living 4 hours driving from resorts, have done less resort skiing this season than hoped, so no thoughts about bc thus far. But spring skiing is rising quickly so with these posts so is my interest. Last spring was empty due to pandemic lock downs. Spring 2019 and 2020 were wet years for our SoCal deserts with wildflower blooms so was off on landscape photography with no spring skiing. Currently am heavily into more rec bump skiing.
This 2021 spring is droughty so no photography thus ought to get out by mid April skinning up on the DayMakers that will be under my Santa Ana 88's including some more serious corn fun along the Eastern Sierra.
This 2021 spring is droughty so no photography thus ought to get out by mid April skinning up on the DayMakers that will be under my Santa Ana 88's including some more serious corn fun along the Eastern Sierra.
Do they make a climbing crampon for these?
No they don't. I'm not sure how that would work because of how they attach to the skis normally. I suppose it may be possible to rig something up though, but you'd have to get creative.
After some Googling on this, I see that there are universal ski crampons available. So there's that option. Also, they did make crampons for the Trekker, so it certainly should be possible for the Daymakers folks to create one if they get motivated. It may also be possible to find an old pair of the Trekker crampons and modify them to work with the Daymakers.
You should probably carry boot crampons. If the snow is firm, it would be quicker and safer to boot up instead of skinning without ski crampons
I have previously "teased" that I thought I had a way to effectively use Daymakers directly on the ski without the binding toe and heel pieces required. Tonight I figured out exactly how to mount my Daymakers directly to PowerRail plates. This means that the toes and heels of the PowerRail bindings can go in the pack. So the weight on each leg now works out to:
Ski + PowerRail Plate + Daymakers Adapter + Boot
1737 + 305 + 562 + 1653 = 4257 (9.4 lbs.)
I have literally chopped about 5 lbs. off each leg with this new setup. The PowerRail plate + Daymakers total puts it right in the realm of a Shift binding (actually slightly less).
The Daymakers slide right onto the PowerRail base plate just like a binding piece with my "hack".
The best part is that the method I've come up with to do this requires NO modifications to any of the equipment. Everything is reversible. More to come as soon as I validate it on an uphill lap.
My Daymakers weigh less in this calculation because I no longer need the blue base plate or the heel and toe lugs. So it's down to 562g/adapter.
(Sorry for cross-posting this info in 2 different threads, but this is where this info really belongs).
Here's a teaser pic of what this looks like. I will provide all the details on how to do this, but note that it requires using PowerRail bindings (primarily so that this is easy to use in the transition. Everything slides on/off the rails very simply).
Ski + PowerRail Plate + Daymakers Adapter + Boot
1737 + 305 + 562 + 1653 = 4257 (9.4 lbs.)
I have literally chopped about 5 lbs. off each leg with this new setup. The PowerRail plate + Daymakers total puts it right in the realm of a Shift binding (actually slightly less).
The Daymakers slide right onto the PowerRail base plate just like a binding piece with my "hack".
The best part is that the method I've come up with to do this requires NO modifications to any of the equipment. Everything is reversible. More to come as soon as I validate it on an uphill lap.
My Daymakers weigh less in this calculation because I no longer need the blue base plate or the heel and toe lugs. So it's down to 562g/adapter.
(Sorry for cross-posting this info in 2 different threads, but this is where this info really belongs).
Here's a teaser pic of what this looks like. I will provide all the details on how to do this, but note that it requires using PowerRail bindings (primarily so that this is easy to use in the transition. Everything slides on/off the rails very simply).
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