Dalbello Panterra 130 - cantology?

[Josh Matta]

So I am still in search of a better coaching boot. I have been fighting with my Mach 1 MV 130s for the past season, and @epic gave me some front spoilers that have made the boot more skiable but still has this crazy hinge point that when the boot flexes, its basically goes limp and then proceeds to crush my foot and feel very sketchy skiing, and creates painful hot spots that are being caused by boot flex, not by the fit, lets just say Josh problems.

So basic question, I am sure my local boot fitter can answer but I am basically barred from that shop till after the holidays due to the increase in their business. Is there any way to cant the Panterra 130? Cantology or other wise?

I was able to try on someones 25.5 120, with out skiing them, and they were slightly punched for their foot. The 120 felt stiffer than my Mach 1 130, with out the hinge to no where feeling, if it can be canted in the 130 I can probably get 80 percent of the performance of my Kr2 in a much roomier package.

and yes I know the fore and aft is different from the Panterra to Mach 1, I am just going to adjust the binding on something if I need for an aft alignment for that boot.

 

[Philpug]

So I am still in search of a better coaching boot. I have been fighting with my Mach 1 MV 130s for the past season, and @epic gave me some front spoilers that have made the boot more skiable but still has this crazy hinge point that when the boot flexes, its basically goes limp and then proceeds to crush my foot and feel very sketchy skiing, and creates painful hot spots that are being caused by boot flex, not by the fit, lets just say Josh problems.

So basic question, I am sure my local boot fitter can answer but I am basically barred from that shop till after the holidays due to the increase in their business. Is there any way to cant the Panterra 130? Cantology or other wise?

I was able to try on someones 25.5 120, with out skiing them, and they were slightly punched for their foot. The 120 felt stiffer than my Mach 1 130, with out the hinge to no where feeling, if it can be canted in the 130 I can probably get 80 percent of the performance of my Kr2 in a much roomier package.

and yes I know the fore and aft is different from the Panterra to Mach 1, I am just going to adjust the binding on something if I need for an aft alignment for that boot.

Cantology does not offer then. I will be seeing my Dalbello rep later today and I will confirm if Dalbello produces replacable lugs because that is the way the boot is designed, with replacable lugs and not just soles. IF they offer them, it might just be 1* or 2* max, not the significant amount that you need. Knowing the boot and hearing your other issues, cut bait and start looking elsewhere. @DoryBreaux has some experience in these boot, lets get his thoughts.

 

[DoryBreaux]

My foot never got along with the Pantera 120. Granted, that was a previous generation of the boot. I also don't love how a three-piece design skis. But I'm also 6'2" and 230-240 lbs. Lots of leverage.
I know instructors who absolutely love the Pantera. To the point where they won't stop telling me how great it is.
My take would be if you like the way a three-piece skis and it fits your foot, that's your boot.

 

[Josh Matta]

2 degrees is all I would want for this boot, I am willing to lose some hard snow performance if I can get a boot I can teach L6 and down in. My goal is supplementing my Kr2 not replacing them.

The thing is the boot is stiff enough, and can be made wide enough.....,I also hate taking off and on four buckle boots, they suck. I am hesitant to ski in any 4 buckles that is non plug at this point, but not sure a 4 buckle plug could be made comfortable enough to wear while coaching, and not sure any 4 buckle non plug can be made stiff enough to not feel sketchy even teaching fairly low end lessons.

I mean I can be convinced otherwise, but as off right now....

I would prefer 3 buckle
I need it to be stiffer and less hingey than the Mach 1, which the panterra is
I need to fit my foot, or at least be made to fit my foot
I need it to be stiff enough that if I happen to get a high end lesson or hard snow I am not going to die.
Canting just a little would go a long way. If I am able to ski in more upright stance(or get used to it) , I might be able to reduce the lateral canting.

 

[Andy Mink]

proceeds to crush my foot

Is this where the inner top cuff makes contact with the clog? Have you trimmed the cuff a little? My Technica Cochise crushed there when flexed. A few millimeters off the inner part of the overlap helped significantly.

 

[Josh Matta]

Is this where the inner top cuff makes contact with the clog? Have you trimmed the cuff a little? My Technica Cochise crushed there when flexed. A few millimeters off the inner part of the overlap helped significantly.

wont this just make the boot softer?

