Classic PSIA Medium-Radius Turn

[Tim Hodgson]

Tim, have you had anyone look at your boot set up?

Nope. 15-year old Lange L10's I weigh 200 lbs and am 5' 10" tall.

Wait that was a little flippant. The shells and liners that I am in now may have been manufactured 15 years ago but they sat unused in a guy from San Diego's closet until he posted them on craigslist. They replaced my truly then 10-year old Lange L10's of the same vintage in which I had truly worn out the liner.

I have been doing my own boot fitting for comfort only. As far as performance fitting goes, I really don't trust anyone whom I have met. And if I do not know what my feet are actually supposed to be doing in the turn, in the bumps, on terrain, etc., how would I know if the boots are impeding my performance? I will listen to anybody and think through their advice own my own later, but I have trust issues when it comes to equipment recommendations.

 

[markojp]

Nope. 15-year old Lange L10's I weigh 200 lbs and am 5' 10" tall.

Get it looked at. Seriously. It's important and you care about all this too much to ignore it any longer. It sounds like you're having sagital balance issues (fore and aft) and an old boot with a bunch of forward lean (not good or bad, just depends on your anatomy) might be preventing you from accessing basic movements and range of motion. Get the lateral checked too! If the shoe isn't good, all the 'start from the feet in the boot' advice and coaching won't do a bit of good. You'll still be limited to compensating and making big movements to control your snow/ski interaction. There's nothing subtle about poor boots. It's unfortunately a common occurance in plateaued L1 and 2's.

 

[Tim Hodgson]

markojp: Doesn't someone who understands boots need to see me ski first? If not, if you can pm me with a recommendation for one or more boot fitters in the Tahoe area I would appreciate it. And must the particular skis I have compliment or be consistent with the boot characteristics?

I promise that I will look into boots this Spring/Summer but I have seen my colleagues go willy nilly from one boot fad (i.e., Fischer vacuum) to another with no rhyme or reason to me. Not saying that I ski better than them. I don't. But they spend allot of money on boots.

And funny that you mention it, one of the smooth effortless, old school skiers I skied with at Mammoth last weekend questioned if my boots (as a Race boot) had too much forward lean for the type of skiing I am trying to achieve...

 

[markojp]

A good trainer/training director would certainly have people she/he'd recommend. It's always great to have skied with your fitter on the hill, but your trainer/coach should be able to call his fitter and say, "Tim's got X going on and I'm sending him over for you to have a look." Which trainer is the best on your staff to help you? Your SS director should know. If you have any video of you skiing, show it to the fitter as well. Locally, you have @otto here and @Philpug that can certainly help you out. You're standing next to a pretty tasty pond. Drink man, drink! There aren't too many L3's that haven't had some attention, and sometimes a great deal of attention, given to their boots. You can compensate, but you can't hide when you're doing an exam.

FWIW, there's nothing wrong with a race boot so long as it fits accurately, is aligned correctly, has a good foundation (footbed), and you can flex your ankle. And yes, your ski/binding/boot combo needs to work together, but there's a large range of skis that'll do the job.

 

[skier]

Allot of mogul skiers use lots of rotary for nicely brushed and smeared turns, and many of them hunt down boots with forward lean that's hard to find in the market today. So, I find it hard to believe that forward lean would hold you back for the turns you are describing. Too much forward lean is bad for carving beautiful arcs without smearing which is maybe one reason the trend has moved more upright. Canting is what you need to get checked out. But it seems impossible to get any work done without a footbed these days.

 

[James]

Random comments on forward lean may or may not apply to the op. Well, I suspect they do, but it's hard to know which way. Fwiw, I had two Lange plugs - one downsized that had too much forward lean, the other that just did not have enough forward lean and drove me crazy.
(Lots of things can happen if you go down a shell size and have basically no space on a shell fit.)

