djskiing

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I have a pair of skis I bought sight unseen and they have an unbelievable bottom bevel of 7, yes 7 degrees. Is there a fix to get them to 1?
 

Philpug

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Wow...can you return them? If not, base grinds are your only chance to get them flat. That is going to be a lot of basea mterial to get off. BTW, how did you measure them?
 

CalG

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I've got a pair like that as well (may even more base bevel. if it can be true)

Soft snow has been my solution. ;-)
 

ScottB

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As an engineer and a race coach I think I can offer some advice. Basically, Phil is correct, you need to have the skis ground flat. The only way to get back to 1.0 base bevel once you go past it, is to grind the base down to an almost zero bevel. Its more material than would normally be taken off, but its not a big deal to do it. Your base ptex material is about .040 - .060 inches thick. One degree of base edge bevel is about .001 inches. You need to remove .007 inches roughly to be able to get a 1.0 bevel back on the ski. Its roughly 20% of the base thickness. That's a lot of base for a single grind, but it is what it is.

Your only other option is to become a park Rat and learn to ride rails. That is the type of bevel someone might put on a park ski. :roflmao:

No offense intended if you are a park rat. :wag::wag:
 

Jacques

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I have a pair of skis I bought sight unseen and they have an unbelievable bottom bevel of 7, yes 7 degrees. Is there a fix to get them to 1?
7 degree base bevel? That is hard to believe. Were these new, or used skis? What brand and model. Pray tell.
 
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djskiing

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Wow...can you return them? If not, base grinds are your only chance to get them flat. That is going to be a lot of basea mterial to get off. BTW, how did you measure them?

A friend with extensive home ski shop had a device he rocked up from base until it touched the edge. Not sure what it was called.

Thanks for the reply. dj the ski j
 
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djskiing

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As an engineer and a race coach I think I can offer some advice. Basically, Phil is correct, you need to have the skis ground flat. The only way to get back to 1.0 base bevel once you go past it, is to grind the base down to an almost zero bevel. Its more material than would normally be taken off, but its not a big deal to do it. Your base ptex material is about .040 - .060 inches thick. One degree of base edge bevel is about .001 inches. You need to remove .007 inches roughly to be able to get a 1.0 bevel back on the ski. Its roughly 20% of the base thickness. That's a lot of base for a single grind, but it is what it is.

Your only other option is to become a park Rat and learn to ride rails. That is the type of bevel someone might put on a park ski. :roflmao:

No offense intended if you are a park rat. :wag::wag:

No offense taken.....old ski coach here...thanks for the great advice....have to wait for Fall to grind as most shops are off for the summer.

dj the ski j
 
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djskiing

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Wow...can you return them? If not, base grinds are your only chance to get them flat. That is going to be a lot of basea mterial to get off. BTW, how did you measure them?

Got them from Ebay and never thought to check the base bevel......didn't like them that much ,,..only skied them twoice this year.....just thought it was my skiing that needed adjustment as I am always messing with my cants......
 
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djskiing

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I've got a pair like that as well (may even more base bevel. if it can be true)

Soft snow has been my solution. ;-)

No soft snow around here.......new pair of skis is my thought.....after attempting a base grind.

dj the ski j
 

Doug Briggs

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I get skis in the shop that have base bevels approaching 5* and more. Usually they are convex so the high bevel is typically the result of use. This is quite common with coaches skis. The skis require extensive grinding to provide a useful base bevel. Depending on the type of ski, its intended use and the overall condition of the base and edges, it may be only reasonable to approach 1*.

I didn't see an answer to whether the skis were new or not. If these skis were new, or 'like new', someone really screwed up beveling them.

A friend with extensive home ski shop had a device he rocked up from base until it touched the edge. Not sure what it was called.

Thanks for the reply. dj the ski j
Sounds like he used a true bar or straight edge. Every mm of clearance from the base at ~60mm from the edge represents a 1* of bevel. The base has to be flat and true for any measurement system to work for checking bevels. The base is the reference point. It is one of the ways described here: Measuring Edge Bevels
 

James

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I have a pair of skis I bought sight unseen and they have an unbelievable bottom bevel of 7, yes 7 degrees. Is there a fix to get them to 1?
This is why I gave up buying ised unknown skis. Your example is amazingly egregious, but actually fixable. There's a lot of carving type skis that have been essentially ruined by so detuning the tips that they areno longer able to be sharpened. I've seen very expensive Kastles ruined this way. It's very hard to see such things on photos.
My advice, don't buy used skis unless you know the owners attitude towards tuning. The thing is, a turd will sell for $250, but people don't want to pay$350 for a ski with a fantastic tune that's been well taken care of. Better than new actually in terms of base and edges.

Your only other option is to become a park Rat and learn to ride rails. That is the type of bevel someone might put on a park ski. :roflmao:
As I understand it, they would not be happy at all with such a convex base. Too little purchase on the rail. Recently, I was in a shop talking to someone who had his park skis there. The ones for rails. Underfoot was rounded, but front and tail were quite sharp. I was surprised. They were actually probably sharper in that area than my skis at the moment. Skis for half pipe are actually usually quite sharp. Afaik. They want to carve up the side.
 

