Dave Ryding: Fischer to Dynastar/Lange

[Muleski]

Saw that he posted of his change in equipment today on various social media.

Curious as to what drove the change. Often, it's money/contract. I don't think that he commands a big contract. He skis very well, but results.......not so much.

Made me think of two things. First, many coaches and techs felt that he has perhaps the best tech setup {given his size, technique, physiology, etc.} on tour. It's hard to imagine it being better with new stuff, and it's a risk to be as good.

Second, it made me realize juts how few men are on a Dynastar ski, and how few racers are in a Lange boot. Rossi has most of their people in a Rossi. I assume that Mitch Gagnon and Nina Loseth are going to be in a Lange again. Maybe not. I think that other than them, ALL of the Rossi skiers are in a Rossi boot.

Stockli has a number of their bigger guns in a Lange boot: Rebensburg, Stuhec, Flury, Cook.....

For brand that many associate with a race heritage, not a big presence. The half dozen or so Dynastar skiers. Clement Noel. Dave might be their biggest name.

So perhaps it was a nice paycheck? I'll be interested to see how it works for him. I think he's a top 10-15 SL skier, delighted to be near a podium at this point.

Really have not paid attention to anybody else making changes.

 

[S.H.]

Rossi has most of their people in a Rossi. I assume that Mitch Gagnon and Nina Loseth are going to be in a Lange again. Maybe not. I think that other than them, ALL of the Rossi skiers are in a Rossi boot.

According to the FIS site, Estelle Alphand is in a Lange. Brignone was in a Lange last year, not aware of any change, but I could be wrong.

Dynastar stable is surprisingly (to me) small. Manuela Moelgg retired, so they lost (probably) their biggest name.

 

[Muleski]

According to the FIS site, Estelle Alphand is in a Lange. Brignone was in a Lange last year, not aware of any change, but I could be wrong.

Dynastar stable is surprisingly (to me) small. Manuela Moelgg retired, so they lost (probably) their biggest name.

Could be.....but now that the true WC boots have identical "plastic", there's no real reason to be in a blue boot if you're on the Rossi ski, unless Rossi/Lange wants you to be. Or, so I hear. A couple of those ladies, I think, just like sticking with the proven thing. We'll see.

I checked the Lange site, where they profile their "Team". They must be missing Alphand, and they still show Maze and of course, Mancuso. Brignone is there. A lot of Lange folks.

Dynastar's stable is TINY. I had the same reaction. Particularly guys. I wonder what the cost of the race program is, versus the gain. Must feel that it sells a lot of race skis, particularly in Europe. Dunno

 

[SkiSpeed]

A tad off topic from Dave, but aligned to equipment changes: Laurenne Ross announced her switch to Stockli (sorry if this has been reported elsewhere); her pic looks like she is in Lange boots as well. I never quite understood why Atomic let her go a while back, or at least that is how I heard it.

Yes, the Dynastar* stable is small, but since the Dynastar race product is also the Rossi product, they are kind of a subset of the Rossi stable. Clement Noel really made an impact this year and that may possibly help their race sales in Europe for guys, not sure if there would be traction here. Does it impact Dynastar's ability to snag athletes given Rossi's larger market share and $$?

As for Rossi, they seem to be growing their market share. While not WC, attached is a pic from the base of Jiminy Peak when Williams was hosting their Carnival (2/16/18); GS day (some Dynastars in there as well)!

*Old Related Thread Discussion: Just snagged new Dynastar SL boards yesterday: they say Engineered and Designed in France, but like the Rossi's, when you look at the fine print on the tail, "Made in Spain."

 

[Muleski]

I'm a bit confused.

Almost every decision made by every WC skier, at least those good enough to get PAID {and that number is much smaller than it was five, ten, and 15 years ago.....}, is based on their paycheck. It can also involve what type of tech support they get, if any. There are some classically bad decisions in the past when a ski company decided withdraw the factory tech support, and the athlete moved to a different company because he was promised that he could keep "his tech." I recall Chip Knight leaving Fischer to go to Elan, and then shortly retiring. Largely about the tech.

