Choice Rubber?

[Tony S]

I need new rubber on my 29er trail bike.

Context: I ride in New England. Been through a lot of Ardents over the years and like them okay, although the outer knobs wear very fast. Right now I have a Maxxis Forekaster on the rear, which has also been fine, but even more than the Ardents the sidewalls are like Swiss cheese when it comes to holding sealant; they're always weeping. I have a Nobby Nic on the front, with one of their higher end constructions / compounds (the stickier one - can't remember what it's called). It's obviously a very well made tire, with excellent sidewalls and reasonably long wearing tread, but I've just never really warmed up to it. I think I prefer tread patterns with fewer intermediate knobs.

Thinking of switching it up to Bontrager XR4s or maybe something from Specialized. Never had a Bonty and it's been a LONG time since I ran a Specialized tire. Contis have been very mixed for me, both in terms of quality and durability.

Thoughts?

 

[Tony S]

What about Vittoria?

 

[Josh Matta]

first IMO the Ardent are awful, the Ikon and Rekon despite having lower knobs IMO corner better because their side knobs dont alternate and are not flimsy and also both can be had in 3c which is by far the stickiest rubber I have found(and the other Trek and Specialized tires that run it)

Also what rims do you run? certain tires do not play nice with certain rims....IE Vitorria is great on WTB but awful on Stans.

If your mostly on packed dirt between your roots and rocks, this is most likely your surface.


Ulimate Grip

Front - Maxxis DHF exo 3c 2.35 or 2.5 WT depending on your inner rim width, this by far the best front tires out there for hardpack after year off trying everything. DHR2 is slightly better on wet roots, but rolls noticeable slower. The only cavet of the DHF like most great corner tires is there a dead zone between cornering grip and drift but once its on sideknobs nothing grips better If you want less inter knobs this is your tire.

alternatives to DHF

DHR 2 - slower, better braking, worse on loam, better on mud, better on wet roots and rocks, less vague on bike lean over

Butcher - pretty good, slightly faster than DHF, slightly better on loam, does nt seem as sticky as Maxxis 3c on wet rocks and rocks, better on loam, honestly a great front tire.

Aggressor - fastest tire and sane person should run as a front tire. Worse at cornering than all of the above but not as vague as the above(still light years better than an ardent), in 3c decent at wet rocks/roots but not as good as the Minions.




Rear - Specialized Slaughter 2.35, I like these better than the maxxis Minion SS. Unless you are really charging steeps or have a ton of loam the semi slick Slaughter corners as well the Minion DHF but rolls nice as fast on the rear. The compound seems like its stickier than Maxxis Minion SS on wet stuff. You can not get the Minion SS in 3c....

alternatives to Slaughter

Minion SS - almost looks like an exact clone and on hardpack dirt impossble to tell them apart since both are made by Maxxis. The Minion SS imo those is worse on wet hard stuff, and not as good as loam since the inter knobs go right up to the edge and the Slaughter has a nice little gap. basically is good tire but the specialized is better.

Aggressor - better rear tire than front tire IMO. Still not vague but not sharp on edge. Better on wet roots/rocks than the slaughter but rolls much SLOWER.

Rekon - honestly this tire is pretty great. Very fast rolling, with 3c really good grip on wet hard stuff, not vague but corners well. I actually cut out all the inter knobs with side cutter because I ride 90 percent LOAM and it does nt seem to have affect its hard pack performance to much.



IF you get maxxis make sure its at least EXO and 3c. also some questions..

1. What rims do you have?

2. is your surface packed dirt or more loose and loamy?

 

[Erik Timmerman]

I'm kind of a tire nut. I've done a serious culling of the tire quiver, but it's still embarrassingly large, so I'll tell you what I think.