Eleeski

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Every mm of clearance from the base at ~60mm from the edge represents a 1* of bevel.
I'm not sure this reflects reality. If so, the edge would be worn down below the thickness of the steel for a 7 degree bevel. Just the steel is a much smaller area subject to beveling so your 7 degree bevel (of just the steel) will need a base grind of about .15 mm to get flat (trigonometry assuming the base is flat and the edge is around 1.2mm wide - my measured edge on an available ski). That's a fair amount of base grinding but you will still have ptex left.

Obviously, a convex base will reflect what @Doug Briggs is describing but that's pretty extreme. Likely a combination of both that a good base grind will address. I have never had all the ptex ground away so you should be able to fix things. Just don't do multiple 7 degree base tunes that you change back to 0. Not sure how you can add the convexity?!

You might not be able to grind out a 45 degree beveling or massive rounding of the edges that @James describes. Hopefully yours are fixable.

Get a quality grind, set the bevels to what you want and enjoy the skis.

Eric
 

Doug Briggs

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...
Sounds like he used a true bar or straight edge. Every mm of clearance from the base at ~60mm from the edge represents a 1* of bevel. The base has to be flat and true for any measurement system to work for checking bevels. The base is the reference point. It is one of the ways described here: Measuring Edge Bevels
I'm not sure this reflects reality. If so, the edge would be worn down below the thickness of the steel for a 7 degree bevel. Just the steel is a much smaller area subject to beveling so your 7 degree bevel (of just the steel) will need a base grind of about .15 mm to get flat (trigonometry assuming the base is flat and the edge is around 1.2mm wide - my measured edge on an available ski). That's a fair amount of base grinding but you will still have ptex left.

Obviously, a convex base will reflect what @Doug Briggs is describing but that's pretty extreme. Likely a combination of both that a good base grind will address. I have never had all the ptex ground away so you should be able to fix things. Just don't do multiple 7 degree base tunes that you change back to 0. Not sure how you can add the convexity?!

You might not be able to grind out a 45 degree beveling or massive rounding of the edges that @James describes. Hopefully yours are fixable.

Get a quality grind, set the bevels to what you want and enjoy the skis.

Eric
I guess I didn't state my point clearly. The link I included was intended to illustrate. I think slidewright's information is accurate. If the skis have a 7* bevel then then when the true bar is flush with the edge, the distance from a flat base to the true bar would be 7mm when measured ~60mm from the edge.

The following image was 'borrowed' from the page I linked to.

 

Eleeski

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@Doug Briggs Got it, thanks. My misunderstanding.

I would, however, have a hard time holding a 60 mm straightedge to perfectly match the bevel on about 1mm of edge (is the entire steel even beveled?) projected out. I could get a pretty good idea if it's 1 or 7 but I'm not sure my accuracy of measurement would discern 1 vs .5 degrees - especially with uneven wear.

At least it's a good way to get an idea - if my kid with good eyes and a steady hand helps.

Eric
 

Doug Briggs

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@Doug Briggs Got it, thanks. My misunderstanding.

I would, however, have a hard time holding a 60 mm straightedge to perfectly match the bevel on about 1mm of edge (is the entire steel even beveled?) projected out. I could get a pretty good idea if it's 1 or 7 but I'm not sure my accuracy of measurement would discern 1 vs .5 degrees - especially with uneven wear.

At least it's a good way to get an idea - if my kid with good eyes and a steady hand helps.

Eric
:beercheer:

I concur, that it is a difficult measurement, but with practice it gets easier. A strong back light, a steady hand and good vision are essential. The problem with any device to measure bevels is that you need a flat base to start.

I find that skis with base bevels above 1* typically have rounded edges. That makes an accurate bevel reading impossible but also makes obvious that the edge is in poor condition to start. Any rounding of the edge requires a lot of material removal, both base and edge, to bring it back to a desirable condition.
 
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Wilhelmson

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Good excuse to buy the ski visions base tool. With your luck just don't buy a used one on ebay.
 

Doug Briggs

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Good excuse to buy the ski visions base tool. With your luck just don't buy a used one on ebay.
How long would a hand tool take to remove enough material to correct a 7* base bevel? And does the tool work on the steel edges? Or do you have to alternate between filing and base removal? It would take well over an hour for the Wintersteiger Scout to flatten a ski that bad.

Edit: these are not rhetorical questions. I've never use the ski visions base tool and am curious.
 

Doug Briggs

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There is a steel cutter bar that you can supposedly cut the edges with. Would I attempt to flatten the base that much by hand? Not in this lifetime.
It might take a lifetime to do by hand even with an edge cutting tool. ogsmile
 

Sibhusky

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There had been two tools, but apparently the faster tool is out of production: https://www.slidewright.com/skivisions-file-base-flattener/

I've got this baby, but have rarely used the steel bar, only for cutting raised P-Tex: http://skivisions.us/504.html

"The steel blade requires some skill and care when using it, but it is a powerful blade that can slice through steel and plastic on ski bases simultaneously and can be re-sharpened an infinite number of times (see "Stone/Steel Inserts Maintenance). However, we now prefer using the File Base Flattener on metal edges and just use the steel blade for final finish on the p-tex."
 
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