Cold/Numb Toes Problem

[Uncle-A]

Why is it Mamie's gadget when I am the one who made them up?

View attachment 94256

That looks interesting, it must work well for long chair rides as long as it doesn't get caught in the chair.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Yep, we have a DryGuy DX boot dryer that we put the boots on as soon as we get home from the mountain. And I have a heated Kulkea bag. And it's just my toes, not the rest of my foot. If I touch the arch of my foot, it's normal temperature, if I touch my toes, they are quite cold to the touch. I think some kind of blood vessel or nerve on the top of my foot is likely getting compressed. I haven't had time to go back to my bootfitter to see what they recommend, but will in the next several weeks.

As i've been reading this thread, the bolded above has been my impression. There's a nerve that can get compressed if the ceiling of the clog is too low over your forefoot. That may be the issue, as it can cause toes to get cold and tingly. Morton's Neuroma, maybe related, can cause toes to go cold, then to sting insistently, then to go numb, then to explode with hot lava (well, that's how it feels).

 

[laine]

@laine do you use the foot rest on the lifts?

To echo @Pequenita - we don't have any footrests in Tahoe!!! I grew up skiing in VT and I miss them (even if I was too short to use them at times)!

@laine curious if when you used the touring boots a few weeks ago if they were any different? Did they cause similar issues ?
When I went touring in the rental boots, I didn't have any cold toe issues (and it was 50* outside). But they were so packed out, I had other issues, like actually trying to control/give feedback to the ski. So the first thing I did was buy new touring boots that fit my feet, as I enjoyed it enough to know that I want to do it again. Now I did ski those new boots for the first time at the resort this past Sunday - demoing some potential backcountry skis (Elan Ripstick 102 - though I would prefer the 94 - just not avail to demo). I wanted to get some snow time in the new boots - and not be out in the backcountry if something was really painful, since it was Day 1 in them.

I did get some toe coldness compared with the rest of my foot, but not as much as in my Alpine boots. They also don't fit as snug - I'm still trying to dial them in. I'm actually going to take them back to the resort on Sat - as I'm demoing two (maybe three) other potential backcountry skis (Icelantic Mystic 97, DPS Yvette 100, and hopefully Armada Trace 98), so I'm going to pay close attention.

There's a nerve that can get compressed if the ceiling of the clog is too low over your forefoot. That may be the issue, as it can cause toes to get cold and tingly. Morton's Neuroma, maybe related, can cause toes to go cold, then to sting insistently, then to go numb, then to explode with hot lava (well, that's how it feels).

I agree that this is probably the culprit - just not sure what to do about it, since when I sit on the lift, I'm guessing my boot is pushing down on that nerve. Maybe I should try @KingGrump's gadget so that I don't have that extra pressure from the lift. I do think it's also partially my boots as well, as I went heliskiiing in January (no lifts), and had the same issue. It's just that I don't feel any specific pressure points in my boots. Frankly, they fit like a glove - maybe the glove is too snug?

I'm not sure it's necessarily Morton's Neuroma, since I did some googling (isn't that how we diagnose all medical issues these days?) and out of this list: https://www.mortonsneuroma.com/blog/10-signs-may-mortons-neuroma/ - I only have #1 and it's only when skiing.

 

[LiquidFeet]

To combat my proclivity for Morton's Neuroma acting up on both feet, my current bootfitter (and bootfitters in the past) have added a small shim under my ball-of-foot on the footbed. This lifts the center of the foot where the metatarsal heads line up, thus separating them. This separation keeps them from pinching any nerves that are nestled in between the bones. The foot is full of little stringly nerves and tendons and thin muscles; it's very complex in form. That little shim has stopped the stinging and the numbness and the hot lava from flowing for me.

I remember one pivotal moment on the slopes when the hot lava feeling was so dramatic that I stoped skiing in the middle of a trail and took one foot out of its boot. There was immediate relief. I propped my foot on my ski to avoid snow getting on my sock. I was high on the mountain and let me tell you, getting that ski back on was a bear of a challenge.