I have found myself to really like the French tires. Michelin, Mavic and Hutchinson are the majority of my quiver these days. There is something about the casing feel on those tires. My burly/enduro set right now is the Michelin Wild Enduro front and rear. They make front and rear specific tires. Grip is really strong, wear is good, but definitely not the fastest rolling set. My all mountain set right now is a Michelin Wild AM and a Specialized Slaughter Grid on the rear. The Wild AM is basically a lighter less blocky version of the Enduro front, and the Slaughter is a semi-slick with strong side knobs. I've always liked semi-slicks and the Slaughter is really done right. The casing (even the Grid) is a little soft, so I'm running it at higher pressure than I need in the Michelins.

I have a bunch of Mavic tires in the rotation right now too. I was going to tell you all about them, but I just looked at the Mavic site and they aren't showing any tires. I hope that doesn't mean they are leaving the tire business, because they do have great rubber developed with Nico Vouilloz and Fabien Barel. When the weather starts to turn I will mount up a pair.

I tried the Schwalbes last year, a Hans Dampf/Magic Mary combo in the softer rubber and Super Gravity casing. I had a frustrating race day on them with crashes all over the place, seemingly out of nowhere, and I doubt I'll run those again any time soon.

I think 90% of what is out there is Maxxis, and obviously it;s good, but there are other brands for sure, and I think the Ardent can really be improved on a lot!

 

[Josh Matta]

yeah the thing is you use UST bead which means you an run Michelin/hutchison/mavic. Maxxis and the tires they make tend to work better with Stans....

Again @Tony S will chime in with his rims.

 

[Superbman]

I agree with most of what Josh says, but I'll add a few things:

I think your problem has been that you've been using under-gunned tires for New England trails (ardents orc XR4)-as you see most suggestions are correctly suggesting stouter and more capable tires.

Best gripping front (or rear) tire on any surface right now is the Maxxis Assegai. Grips way more securely than DHF or DHR regardless of compound. And now they are making it in all the different casings.

I think the DHF out grip the DHR2 on wet roots and rock provided the trail isn't also muddy-they don't shed mud well and the DHR2 makes a better mud tire. The DHR2 is a pretty drifty tire, and I enjoy it as a rear tire on the DH bike-but less so on a trail bike. I just went with a (29er version) DHF 2.5 Maxxgrip in the front and a 2.5 High Roller in the rear combo and its making for a pretty versatile trail tire set up.

If you want to save a little money-0I'm a fan of the Bontrager SE tires-I I like the SE5 up front and an SE4 in the rear/ though the XR4 as rear tire is good, too.

I'm not a fan of any Vittoria (or old Geax) tires. Haven't tried the new breed of Michelins (I haven't run a Michelin since they stopped making the bright red Hot S!), but a lot of folks seem to love them.

At any rate, best advice is to seek out slightly more substantial tires than you're using now. Have fun! Tire are the best and easiest upgrade you can make on a bike: When all is going according to plan, they are the only part of the bike that actually touches the trail

 

[Josh Matta]

I left the Assegai out because of his dislike of interknobs....I also have yet to personally try it.....

My typical combo on my local loam is Shorty Front, Hr2 rear, or 2 shortys when its messy. But that combo is silly at most places that are not 100 percent loam. it squirms quite a bit on hard pack and its good but not great on wet roots and rocks.

 

[EricG]

I might one of the few that like the WTB Ranger & Trailboss offerings. I find the casings supple and fairly durable. I do not use a UST rim. I like their rubber compound on rocks & roots. Neither of these options are super aggressive, but more middle of the road all purpose tires.

 

[AmyPJ]

Well, FWIW some feedback on the Bontrager XR series is that @utskier just finally wore his set out after two riding seasons in rocks, rocks, and more rocks (XR4.) And he likes to jump, although not big gnarly jumps, but he does ride his bike with some aggressiveness and he's not a light weight. I obviously can't provide much feedback on a good tread for the conditions you ride, however.

 

[Josh Matta]

IF they took that long to wear out, they will not stick to Humidity laden roots and rocks....we like our tires like erasers around here.

 

[Tony S]

Hey everyone. Thanks for the great info.

Again @Tony S will chime in with his rims.

