Please forgive this response for its imperfections.
...but I'm confused. Are you saying that the demonstrator's job is not to demonstrate a standard model?! If the PSIA's interski team cannot present the US approach to skiing, where every other nation presents their approach to skiing, what are they there for? I get that the US has a big population, but the PSIA is already a national body; it has the platform and implicit authority to create a PSIA approach to skiing.
That said, I am really glad that some demonstrators are teaching skiers to use speed control (progressive drift) at the top of the turn rather than grinding through the bottom to slow down. Acceleration at the end of the turn allows for more options for change of direction, line, and turn shape, with better balance through the top of the arc.
Regarding expertise, there is no High King of Ski Levels (although some organizations do have things like an "intermediate parallel turn" or an "advanced parallel turn"). This makes judgement of expertise subjective. Expertise was extensively discussed in EpicSki, and as you can tell, no international consensus has formed. Personally, I think of skiing expertise as how well a skier demonstrates compared to instructor levels, where a level 2=intermediate, 3=advanced, and 4=expert. Some folks think of expertise in terms of the 1-9 levels, where an 8-9 is expert. Other folks think of expertise in terms of hucking cliffs or doing inverted aerials.
Picture the skier who claims to be an an expert, but can't ski a performance turn at higher speeds, can't ski bumps, can't ski a glade run, can't maintain balance in powder, and can't ski steeps... Are they an expert? In their own mind, sure. To me, well, not really.
As for the skier who skis slowly, but can ski most of the mountain: That was me 7 years ago when I taught in Whistler as a level 2 instructor. At the time I thought I was "advanced"; now I feel I was a middling intermediate with great survival skills. And I would go out on a limb to say that the Clandenin camp can probably raise a lower intermediate up to that point. And lots of folks would be happy with that. Realistically, that's probably a tall order for a typical 10 day/year skier anyway. But the next step for a skier at that level, if they choose to take it on, is to develop their skiing to enable some performance.
To me, advanced and expert skiing are connected to performance. Sure, an expert can ski without performance. I see level 4s do it all the time. They sometimes even ski with some of those intermediate movements, like turning up the hill, because it's actually a fun feeling to be on a carve and feel that pressure. One of my favourite level 4s does "loopy turns" that do take the skier back up the hill, and it's very enjoyable. But to me, the expert must be able to ski with performance, which means skiing with more efficient movements that enable higher performance and better terrain management.
And so when we're talking about moving from intermediate to (what I consider) advanced or expert skiing, that's where I see some of the Clandenin movements as problematic. From a learning psychology perspective, the things we learn first, we tend to learn best. If you learn these Clandenin tactics, they will become your go-to tactics and it will take more effort later to replace them. There are two cases where I think Clandenin courses might be a good option for lower intermediates:
Anyway, I think I've now beaten the horse to death on Clandenin, the idea of expertise, and drifting the top of the arc. Bedtime, then back on snow tomorrow morning for more turns.
To give some context: My reason for bringing up the organization as a whole is that LF and Josh Matta both present the same argument in favor of turning up the hill as how advanced skiers ski, as do many other PSIA instructors. I had jumped to the conclusion that PSIA was internally consistent. Please forgive me for that error.It isn't fair to take one demonstrators skiing and interpret it as the method advocated by the organization they are affiliated with.
...but I'm confused. Are you saying that the demonstrator's job is not to demonstrate a standard model?! If the PSIA's interski team cannot present the US approach to skiing, where every other nation presents their approach to skiing, what are they there for? I get that the US has a big population, but the PSIA is already a national body; it has the platform and implicit authority to create a PSIA approach to skiing.
That said, I am really glad that some demonstrators are teaching skiers to use speed control (progressive drift) at the top of the turn rather than grinding through the bottom to slow down. Acceleration at the end of the turn allows for more options for change of direction, line, and turn shape, with better balance through the top of the arc.
Great. I myself have experienced instruction from the CSIA, PMTS, the CSCF, and some Italians, so I share your openness. As you are open to other approaches to ski instruction, I'll point out that it's worthwhile to explore this concept of gliding and drifting into the top of the arc for your speed control. It's not the only way to ski... but I'd say it gives you more options for managing speed and shaping the turn while allowing you to stay in balance. (I say this based on my experience and observations of having done both.)Like you, I used to yearn for total consistency. I still do in some ways. But I've discovered that creating, maintaining, and enforcing that consistency has major issues. There are advantages to tolerating, and even celebrating, diverging approaches to ski instruction and personal skiing.
Wade, I'd say it's important to differentiate between enjoyment and expertise. Many skiers ski slowly and fully enjoy themselves. And yes, you should enjoy the way you move on skis. The reason we ski is to have fun. And to be blunt, aside from your parents and spouse, very few people actually care how well you ski. Even your ski gang, in their heart of hearts, really only cares enough that you can keep up. When your goal is to just have fun as you ski now, definitely keep using the movements that you use.I sure hope speed and dynamics don't determine expert skiing... whew, what if people like to ski slowly, smoothly and massage the snow. Shouldn't we use the movements we find to work best to experience the sensations we enjoy?
Regarding expertise, there is no High King of Ski Levels (although some organizations do have things like an "intermediate parallel turn" or an "advanced parallel turn"). This makes judgement of expertise subjective. Expertise was extensively discussed in EpicSki, and as you can tell, no international consensus has formed. Personally, I think of skiing expertise as how well a skier demonstrates compared to instructor levels, where a level 2=intermediate, 3=advanced, and 4=expert. Some folks think of expertise in terms of the 1-9 levels, where an 8-9 is expert. Other folks think of expertise in terms of hucking cliffs or doing inverted aerials.
Picture the skier who claims to be an an expert, but can't ski a performance turn at higher speeds, can't ski bumps, can't ski a glade run, can't maintain balance in powder, and can't ski steeps... Are they an expert? In their own mind, sure. To me, well, not really.
As for the skier who skis slowly, but can ski most of the mountain: That was me 7 years ago when I taught in Whistler as a level 2 instructor. At the time I thought I was "advanced"; now I feel I was a middling intermediate with great survival skills. And I would go out on a limb to say that the Clandenin camp can probably raise a lower intermediate up to that point. And lots of folks would be happy with that. Realistically, that's probably a tall order for a typical 10 day/year skier anyway. But the next step for a skier at that level, if they choose to take it on, is to develop their skiing to enable some performance.
To me, advanced and expert skiing are connected to performance. Sure, an expert can ski without performance. I see level 4s do it all the time. They sometimes even ski with some of those intermediate movements, like turning up the hill, because it's actually a fun feeling to be on a carve and feel that pressure. One of my favourite level 4s does "loopy turns" that do take the skier back up the hill, and it's very enjoyable. But to me, the expert must be able to ski with performance, which means skiing with more efficient movements that enable higher performance and better terrain management.
And so when we're talking about moving from intermediate to (what I consider) advanced or expert skiing, that's where I see some of the Clandenin movements as problematic. From a learning psychology perspective, the things we learn first, we tend to learn best. If you learn these Clandenin tactics, they will become your go-to tactics and it will take more effort later to replace them. There are two cases where I think Clandenin courses might be a good option for lower intermediates:
- You just want to ski the whole mountain and you don't plan to progress beyond the intermediate level, or
- You want to ski the whole mountain, and you are are OK with the idea that you may need to work harder later to reconcile the Clandenin stuff with new knowledge down the road
Anyway, I think I've now beaten the horse to death on Clandenin, the idea of expertise, and drifting the top of the arc. Bedtime, then back on snow tomorrow morning for more turns.