 

[markojp]

Allot of mogul skiers use lots of rotary for nicely brushed and smeared turns, and many of them hunt down boots with forward lean that's hard to find in the market today. So, I find it hard to believe that forward lean would hold you back for the turns you are describing. Too much forward lean is bad for carving beautiful arcs without smearing which is maybe one reason the trend has moved more upright. Canting is what you need to get checked out. But it seems impossible to get any work done without a footbed these days.

There is no way to evaluate this without seeing the OP ski and looking at his set up and individual anatomy/physical attributes and limitations.

 

[Jamt]

markojp: Doesn't someone who understands boots need to see me ski first? If not, if you can pm me with a recommendation for one or more boot fitters in the Tahoe area I would appreciate it. And must the particular skis I have compliment or be consistent with the boot characteristics?

I promise that I will look into boots this Spring/Summer but I have seen my colleagues go willy nilly from one boot fad (i.e., Fischer vacuum) to another with no rhyme or reason to me. Not saying that I ski better than them. I don't. But they spend allot of money on boots.

And funny that you mention it, one of the smooth effortless, old school skiers I skied with at Mammoth last weekend questioned if my boots (as a Race boot) had too much forward lean for the type of skiing I am trying to achieve...

You really need to start with the boots.

Go see @bud heishman in that area. http://www.snowind.com/index.html

 

[Josh Matta]

markojp: Doesn't someone who understands boots need to see me ski first? If not, if you can pm me with a recommendation for one or more boot fitters in the Tahoe area I would appreciate it. And must the particular skis I have compliment or be consistent with the boot characteristics?

I promise that I will look into boots this Spring/Summer but I have seen my colleagues go willy nilly from one boot fad (i.e., Fischer vacuum) to another with no rhyme or reason to me. Not saying that I ski better than them. I don't. But they spend allot of money on boots.

And funny that you mention it, one of the smooth effortless, old school skiers I skied with at Mammoth last weekend questioned if my boots (as a Race boot) had too much forward lean for the type of skiing I am trying to achieve...

Boot forward lean,stiffness and lateral alignment have nothing to do with the type of skiing you are trying to achieve and everything to do with how your body is built, specifically but not limited to Q angle, and tib/fib to femur length, and dorsiflexion. Stiffness is the something that almost everyone gets wrong, assuming you are aligned properly in a fore and aft plane the boots could be concrete blocks and it would nt matter, in fact its preferable.

The idea that skis and boots much match is kinda of hogwash. A strong enough boot can drive all skis, where a softer boot will be limited to softer skis. I own 3 pairs of AT/alpine boot and my Mach 1s struggle to drive some of my bigger skis/stiffer skis, like my Bonafides, Monster 83s, but my Kr2 never feel like to much boot for a softer ski like a Bushwacker, Soul rider or TST.

 

[markojp]

Josh, your discription is sort of chicken and the egg, and yes, choosing the right boot is all about one's anatomy, but saying it's hogwash appears to sound like alignment and setup doesn't matter at all. IMO, it's a variable that Tim should have a look at as it might be making his life more difficult than it needs to be. Could be limited dorsiflexion for all we know, and in my humble experience, boots and alignment certainly can matter in some, but not all, cases.

I do think skis aren't nearly as big a deal as they're made out to be, and sadly, the whole movement in the tech skiing world to SL skis isn't all together a positive influence in the recreational ski instruction world even if they're fun and can help refine some things. But the latter is 'just like my opinion, man.'

 

[HeluvaSkier]

the whole movement in the tech skiing world to SL skis isn't all together a positive influence in the recreational ski instruction world even if they're fun and can help refine some things.

I go back and forth on that topic all the time (happy to hear I'm not the only one)... When I coach technique, I don't coach on anything BUT a slalom ski (okay, sometimes I use a 175cm WC RC since I can bend these into tighter arcs than most can ski with their SL skis)... I require the athletes be on their SL skis though. The advantage of those skis is a gift and a curse though. My motto has always been, hone the skill on SL skis and test it to see if you 'got it' on GS skis. My favorite groomer ski to free ski on though is a 185cm WC RC with a WC race plate (vs. system binding).

