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Colnago

Tony S

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Isn’t that kind of the definition of Italian design?

Had a visceral reaction to this at first: No! (I'm Italian, and definitely not gaudy.) Then I started thinking about it and decided you were right. :eek:

My reference classic lugged frame is a demure Raleigh. So ... I guess I'm not that Italian after all.
 

SShore

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Had a visceral reaction to this at first: No! (I'm Italian, and definitely not gaudy.) Then I started thinking about it and decided you were right. :eek:

My reference classic lugged frame is a demure Raleigh. So ... I guess I'm not that Italian after all.

Hey, don’t get me wrong. I LOVE Italian design. The very best in bikes, cars, art, architecture are all Italian. The very fact that it is a bit gaudy only makes it that much more appealing
 

Bill Talbot

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Being in the vintage bike world, I'm a bit of a outsider because I don't think all that pedals should be Italian. I actually only have three bikes from Italy. A mid 60's Bianchi Specialissima, early 80's Guerc SR and an early 90'sChesini Arena. They make some fine bikes but much hype prevails in Italian culture...
 

SShore

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Being in the vintage bike world, I'm a bit of a outsider because I don't think all that pedals should be Italian. I actually only have three bikes from Italy. A mid 60's Bianchi Specialissima, early 80's Guerc SR and an early 90'sChesini Arena. They make some fine bikes but much hype prevails in Italian culture...

I really loved Frenchs bike and components too, but unfortunately, they have all gone by the wayside. Loved the fact that they had their own standards and gave the rest of the world their gallic middle finger. Of course, that probably has a lot to do with why they are no longer around. Some of that Mavic stuff from the 80's was sensational.
 
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scott43

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As a mechanic, I can tell you the multiple standards was a huge pain in the ass! Good riddance. Italian BB's were the dumbest thing ever. Still, as SShore says, not a lot of choice back then..most of the best stuff was Italian..
 

SShore

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As a mechanic, I can tell you the multiple standards was a huge pain in the ass! Good riddance. Italian BB's were the dumbest thing ever. Still, as SShore says, not a lot of choice back then..most of the best stuff was Italian..

that was back when bike shops actually carried large stocks of parts and it was an expensive pain for them to have to have the same bottom bracket in English, French and Italian threading. Not to mention expensive for the manufacturers to have to make all three. If I remember correctly, one of them was even threaded backwards.
 

Bill Talbot

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Pix if anyone is interested...

Bianchi003.jpg
bigGuerc.jpg
Chesini 1.jpg
 
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scott43

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that was back when bike shops actually carried large stocks of parts and it was an expensive pain for them to have to have the same bottom bracket in English, French and Italian threading. Not to mention expensive for the manufacturers to have to make all three. If I remember correctly, one of them was even threaded backwards.
Italian BB's were both right-hand thread..unfortunately, that meant the crank side naturally tried to loosen..so you have to be careful to make sure it NEVER came loose..because if you bunged the threads, the frame was scrap, unless you picked up one of the non-threaded BB's that were $300. The english BB's were left-hand on the crank side and never came loose.
 

cantunamunch

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Isn’t that kind of the definition of Italian design?

Nope. Witness. Here is an Alan Record Carbonio. Simple. Lugged. Very Italian.

post-4884-0-22770600-1359704358.jpg


(Yes, I have one and yes they are supposed to have 7400 DA on them with a 25.0 mm Campy seatpost. )

Now here is the exact same frame with a different fork, painted in Colnago colours for Rominger to ride:

bianchi-reparto-corse-el-vintage-classic-bike-9_1.jpg


The whole complete-Campy-group is a US-expectation fetish. Along with the paintjobs on later Carbitubos.

Changing the fork out was the one good thing Colnago did to that frame; the Vitus fork on the Alan-badged frames was a vibrating twitchy useless piece of cr@p.

P.S. The headsets shown in both those pics were second choice - first choice would have been a needle-bearing Stronglight.
 
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SShore

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I always thought Vitus built those frames for Alan and they were therefore French. Guess I was wrong.
 

cantunamunch

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that was back when bike shops actually carried large stocks of parts and it was an expensive pain for them to have to have the same bottom bracket in English, French and Italian threading. Not to mention expensive for the manufacturers to have to make all three. .

You forgot Swiss threading.

OFC, having English threading meant using two different thread chasing tools per bike - so Italian threading was actually more affordable in terms of bike shop outlay (and frame builder error!)

I always thought Vitus built those frames for Alan and they were therefore French. Guess I was wrong.

*shrug* if you're making the argument that Franco-Italian design is simpler-lined than just Italian, you might be right.

My point being mostly that a major market for Italian frames (the US) had certain definite expectations, and (IMO) complete-Campy-gruppos and gaudy frame decor were there to sell bikes to people with those expectations.

Some of that Mavic stuff from the 80's was sensational.

I still have a full stash of Stronglight cranks, rings and headsets. Can't really speak to Mavic - back in my Alan/Bianchi riding days I was mostly on Ofmega pedals and rims.
 
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Tony S

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Okay, so Muleski only has a top drawer, Talbot only has an attic, and Tuna just knows more arcane detail about everything than anyone should.
 
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scott43

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Yeah..we had Campy and Dura Ace..then Mavic came out with these bad boys and changed the whole game...
FE417E2E-9FAE-47F8-BA90-CAEEA7639C89.jpeg
 
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scott43

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Vitus were a nightmare..I had a 979..used to creak and groan and wobbled at high speed like a drunken sailor on leave.. However..super light! :D
 

SShore

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Vitus were a nightmare..I had a 979..used to creak and groan and wobbled at high speed like a drunken sailor on leave.. However..super light! :D

I always found it amazing that Sean Kelly raced that frame rather successfully.
 

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