Chamonix and Grand Montets

[karlo]

Wasn’t sure where to post this, here or Backcountry. Anyone interested in Chamonix and, in particular, Grand Montets? Cable car to tip not operational, so...
no riders at the top who won’t skin and climb up. I’m thinking Lognan Refuge. Early morning starts up. Or early morning empty slopes to Herse chair or Brochard for a lift. There’s the standard offpiste. But, Point of View will now be an ungroomed piste, basically offpiste, as would be Pylones on Lognan Glacier. I’m thinking April. I just don’t know anyone who wants to or can do it.

Lognan Refuge seen here using FatMap, as well as Point of View piste.



Front side Pylones and lifts seen here

 

[Crank]

I have taken that car and skied ungroomed from there, but not onto the glacier. Would be fun but we are committed to Val d'Isere in early March. Would love to get back to Chamonix in the next few years.

 

[Eleeski]

Which tram burned up? Grand Montets out of Argentiere or Aguille du Midi out of downtown? When will it be fixed?

With the tram, Grand Montets is straightforward and the glacier is pretty cool (we hired a local resort guide who was very entertaining. "Super!"). It was a powder day but not the kind of magic powder that is worth hiking to. I'm sure it could be better in a different storm. The other terrain under the tram was really fun and not busy for the several laps when we were there.

I'm lazy so I will wait until the tram is running but it might be really good to hike to get all that terrain for yourself.

The trees on the way down were quite fun and we had them and the fresh powder to ourselves! Hidden gems.

Aguille du Midi looked out of the skillset of our group.

Have fun on that trip!

Eric

 

[James]

^ The Grand Montets tram base station burned, cables stretched (broke?) and car fell off. It's down for the season I think.
https://skitheworld.com/2018/09/fire-destroys-chamonixs-grands-montets-cable-car/

Btw, if you did that on Grands Montets your group could handle the easier way on Vallee Blanche. It's the ridge hike that could freak people out. Then at the end there's a fairly strenuous 20-45 min hike out of the glacial valley. . Depends on the person. Some take nearly an hour.

@karlo When are you planing this? I may be there early March.
I was interested in the refuge that's to the left of the top of Grnd Montets in the diagram and back in the valley. Again, left side of valley. I forget the name but it's a pretty big refuge. But... damn now that's a big hike.

 

[Crank]

There is a hut on top of the Argentiere Glacier. Some use it as first stop on the Haute Route. I believe the route goes from the top of the lift at Grand Montets down into and across the glacier and then up the other side.

Valle Blanche can be done with upper intermediates so long an they are not the types that freak out over exposure. We did it with some on a icy day.

 

[karlo]

When are you planing this? I may be there early March.
I was interested in the refuge that's to the left of the top of Grnd Montets in the diagram and back in the valley

Do you mean the hut shown in the screenshot I posted? If so, that is mid mountain at 2030m. Top of Grand Montets is 3300m? One can get to the hut from the top of Herse lift, (2500m?).

https://m.yelp.com/biz/refuge-chalet-de-lognan-chamonix-mont-blanc

I’ve chatted with Tucker H on Yelp, who posted a great review of the food at Refuge Lognan. One of the questions I had was what it took to get up to the burnt out midstation from the hut. Here’s his reply.



I’d go in April if I do this, the only month I can. Snow is still a reasonable possibility, especially earlier. No doubt there will be hidden stashes protected by features. But, I’m good with any conditions. I’m also drawn by the thought of easier but lengthy skin up to the top on what otherwise would be pistes. Take it slow, enjoy the environs.

This morning, I received this from a guide service. Seems very doable for the generally fit skier with some, not a lot, of touring experience. That’s me.

 

[James]

No, the Argentierre refuge is at 2,760m looks like this:



It would be near where the "Glacier d'Argentierre" name is here. The Lognan hut is I believe where the knife and fork is lower down. About 700m lower.

 

[karlo]

Argentierre refuge is at 2,760m looks like this:

Wow, this is not a hut. It’s a hotel! 91 beds.

https://www.chamonet.com/accommodation/huts/argentiere-refuge-2771m-massif-du-mont-blanc

Looks like one would pass that Refuge on Day 2 of the itinerary I attached to my previous post (first thumbnail), on the way to Col du Passon from Lognan Refuge.

