Could we live now like it was the 1960's?

[Philpug]

We see a lot of threads come up regarding cost of living, travel and just trying to make ends meet and threads like the purging thread made me think of this. In the 1960's (just using a reference decade) just dad worked and mom stayed home. Cars were paid cash for and all that was really financed was the house. Most families had one car and one television. Many times kids shared rooms, most houses had one bathroom that all shared. There was not the cell phones, cable bills, internet bills, multiple cars, computers and other expensive electronic devices. As kids we had a bike and we went as far as that would take us, there were no travel teams in sports.

Living with aout all of these niceties now is almost living off of the grid. I respect that it would be tough for kids because many schools do so much electronicly now but would it be possible. Just a thought to discuss and bounce ideas back and forth.

 

[Bill Miles]

They only had slow chairs!

No pugski on the internet!

 

[Philpug]

No pugski on the internet!

/end thread. Never mind

 

[CalG]

We see a lot of threads come up regarding cost of living, travel and just trying to make ends meet and threads like the purging thread made me think of this. In the 1960's (just using a reference decade) just dad worked and mom stayed home. Cars were paid cash for and all that was really financed was the house. Most families had one car and one television. Many times kids shared rooms, most houses had one bathroom that all shared. There was not the cell phones, cable bills, internet bills, multiple cars, computers and other expensive electronic devices. As kids we had a bike and we went as far as that would take us, there were no travel teams in sports.

Living with aout all of these niceties now is almost living off of the grid. I respect that it would be tough for kids because many schools do so much electronicly now but would it be possible. Just a thought to discuss and bounce ideas back and forth.

Hey! I resemble those remarks!

And look what happened to me

Worse! Look what happened to my kids. All three of them fine members of society!
Heck, My kids (t my wife and I included) didn't even have a TV until the youngest "just had to" keep up with M. Jordan and basketball. ;-)

 

[Bad Bob]

Would happily give up most of that stuff in a heartbeat. Our home has one TV that gets watched. Tonight friends came over and we played cards and laughed a lot. Would happily give up a lot of the electronics if I didn't have to work with them on the job.

In the 60's I grew up in the folks weren't rich by any means, but we had:
2 cars.
1 1/2 baths at least.
2 or more TV's if we were living in the States.
a Sears credit card.
1 pair of skis per person.

I could live that way again.

 

[François Pugh]

I googled up some numbers:
$6,900 1965 family income (usually 1 person working)
$2,752 1965 new car (only need 1) 145 days of work
$20,700 1965 house cost 3 years of work
$62,175 2018 average income (usually two people working)
35,742 2018 car cost (need 2nd car for wife to drive to work) 210 days of work
240,000 2018 house cost 3.8 years of work
Gasoline 31 cents per US gallon in '65.

Most folk were better off then.
CEOs are better off now. 843,000 then versus 15,600,000 now.

 

[Jacob]

There was not the cell phones, cable bills, internet bills, multiple cars, computers and other expensive electronic devices.

Don't forget all of the subscriptions that go along with the electronic devices (in addition to the cable bills). Subscriptions for listening to music, watching movies, and so on. That and all of the data usage that hits you in the wallet one way or another.

Like "death from a thousand cuts," I like to think of it as poverty from a thousand recurring charges.

 

[AmyPJ]

I call the McMansions sprouting like weeds in my neighborhood "symbols of American Excess".

I do think my grandparents, the last one who passed in 2007, would be mortified at how much things have changed just since then. But especially since the 60s and 70s. They saved and fixed EVERYTHING. Now, we just throw stuff away and buy a new one. But, things aren't made to last like they should, either. (Computer printers, I'm looking at you!)

 

[scott43]

Don't forget all of the subscriptions that go along with the electronic devices (in addition to the cable bills). Subscriptions for listening to music, watching movies, and so on. That and all of the data usage that hits you in the wallet one way or another.

Like "death from a thousand cuts," I like to think of it as poverty from a thousand recurring charges.

I'm looking at you Peloton!!!!

 

[Jim McDonald]

Friends made plans, and stuck to them -- no mobile phones

 

[scott43]

I think people's expectations have changed too though..can't look in isolation. My grandfather built a house in 1940 with a back-house (outhouse). That was not abnormal at that time. That's only 20 years before the 60's. The house I'm in now didn't have indoor plumbing when built in the 40's. So yes we have more things but perhaps resonably so. We had terrible air pollution and almost no environmental laws. Those things cost money.

My mom insists things were easier for her generation..no nickel and diming on all the little costs that eat away at our pay cheques. Less expectation. I think the conversion of housing stock into a global commodity has hurt people who actually have to live somewhere. In the late 60's Canada started allowing two incomes as collateral against a mortgage which pretty much ensured people had to have two earners to afford a house. Back then, houses typically cost 2.5x salary..now it's over 6x. So I'm inclined to agree with her.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

I love and hate social media but I miss the olden days pre social media when we all talked to each other. I was a small kid in the 70s and have hours of memories of playing outside all day long. Kids don't do that any more. Life was definitely simpler back in the day. We still only have 1 TV. I honestly can't imagine living without car navigation and smart phones. Beer is much better nowadays.