 

[Dwight]

New Atomic Hawks last year and toes have been getting colder than previous boots. Tonight I had the opportunity to play with my buckles. I was able to adjust the arch buckle to be smug but not over tight. Feet stayed warmer and we had single digit Temps too. @laine I hope you find a solution. I was glad to read this thread for me.

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

I remember one pivotal moment on the slopes when the hot lava feeling was so dramatic that I stoped skiing in the middle of a trail and took one foot out of its boot. There was immediate relief. I propped my foot on my ski to avoid snow getting on my sock. I was high on the mountain and let me tell you, getting that ski back on was a bear of a challenge.

Been there, done that. I can remember that pain and the horror on the faces of everyone skiing with me that day at Alta. In my case, I had way too many "adjustments" on my boots. During that trip, I ripped out my heel lifts and a bunch of padding and skied boots that were too big but more comfortable without the crap. I do have a Morton's Neuroma on my right foot and a neuroma bump on my footbed helps with that. It sure doesn't take much to cause that lack of circulation foot pain. @laine this is actually a good suggestion. It doesn't help with my left foot which is not a neuroma issue, but a neuroma is worth looking into. My only neuroma symptom is pain while skiing and occasional trigger toe. There are stretches that help with the neuroma so if that is your problem, they may help.

 

[laine]

Been there, done that. I can remember that pain and the horror on the faces of everyone skiing with me that day at Alta. In my case, I had way too many "adjustments" on my boots. During that trip, I ripped out my heel lifts and a bunch of padding and skied boots that were too big but more comfortable without the crap. I do have a Morton's Neuroma on my right foot and a neuroma bump on my footbed helps with that. It sure doesn't take much to cause that lack of circulation foot pain. @laine this is actually a good suggestion. It doesn't help with my left foot which is not a neuroma issue, but a neuroma is worth looking into. My only neuroma symptom is pain while skiing and occasional trigger toe. There are stretches that help with the neuroma so if that is your problem, they may help.

Thanks all. I'll look into that as well. I'm assuming it's something I would go to a podiatrist for?

 

[LiquidFeet]

Or a bootfitter with some knowledge. I've been to two podiatrists for various things, but never for the neuroma. Bootfitters have diagnosed it and put the "neuroma bumps" under my various footbeds over the years. I've added my own under the footbeds in my running shoes. I now keep track of when the neuroma issues resurface, and they mostly happen in green season when I'm running. Adjusting the added material under my ball-of-foot area (the bump) fixes them.

 

[gwasson]

One nice feature of Salomon boots, is that there are 3 different positions for the buckle that closes over your instep. You might want to look at those as it sounds to me like that buckle is causing the blood flow issues. Just a hunch.

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

Thanks all. I'll look into that as well. I'm assuming it's something I would go to a podiatrist for?

Yes. Try that for sure. My doc wouldn’t refer me because the neuroma isn’t a “problem” since it only bothers me when I’m skiing. Bootfitter put in the neuroma bump and I changed doctors.

 

[Bolder]

This is a fascinating thread as I have very high instep AND recurring Morton's neuroma. And I've always had cold extremities, even as a kid. I've played around with boot setup and this is what I've found:
--I have narrow heels so I have to make sure they are really seated in the heel cup. that can involve lots of whacking about...
--first buckle, over toes, only on first detente -- zero pressure, lets toes wiggle up and down
--second buckle, barely tighter, normally second detente. It's right on top of the instep so if I can feel the pressure there I know for sure I'll have numb/cold toes
--third buckle seems to be the wildcard: some days I can really crank it down, other days I'll have to flip up on the lift,
--fourth buckle: I can crank it down so long as the third buckle is not as tight as it could be
--powerstrap: makes no difference
--socks -- super thin doesn't keep me warm; too thick and my instep is pinched, thus cold/numb toes. Medium weight it is. I've also tried thin socks with ultrathin liners but that's worse.

I ski in Europe so it's rarely really cold but if I planned on skiing a lot below 20 deg f. I'd get heated socks. I had heated boots way back in the day (late 80s) and they worked just ok.