 

[Philpug]

wont this just make the boot softer?

Not really but it will minimize the pressure over the instep when you flex into the boot. This is something I have had to do with many of my boots, because I have bird like legs.

 

[Andy Mink]

wont this just make the boot softer?

Maybe a wee bit but the relief of pressure is worth it. It's cheaper than a new pair of boots if it works for you.

 

[Josh Matta]

Maybe a wee bit but the relief of pressure is worth it. It's cheaper than a new pair of boots if it works for you.

yeah the thing is any softer isnt going to work.....they are way to soft already even before the foot crushing.

 

[Wendy]

So I am still in search of a better coaching boot. I have been fighting with my Mach 1 MV 130s for the past season, and @epic gave me some front spoilers that have made the boot more skiable but still has this crazy hinge point that when the boot flexes, its basically goes limp and then proceeds to crush my foot and feel very sketchy skiing, and creates painful hot spots that are being caused by boot flex, not by the fit, lets just say Josh problems.

So basic question, I am sure my local boot fitter can answer but I am basically barred from that shop till after the holidays due to the increase in their business. Is there any way to cant the Panterra 130? Cantology or other wise?

I was able to try on someones 25.5 120, with out skiing them, and they were slightly punched for their foot. The 120 felt stiffer than my Mach 1 130, with out the hinge to no where feeling, if it can be canted in the 130 I can probably get 80 percent of the performance of my Kr2 in a much roomier package.

and yes I know the fore and aft is different from the Panterra to Mach 1, I am just going to adjust the binding on something if I need for an aft alignment for that boot.

They don’t have cantology soles, so I don’t know how you’d deal with canting, but the Roxa R3 is a stiff 3 piece boot. I can’t remember the flex rating on the men’s boot, but I couldn’t flex it at all in the shop, lol. (It does have a soft and stiff setting). Anyway, I went from a Mach 1 105 women’s boot to this in a women’s 105, and it’s stiff enough and laterally very stiff. I got a regular DIN sole with mine instead of the Gripwalk sole. I can ski Brian Finch’s Blossom SL’s with them, so they are powerful enough. So much easier to get on and off. I had to heat my Mach 1’s just to be able to get them on. Getting them off was painful. When my feet changed last year, it became unbearable, hence my switch to the 3 piece shell.

 

[Josh Matta]

yeah but the roxa isnt that roomy...

 

[Wendy]

yeah but the roxa isnt that roomy...

Ah, correct. I forgot that part of the equation. It works for me because my foot is narrow. Sorry!

 

[JHust]

So I am still in search of a better coaching boot. I have been fighting with my Mach 1 MV 130s for the past season, and @epic gave me some front spoilers that have made the boot more skiable but still has this crazy hinge point that when the boot flexes, its basically goes limp and then proceeds to crush my foot and feel very sketchy skiing, and creates painful hot spots that are being caused by boot flex, not by the fit, lets just say Josh problems.

So basic question, I am sure my local boot fitter can answer but I am basically barred from that shop till after the holidays due to the increase in their business. Is there any way to cant the Panterra 130? Cantology or other wise?

I was able to try on someones 25.5 120, with out skiing them, and they were slightly punched for their foot. The 120 felt stiffer than my Mach 1 130, with out the hinge to no where feeling, if it can be canted in the 130 I can probably get 80 percent of the performance of my Kr2 in a much roomier package.

and yes I know the fore and aft is different from the Panterra to Mach 1, I am just going to adjust the binding on something if I need for an aft alignment for that boot.

I have the first year Panterra and was also told by multiple bootfitters that they can't be changed but in fact they can be. I had mine done by Billy Kaplan. He is just outside of Philadelphia.

After figuring out how much degree of cant I needed (I needed both feet done) he said he would just make a new sole for the boot and the router the top of the boot itself. However when I went back to pick it up he instead put some type of material in between the existing soles and the boot. That way I would still have the rubber soles and be able to replace them.

 

[Josh Matta]

thank you so much< contacting him right now.

 

[Philpug]

This thread is one of the things that frustrates me in the ski industry and that is not having standardized for simple things like sole designs. So many companies say they want to be boot fitter friendly yet they do not so something as simple as flat sole designs at the cost of "style" because an sole that has contour to it is more appealing.