 

[markojp]

I agree, particularly with the focus of your program. I love SL skis for refining movements, but...

 

[Josh Matta]

Alignment does matter what doesn’t matter is having too much boot for a ski. A boot can not overpower a ski but a ski can overpower a boot.

 

[skier]

It's hard to know for sure, but I'm taking it at face value that Tim can carve well. This is kind of a very specific situation where you have an instructor that can carve, but isn't able to smear the turn the way he likes. If he can carve well, his boot setup probably isn't too far off. What about his boot setup could cause him to carve well, but not smear well? Typically, not enough forward lean makes it harder to smear. He could be over canted, but probably not under canted. If he's serious about skiing, sure, drop a grand, spend a day getting the latest tech with expert boot fitting, but in the end he might find it's even harder to make that turn, because all that new tech is geared for carving.

 

[markojp]

Skier, I don't quite understand your assumptions about anything other than the OP has told us. If one were to reach a bit, I'd say the opposite is more likely with the possible exception of park and ride carving on mellow groomed terrain. FWIW, all psia tasks are easily done on modern carving skis. It's why you see them so frequently in L2 and 3 exams. He also may not need to 'drop a grand' on anything. Just curious, but what is your background?

 

[Doby Man]

[QUOTE Doby Man: Adding the concept of "flow" to the mix is very helpful. I would have missed it. Because I am not sure that I have actually ever felt it skiing.[/QUOTE]

 

[skier]

Skier, I don't quite understand your assumptions about anything other than the OP has told us. If one were to reach a bit, I'd say the opposite is more likely with the possible exception of park and ride carving on mellow groomed terrain. FWIW, all psia tasks are easily done on modern carving skis. It's why you see them so frequently in L2 and 3 exams. He also may not need to 'drop a grand' on anything. Just curious, but what is your background?

I don't know... really. Just from reading his posts, he's a level 2 PSIA instructor who's been working on and teaching mostly edge lock to edge lock carving for the last 15 years. He also seems really humble which may give people a different impression in contrast to some of the egos that tend to float around. Like I said, I don't know, I'm not a PSIA instructor, maybe L2 PSIA instructors really do suck in their area of singular focus...I just thought differently.

 

[HeluvaSkier]

A boot can not overpower a ski but a ski can overpower a boot.

While it is the skier that can overpower a ski, it is the boot that enables a ski to be overpowered in the first place. So, a boot can overpower a ski. I'd even suggest that in some circles they ski on very stiff boots with comparably soft skis because of the ease at which the skiers can bend the soft skis with the stiff boot. When a skier who knows how to bend a stiff ski gets onto a setup like that, they can easily stall the ski in the arc... quite common in some demo skiing. That said, I'd rather have tat setup than a ski that overpowers a boot... that's awful.

 

[markojp]

I don't know... really. Just from reading his posts, he's a level 2 PSIA instructor who's been working on and teaching mostly edge lock to edge lock carving for the last 15 years. He also seems really humble which may give people a different impression in contrast to some of the egos that tend to float around. Like I said, I don't know, I'm not a PSIA instructor, maybe L2 PSIA instructors really do suck in their area of singular focus...I just thought differently.

They don't necessarily suck at all, but if someone is having trouble improving their skills, particularly as Tim describes, there's work to be done on some fundamental movements. Edge locked carving can be good a la Helluva, Zentune, Josh, etc..., but I'm guessing we'll see the same issues through the range of Tim's turn types, particularly when mentioning no sensation of flow. Not tossing Tim under the bus at all. He wants to make changes, and that's why he's here. Good on him I say!

 

[karlo]

More like this but at higher speed and much less obvious flexion extension:

That would be Dan Egan, at much higher speed.