I'm running Enve 60/40 HV rims from probably four or five years ago. At the time they were avant garde wide. Now they're probably considered narrow. I don't have the exact dims at hand.

Dirt in my area is all over the map. Lot of roots and rocks (especially roots). Generally thin topsoil and poor drainage. Loam? What's loam? You get it at the bank, right? I'm exaggerating, but you get the point.

I do have a mild weight weenie streak, so I'm not going to run stupid heavy downhill tires.

@Superbman, I've been around the block probably more times than you guess, but I take your point.

The compound stuff is so confusing. Josh, thanks for the tip on 3C rubber, but what's the difference between "3C Maxxgrip" and "3C Terra"?

Anyway, I think I'm going to go with Erik's suggestion on Michelin, just to change it up, since I haven't had a French MTB tire on my bike in about fifteen years, so it must be time. (The part about semi.slicks scares me, though, after a near fatal experiment, many years ago, with Hutchinson Pythons ... shudder.)

 

[Tony S]

Also want to hear from @Tom K.

 

[Ken_R]

I use the Maxxis DHR2 2.4WT's front and rear (EXO 3C) and they are just awesome in all kinds of terrain. That said, they are a bit slow rolling on the climbs but not too bad for such an aggressive and grippy tire really. I have used them on everything from XC type trails to full on downhill park riding. They are pretty darn tough.

I have used the Rekon (in a 27.5 plus size, 2.6 IIRC) and it was a really good tire. Faster rolling but a bit less aggressive and not as grippy on looser terrain.

I have seen a lot of bikes with the DHF (front) and Aggressor (rear) combo as well.

 

[Primoz]

I think 90% of what is out there is Maxxis, and obviously it;s good, but there are other brands for sure

Completely OT, especially as this will be more from xc perspective then enduro/dh. I'm really wondering what's the thing with Maxxis (again, it's going to be XC related, where priorities are different). Everyone and their dog runs Maxxis. For sponsored riders I understand, they ride what they get and where they (actually their team) get most of money. But for recreational riders I really don't get it. Every single test I have seen tells Maxxis tires rolls way slower then Schwalbe or Continental for example. On top of that, they are almost 100g/tire heavier then Schwalbe or Conti, which is A LOT with 500-600g tires. And most of people complain they are at least as fragile as Schwalbe (Conti's Protection is in different league here), and don't have any better, but most of time worse grip then Schwalbe/Conti. Yet, everyone still run them. Why? Only because top few riders who are paid to run them do so? If yes, then I'm sure Maxxis ROI into top level racing is worth every cent. If not, what's the point then? What I am missing?

 

[Lauren]

FWIW, I’ve been running the Maxxis Minion DHF on the front, Rekon on the rear, and I’d agree with absolutely everything that was said before me about them.

Caveat...I’ve been running a plus 27.5 tire, at 2.8, not a 29er...so YMMV.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Completely OT, especially as this will be more from xc perspective then enduro/dh. I'm really wondering what's the thing with Maxxis (again, it's going to be XC related, where priorities are different). Everyone and their dog runs Maxxis. For sponsored riders I understand, they ride what they get and where they (actually their team) get most of money. But for recreational riders I really don't get it. Every single test I have seen tells Maxxis tires rolls way slower then Schwalbe or Continental for example. On top of that, they are almost 100g/tire heavier then Schwalbe or Conti, which is A LOT with 500-600g tires. And most of people complain they are at least as fragile as Schwalbe (Conti's Protection is in different league here), and don't have any better, but most of time worse grip then Schwalbe/Conti. Yet, everyone still run them. Why? Only because top few riders who are paid to run them do so? If yes, then I'm sure Maxxis ROI into top level racing is worth every cent. If not, what's the point then? What I am missing?