It looks like Billy heated up a Cantology shim enough that it matched the contour of the sole. Something I was considering suggesting as an option but was unsure if it would actually work. If that IS what he did to, kudos.

 

[JHust]

This thread is one of the things that frustrates me in the ski industry and that is not having standardized for simple things like sole designs. So many companies say they want to be boot fitter friendly yet they do not so something as simple as flat sole designs at the cost of "style" because an sole that has contour to it is more appealing.

It looks like Billy heated up a Cantology shim enough that it matched the contour of the sole. Something I was considering suggesting as an option but was unsure if it would actually work. If that IS what he did to, kudos.

I'm not sure what exactly he used. I took the sole off so maybe you can tell what he used if that helps.

A little of topic but I have a large instep and the liner was tight since I downsized do to the larger volume. Billy also disassembled the liner and removed padding from the tongue, side and top, then restitched it and put a large stretch material across the entire top.

 

[Will Hansen]

Old thread, but interesting. Billy gets an ataboy for a Cantology-like solution on an otherwise un-cantable boot. He basically cast the cant out of epoxy in-situ. Here’s how he did it:
a) He first did the geometry to figure out what the thickness of the fat side of the cant should be at both the edge of the boot AND at the position of the screws nearest to that edge.
b) Made some shims of the required thickness, essentially paper washers, and sandwiched them on those screws between the tread pads and the shell.
c)Installed and gently tightened the rest of the screws until the gap between the tread pad and shell on the fat side was exactly right
d)Dam three sides of the perimeters of the tread pads with masking tape.
e)with the boot on its side, fat side of cant up, pour or inject epoxy into the gap until all the space between the tread pad and shell is filled.
f) after epoxy sets, grind off any excess, clean up, and route off the lugs.

Neat trick for Atomic, older Solomons, Dalbello, etc.

My concerns would be to use an epoxy that doesn’t shatter in deep cold, and maybe use a release agent on the surfaces and screws so the cant could be removed cleanly if you screw up, epoxy leaks out, etc. Also, PE icemaker tubing might make better spacers.

I fully agree with Phil that boot designers who create convoluted interfaces between tread pads and shell should be taken out behind the shed.

-Will

 

[erdz]

Old thread, but interesting. Billy gets an ataboy for a Cantology-like solution on an otherwise un-cantable boot. He basically cast the cant out of epoxy in-situ. Here’s how he did it:
a) He first did the geometry to figure out what the thickness of the fat side of the cant should be at both the edge of the boot AND at the position of the screws nearest to that edge.
b) Made some shims of the required thickness, essentially paper washers, and sandwiched them on those screws between the tread pads and the shell.
c)Installed and gently tightened the rest of the screws until the gap between the tread pad and shell on the fat side was exactly right
d)Dam three sides of the perimeters of the tread pads with masking tape.
e)with the boot on its side, fat side of cant up, pour or inject epoxy into the gap until all the space between the tread pad and shell is filled.
f) after epoxy sets, grind off any excess, clean up, and route off the lugs.

Neat trick for Atomic, older Solomons, Dalbello, etc.

My concerns would be to use an epoxy that doesn’t shatter in deep cold, and maybe use a release agent on the surfaces and screws so the cant could be removed cleanly if you screw up, epoxy leaks out, etc. Also, PE icemaker tubing might make better spacers.

I fully agree with Phil that boot designers who create convoluted interfaces between tread pads and shell should be taken out behind the shed.

-Will

 

[erdz]

I have also done something similar to a couple of Panterra 130. I used washers to get the angle i wanted and filled in with Devcon plastic welder which sets up hard enough to machine (i have used it before on the top of toe/heel lugs after planing the base. This was before plates existed) The problem now is that the latest iteration of the panterras have an entirely different heel piece which is hollow and cannot be cut down from the top like the pictured model.

 

[Philpug]

The problem now is that the latest iteration of the panterras have an entirely different heel piece which is hollow and cannot be cut down from the top like the pictured model.

This is the problem with many boots now. They want to shed weight (grams) at the cost of being able to work on the boot. They claim to be "bootfitter friendly" but by doing this, the limit extreme canting options or dealing with leg length discrepancies.