Rossi and Dynastar is essentially the same race product, at the very top. I believe built in the same "race room" {in France}, unless they still have some skis contract built in Italy. I believe that's no longer. Clement Noel is a young guy, French, and the way that I look at it is that he had some great results, including Jr. Worlds, and he happened to be on Dynastar. He's French, and it's not like he's drawing a big paycheck, if at all. So the "Dynastar ability to snag athletes" seems pretty simple. Dave Ryding's contract with Fischer was up. I presume that his agent had him out to bid, and that Dynastar was the best option. Maybe he'll help skis to skiers form the UK? He's not at the top, he's not on the rise, and he's not a kid.

What sort of confuses me is why the Rossignol group even has a WC level race program with the Dynastar brand. Or why they have redundant race distribution, etc. It must make sense to those making the decisions. Killing the brand as a race ski must have perceived downside.

Rossi race skis are everywhere in North America. The Williams Carnival Pic is a good example of the fact that They have been super aggressive in their pricing for the bulk of the Eastern NCAA crowd, who are not at a level where they are fully comp'd with the best quality product. Rossi sells them really great skis, at very, very good deals. I know a couple of teams where it seems like every skier, male or female is on Rossi, or Dynastar. Some of the Dynastar skiers seem to have been on the skis for 10-12 straight years......

I know some of the folks.....but none of the exact details in terms of what's made, where.

I'm not surprised about Laurenne's move. Volkl does not have a really strong speed presence. She likely had a contract that paid her relatively decently, when she moved to Volkl a few years ago, and which ran through this Olympic year. I'm pretty sure that Atomic "let her go" by not coming up with a decent deal. Not like she had a lot of results at the time. I would assume that she's not commanding much of a contract these days. Perhaps a small one. So the emphasis may be on the skis and the support. I would bet that she may have tested faster on the Stockli. Now....who's Stockli? Which skis? All a factor. At any rate, that move frees up her boot choice. Stockli has skiers in Lange, Head, Fisher and other boots. Probably somebody in a Dobie. Not keeping track of it.

What I think is somewhat shocking for many is that money really talks in this game. If you're "good enough" to get great product, and good support, but no real pay, it makes the choice different. It is more about product. But if you are on that bubble, and you have one or two companies who will give you a nice contract, with incentives, that leads the decision in a different direction.

Bode, Ligety, LV and many others never made a ski move to anybody other than the highest bidder. They'll purpose build whatever is needed, product wise for that crowd. Hirscher being the face of Atomic has little to do with Atomic skis, as we know them.

Been a very quiet year for this stuff. The big money is in very few hands, I believe.

 

[cantunamunch]

I'm a bit confused.


What sort of confuses me is why the Rossignol group even has a WC level race program with the Dynastar brand. Or why they have redundant race distribution, etc. It must make sense to those making the decisions. Killing the brand as a race ski must have perceived downside..

This is pretty much exactly the same line of questioning I was pursuing back when we were talking about overall brand rankings.

https://www.pugski.com/threads/2018-overall-brand-ranking.9488/#post-231285

I still have no idea what the answers might be.

 

[HeluvaSkier]

Bizarre change for a skier who arguably had one of the best setups on the WC... with the 4th-ranked brand on the WC. Only thing I can think of is he is trying to get 'Rossi' equipment (#1 ranked for tech) but couldn't pen a deal with Rossi that gave the support he wanted. With Rossi he's an also-mentioned in a group of bigger names... with Dynastar he's the only name. So he's likely getting the best Dynastar product... the question would be... is the best Dynastar product equivalent to the best Rossi product? I don't know the answer, but I hope he gets what he's hoping for.

 

[Muleski]

I've heard from two coach friends, international high level guys who both said they thought it was very strange. More than meets the eye, they feel. His Fischer setup really worked for him. And that's not, as we know always the case! He may have been dropped...a lot...by Fischer. Compensation, bonus, support.

I hope it works, too. He's fun to watch. I keep hoping for some more consistently. More podiums and a win. Perhaps Fischer was as well. Just seems strange.

 

[Primoz]

According to the FIS site, Estelle Alphand is in a Lange. Brignone was in a Lange last year, not aware of any change, but I could be wrong..