I think that it is partly the pro sponsorships that drive this, but I think it's also their distribution. In the US, Maxxis is at pretty much every distributor, so every shop can get them. Brands like Specialized and Bontrager are only available to Specialized and Trek dealers respectively. I think it's also that Maxxis has a really steady hand and doesn't change up their line all the time. They might add a tire like the Assegai, but they have been selling Minions for 25 years and everyone knows them and what they do. Michelin on the other hand is changing up their line every couple of years which makes it a lot harder to know which tire you want. Same to some degree with most of the other brands. So from a sales standpoint, which tire does Tony want? It's really easy to get advice about Maxis because at some point everybody has tried one, and when he walks into a shop, they will be there. You can't really say that about any other brand.

 

[EricG]

@Primoz - I’ve noticed the past decade people are pushing the limits further & further. With that comes the desire/need for more aggressive tires. Maxxis has embraced that and developed a broad line of tires to fit those needs. This trickles down to the rest of the consumers in the market. You will find Maxxis tires everywhere in the US, so if you damage a tire it’s easy to buy a new one.

I also think we as riders change. I was an expert XC & 24hr solo racer forced into retirement by a severe lung infection (don’t recommend it). I went from having sets of wheels with tires for different conditions to trying to find a tire that’s a compromise and does ok at a lot of things. I’m not a fan of large blocky tires, but again that could change as conditions warrant.

Maxxis, Michelin, Schwalbe , e13, specialized, WTB all have quality offerings, but IMHO marketing and promotions drive tire availability. Around me you find primarily Maxxis.

 

[Tony S]

@Primoz , there is a close parallel here with with skiing, Europe vs. North America. XC riding as a category and XC racing in particular are on the outer fringe of the radar screen for most of the riders I know now. Fifteen years ago it was a different story. Everyone wants big tires with a lot of grip; no one seems to care too much about weight or speed.

I'm in what i think of as the center, but in fact from a 2020 U.S. perspective is actually way toward the old school / XC end of things. Still running 2.2 - 2.4" tires, for example.

Edit: ironically the actual riding that I see most people doing now is nearly the same in terms of terrain and skill level that I was seeing fifteen years ago. Again the parallels ...

 

[Josh Matta]

The compound stuff is so confusing. Josh, thanks for the tip on 3C rubber, but what's the difference between "3C Maxxgrip" and "3C Terra"?

They are just the level of softness on the tire.

Super tacky - not 3c but basically its the soft shoulder knob compound used on the whole tread. These are the stickiest tires and can literally make you glue to near vertical rock faces.
Maxxgrip - grippiest usually on DH tires
Maxxterra - middle of the line usually on aggressive trail tires
Maxxspeed - least grippy of the 3c stuff, usually on XC race tires.

With that said a Maxxspeed tire will still feel better on wet roots and rocks than even Dual compound tire aggressive DH tire. Both your forecasters and Ardents are dual compound unless you have the really wide Forecasters that are 3c Maxx Terra......

 

[Josh Matta]

@Primoz , there is a close parallel here with with skiing, Europe vs. North America. XC riding as a category and XC racing in particular are on the outer fringe of the radar screen for most of the riders I know now. Fifteen years ago it was a different story. Everyone wants big tires with a lot of grip; no once one seems to care too much about weight or speed.

I'm in what i think of as the center, but in fact from a 2020 U.S. perspective is actually way toward the old school / XC end of things. Still running 2.2 - 2.4" tires, for example.

I for think that is part of it of it for sure. I also have never seen what type of terrain Primoz rides.

I actually used to run Racing Ralphs when I was XC racing they rolled fast but that that was about all. They would ping of wet and rocks so easily and also were fairly easy to shred. I also think it comes down that many US riders literally only pedal up hill to back downhil or are on fairly flat be fairly technical single track.

Another thing to mention that with some exception the literally tire design of the tread of MANY companies just looks pointless and is pointless, it like they gave a 12 years a pen and said draw a pretty design with out any consideration to what knobs actually do. Schwalbe used to be awful at this and to some extent still are. I will say their casing are very supple and light and there for roll really fast but that is meaningless to me for what I like to do these days. The new eddy current look and probably ride more like maxxis tire.

and as other have said I have been running the same DHF tires on various bikes for 10+ year now, it hasnt changed I know what it going to do.