 

[Jim Kenney]

One of my brothers has owned a good-sized beach house near Cape Hatteras, NC for about 25 yrs. He uses it every summer for about a month, but also rents it out for part of the year. We still get together down there most summers. He will chuckle/gripe about the amenities and upgrades the property managers urge him to add to the house to keep attracting renters. He first discovered the area when he was stationed at nearby Camp Lejeune while serving in the Marine Corps in the 1970s. I would go down there with my parents and six or seven of us would rent a primitive little three bedroom rambler/cottage. It had no AC, no tv, few neighbors, not many restaurants or motels nearby, but it was on the front row of the ocean. We'd spend the whole day outdoors beside the ocean, then grill some food over charcoals, eat on the porch looking at the ocean, play a board game after dark, and go to sleep listening through open windows to waves breaking on the shore. Still, there are some advances that would have been helpful - sunblock

By the way, my nomination for an unsung invention that's had a huge impact on everyday life: the microwave oven. If they eventually find out it's been giving us all cancer and/or dementia I'll retract my nomination.

 

[SShore]

I grew up in the 60's and am always telling my brother how lucky we were to be kids back then. We actually PLAYED OUTSIDE, used our imagine and creativity to invent games and activities to keep ourselves amused, learned our life lessons from Buggs, Elmer and Daffy instead of Bert, Ernie and Elmo, rode our bike pretty much wherever and whenever we wanted, played pickup baseball and football with whatever kids you could savage together from the neighborhood. And we did all of this without helicopter mom's and dad's constantly telling us how, when, where to play, to BE CAREFUL, to play fair, etc. etc. We actually figured all of that out by ourselves, formed relationships, learned how to communicate, compromise, persuade. lead, follow. We were very lucky.

 

[Jacob]

Living with aout all of these niceties now is almost living off of the grid. I respect that it would be tough for kids because many schools do so much electronicly now but would it be possible. Just a thought to discuss and bounce ideas back and forth.

Going back to the original question, I definitely think it's possible, but it would be difficult to persuade people to do it.

It's like trying to persuade someone who's used to having a big house and big SUV to move into an apartment and switch to a small car. I'm sure most people would be able to easily cope with the change if you made them, but you'd struggle to find many who are willing to do it voluntarily, despite the money they would save.

 

[fatbob]

Going back to the original question, I definitely think it's possible, but it would be difficult to persuade people to do it.

It's like trying to persuade someone who's used to having a big house and big SUV to move into an apartment and switch to a small car. I'm sure most people would be able to easily cope with the change if you made them, but you'd struggle to find many who are willing to do it voluntarily, despite the money they would save.

This. Small c capitalism is intrinsically built on consumerism which means ultimately people maxing out on their personal consumption (of space, fossil fuels etc etc). That's why I think the Extinction Rebellion people have their work cut out - easy to get millennials on board with the core message, less easy to get them to give up their avocado on toast because of food miles.

 

[Eleeski]

A couple years ago there was a regional power outage. The radio was talking about what a disaster we were in the middle of. We barbecued dinner by candle light and watched the stars. Disaster? How much do we really need?

I googled up some numbers:
$6,900 1965 family income (usually 1 person working)
$2,752 1965 new car (only need 1) 145 days of work
$20,700 1965 house cost 3 years of work
$62,175 2018 average income (usually two people working)
35,742 2018 car cost (need 2nd car for wife to drive to work) 210 days of work
240,000 2018 house cost 3.8 years of work
Gasoline 31 cents per US gallon in '65.

Most folk were better off then.
CEOs are better off now. 843,000 then versus 15,600,000 now.

That's a little misleading. The crappiest new Kia is more luxurious (and safer) than an old Cadillac. Houses are more comfortable and safer now (expensive things like heating, cooling, safe plumbing, appliances, handicap standards that we age into needing, fire resistance and so much more). Even our work conditions are better.

Almost everybody is better off than in the 60s. Including people struggling to get by.

Whether this translates into more happiness is another question.

Eric

 

[Jacob]

This. Small c capitalism is intrinsically built on consumerism which means ultimately people maxing out on their personal consumption (of space, fossil fuels etc etc). That's why I think the Extinction Rebellion people have their work cut out - easy to get millennials on board with the core message, less easy to get them to give up their avocado on toast because of food miles.

I was thinking more in terms of getting people to give up their electronic devices. As @surfsnowgirl mentioned, she can’t imagine living without satnav in her car. Although that’s a very useful and convenient device, I think there a lot of things that don’t really add much value to life and some that actually seem to make a lot of people less happy without them realising it.

But, people feel like they need these things, and they would be very reluctant to give them up.

(The irony is that I say this as someone who works in IT.)

 

[Jacob]

BTW @surfsnowgirl, I can imagine living without satnav, but that’s because I grew up in Tulsa, OK. Talk about a a gridded road system.

 

[James]

Yeah, who'd live with 50-60hp these days.

I call the McMansions sprouting like weeds in my neighborhood "symbols of American Excess".

I do think my grandparents, the last one who passed in 2007, would be mortified at how much things have changed just since then. But especially since the 60s and 70s. They saved and fixed EVERYTHING. Now, we just throw stuff away and buy a new one. But, things aren't made to last like they should, either. (Computer printers, I'm looking at you!)

A lot of people don't have time either to fix things. That activity has been replaced by ?

Friends made plans, and stuck to them -- no mobile phones

Always amazes me thinking back. Even in nyc before cell phones, we managed to somehow meet up. Now we use phones if 100 yards away.

I had my niece, who's in her twenty's, tell me to use "find my iphone" to locate her at the train station. That because she didn't know where north was. I told her no, go ask someone. (This is on the cell phone of course) There were only two choices in that situation. Before phones, she would have found the north side easily.