Alphand was definitely in Rossi boots this season (https://goo.gl/J38EMN). No idea about next one though.
About Ryding... he kinda lost it in last few season, so changing equipment is maybe one way to try to get back to where he was few years ago. I don't think it's much in this, but mental part is big deal. There were few changes this spring pretty much all because of this. For example, Kline went from Stoeckli to Nordica, as he had constant "equipment problems" this season. Truth is, he was using same skis and same boots that he was winning with in previous season, and this season it was so slow and so bad he hardly made it to top 30. On the other side, he got a kid, he was there (and saw himself) crash of Poisson, and these things leave mark. Anyway back to Ryding. I don't think money played big role here, as he's in no position to negotiate for some big money, with Fischer, with Dynastar or with any other brand.
Dynastar is definitely weird pick considering there's pretty much noone on men side with them, but considering it's same ski as Rossi (as well as Lange for boots), and Rossi currently has one of best, if not the best, tech skis, I would say Rossi wasn't really interested, as they have quite few top/better racers under their roof, so Dynastar jumped in to provide same equipment and get their name up. And for Ryding, I would say as I wrote before, it's more mental game then anything, trying to find his old skiing. And change of equipment (or coach) is normally first thing to do, as no athlete ever did something wrong him/herself, so it has to always be some outside thing that it's to blame for bad results

 

[Primoz]

What sort of confuses me is why the Rossignol group even has a WC level race program with the Dynastar brand. Or why they have redundant race distribution, etc. It must make sense to those making the decisions. Killing the brand as a race ski must have perceived downside.

Things in Europe are different then in USA. Ok I'm not saying I know anything about US, but I sort of got impression on-piste/race skis are basically non-interesting thing for US market, as it's all more into freeride/all mountain or whatever 80+mm skis are called. It's changing in Europe too, and you see more and more lunatics with 100+mm skis skiing icy pistes (yeah I know it's soooo much better then race ski ), but for now, traditional companies still rule the world over here. And company without race program is basically non-existing. So if you want to sell Dynastar, even in 80+mm market, you need to have race presence. But thing is, sometimes even companies themself, or better to say their owners, have no idea what to really do. I guess that's case with Dynastar who would want to have race team, but would also not want to have it, as Rossi has it already and it's useless to spend money on same thing. Same thing goes with Nordica and Blizzard. They have no idea if they should stay in WC or not or they should concentrate only on recreational skis etc. I guess it's really not easy, but sometimes these decisions really look weird from outside.

 

[fatbob]

Dave has had f all funding in the scheme of things so wouldn't be surprised if he's chasing a few quid with an enhanced contract. If it gets him onto Rossi in a different wrapper skis then maybe not such a bad thing.

The other angle is Dynastar is probably bigger in the UK market than Fischer so if they want to flog skis to casual punters who watch Ski Sunday...and in the absence of a plethora of available French SL stars maybe a Brit ain't so bad.

 

[fatbob]

I mean Chamonix is practically a suburb of London and "eev even Le Rosbif is competitive sur les skis Dynastar" maybe there is even a French marketing boost

 

[ScotsSkier]

Things in Europe are different then in USA. Ok I'm not saying I know anything about US, but I sort of got impression on-piste/race skis are basically non-interesting thing for US market, as it's all more into freeride/all mountain or whatever 80+mm skis are called. It's changing in Europe too, and you see more and more lunatics with 100+mm skis skiing icy pistes (yeah I know it's soooo much better then race ski ), but for now, traditional companies still rule the world over here. And company without race program is basically non-existing. So if you want to sell Dynastar, even in 80+mm market, you need to have race presence. But thing is, sometimes even companies themself, or better to say their owners, have no idea what to really do. I guess that's case with Dynastar who would want to have race team, but would also not want to have it, as Rossi has it already and it's useless to spend money on same thing. Same thing goes with Nordica and Blizzard. They have no idea if they should stay in WC or not or they should concentrate only on recreational skis etc. I guess it's really not easy, but sometimes these decisions really look weird from outside.

You win the internet today Primoz!

 

[Muleski]

Hi, In case I was confusing in my earlier posts, with respect to the contract piece of this, I was trying to say that Ryding's "value" in terms of a contract is likely declining as he just has not had the outstanding results that have been expected to "pop" over the past few years. He's also not getting younger. So, my hunch is that he probably was not offered much by Fischer to renew. Not much at all. Great product, who knows what support, and maybe a bunch of incentives {such as the kind that we would not have come close to a year ago}. I also agree with @Primoz, in that many of these guys have it in their heads that they need a change....some for what seem to be strange reasons.

Lastly, sometimes these athletes want to be wanted, and being the "big dog" for any company is what gets them excited. I think there is something to Dave being from the UK, that being a good market for Dynastar, and such. I would assume that they have done their homework.....but every time I assume that a company has been thinking, I hear "we never thought of that."

Ant any rate, based on how he has been skiing, and the perception of how well he was dialed on the Fischer setup, and in the Fischer boots, I'm hearing coaches say that they can't imagine that he'll ski any better in the Lange/Dynastar set up, and that there is a real risk to this one.

Best of luck to him.

 

[Muleski]

On the subject of company changes, Canada's Dustin Cook announced today that he's signed with Stockli, after eight years on Head. Dustin has had one tremendous result, a SG silver in the Beaver Creek FIS world Champs in 2015, followed by his only WC win, in SG. I suspect that he had a very nice contract with Head, through the 2018 Games, based on his potential and the 2015 results. He finished 2015 ranked 5th in SG, missed the folowing season, and had a rough comeback the year after. For whatever reason, making a change might be a help to him. But I would doubt that Head was real "generous" with an offer and likely felt that losing him was not a big issue. Hard to say.

Stockli is not really loaded with guys. Marco Odermatt. As Promoz noted, Kline is gone. Maybe we'll see another signing or two there.

EDIT:
Just noticed a bit on the FIS site about company changes. Not a lot of big names, but I did see that Swiss Gino Caviezel, who skis just GS and is ranked 25-30 is going from Head to Dynastar. Not exactly a household name. Maybe Dynastar did pay him a bit. can't see how he factors into Head's plans.

 

[Swiss Toni]

The main reason is probably money, as Fatbob mentioned Dave doesn’t have much funding and he has to pay the British snowsports federation £15,000 per year. It wasn’t widely reported at the time, but in December Peter Schröcksnadel the president of the Austrian Ski Federation and co-owner of the Hinterstoder-Wurzeralm lift company banned him from training at Hinterstoder - Höss. Apparently he wasn’t best pleased when Dave set the fastest time in the first run of the slalom at Levi. This action breached the terms of Dave’s contract with his main sponsor Pyhrn-Priel (they could no longer provide training facilities) so he had to find a new sponsor and training facilities. He is now sponsored by Obergurgl-Hochgurgl.

Bear in mind that Group Rossignol is much bigger (turnover in the year to march 17 € 320 m) than Fischer which had turnover of € 136 m during the same period.

The production facilities for both Rossignol and Dynastar race skis are located at their global headquarters near Grenoble, it’s very swish https://www.herault-arnod.fr/Siege-mondial-Rossignol so it’s conceivably that the skis use same constructions but with different branding. The high-end wood cored consumer skis for both brands are made at Sallanches near Chamonix and the mass-produced skis, freeride/freestyle skis and high-end cross country skis are made at Artès in Spain.

The UK market for skis is very small, so I wouldn’t have thought it wouldn’t make much difference to sales. As a result of the switch Dynastar will probably sell a few more pairs of junior racing skis in th UK and Fischer a few less.

 

[Muleski]

Anybody have a feel, or guess at what Fischer was paying Dave, what they may have offered him to resign, and what he might be getting paid by Dynastar?

Keep in mind he has had ONE WC podium. He'll turn 32 this year.

Not sure how much of a living he's making in the sport. I hope I'm wrong. Interesting info from @Swiss Toni about the sponsorships for training. Assume that's "in kind."

 

[razie]

Made me think of two things. First, many coaches and techs felt that he has perhaps the best tech setup {given his size, technique, physiology, etc.} on tour. It's hard to imagine it being better with new stuff, and it's a risk to be as good.

Yeah - his setup looks great and his technique is awesome and the hole package really dialed in... He's been my favorite for the past couple seasons. Myhrer too.

 

[razie]

As a result of the switch Dynastar will probably sell a few more pairs of junior racing skis in th UK and Fischer a few less.

That's awesome... where can I buy the balance?

Dave doesn’t have much funding and he has to pay the British snowsports federation £15,000 per year.

Seriously? In Britain you have to pay to put the nation the map?

 

[fatbob]

Seriously? In Britain you have to pay to put the nation on the map?

I think you'll find we drew most of the maps hence projections are pretty UK centric.

But alpine isn't really a priority
, post Baxter our alpine team was basically Chemmy And she was never really going to challenge on the circuit. Dave has done exceptionally well for a guy who grew up on dryslope.

Our park rats and expat kids on the other hand...