Lunch!

 

[James]

Wow, this is not a hut. It’s a hotel! 91 beds.

https://www.chamonet.com/accommodation/huts/argentiere-refuge-2771m-massif-du-mont-blanc

Looks like one would pass that Refuge on Day 2 of the itinerary I attached to my previous post (first thumbnail), on the way to Col du Passon from Lognan Refuge.

Lunch!

I don't know why one wouldn't stay up there. The view is incredible. But it looks like it only opens late Feb/early March. In winter I don't think it holds close to 91. I've talked to someone who's done the Haute Route in winter. One thing is water at the huts is €10/liter. There really isn't time nor fuel to melt snow afaik if your on a guided trip. So you have to add in that expense.


The Cosmiques Refuge on Aiguille du Midi is even bigger.

 

[karlo]

late Feb/early March.

Through May. That suits your purposes, I think. And mine.

really isn't time nor fuel to melt snow afaik if your on a guided trip.

I learned that snow melts pretty quickly when added to some water, then shaken, not stirred, James.

 

[James]

Through May. That suits your purposes, I think. And mine.



I learned that snow melts pretty quickly when added to some water, then shaken, not stirred, James.

Well it's funny. I talked to the people who'd done the winter Haute Route with a guide. One was telling me how it was always "go, go, go" and she was always the straggler getting yelled at. It made no sense to me.

Then I had a guide with a group of three in the Vallée Blanche. That's how he was. I had to take most photos while moving. Actually wished for a helmet cam with still function. Part of it was to get past certain areas by certain times due to sun, part was we were going to another area in Brévent afterwards.
Everything was go, go, go. Until we were in the steep couloir, then it was one turn and stop, repeat.

 

[karlo]

I talked to the people who'd done the winter Haute Route with a guide. One was telling me how it was always "go, go, go"

I can understand. The guide is trying to get a group from point A to point B. Yes, loss of sun and the snow can harden up quickly and then the group gets slower yet. And, things can go wrong along the way. So, the quicker one moves, the more leeway there is to accommodate the unexpected. Me, my objective is not a traverse, but rather day tours out of a hut or base of some sort. Things turn south, retreat back to the hut. Things are good, go nice and slow and enjoy the views, environment, soak it in, take photos, get a few good runs in.

 

[Crank]

When we were looking into doing the Haute Route Most guides did not stop at the Argentiere hut. The company we liked did. It made for a shorter first day with about 1,700 or so vertical rise. Most days are 3,000 - 4,000 of climbing.

Our Vallee Blanche guide was very mellow. We had a large group of 9. We did have 1 person freak out a bit in an icy, exposed, steepish section where a fall could have had consequences. He was very patient talking her through it.

 

[James]

When we were looking into doing the Haute Route Most guides did not stop at the Argentiere hut. The company we liked did. It made for a shorter first day with about 1,700 or so vertical rise. Most days are 3,000 - 4,000 of climbing.

Our Vallee Blanche guide was very mellow. We had a large group of 9. We did have 1 person freak out a bit in an icy, exposed, steepish section where a fall could have had consequences. He was very patient talking her through it.

Did you start from the top of Grands Montets?

 

[karlo]

Did you start from the top of Grands Montets?

Sounds like they started in the village, with the refuge being at about 2700 and their having ascended 1700 to get there. That right, @Crank?

 

[Crank]

Did you start from the top of Grands Montets?

Sounds like they started in the village, with the refuge being at about 2700 and their having ascended 1700 to get there. That right, @Crank?

We were planning to do the haute route.... but...we never did. SIgh. First, the guides scared Robin, though I know she could handle it and is a much stronger and faster hiker than I and never freaks out about exposure or steeps and can ski any kind of conditions we have ever encountered, So then they recommended we do a different week long tour, the Ortler Traverse in the Tyrolean Alps. Mellower terrain, much nicer huts... And we decided to do that. Then I spent a week skiing with some friends out in Jackson Hole and after 4 straight days of hiking, skinning and skiing my knees were killing me. Add to that the cost of all the gear we needed to buy for the tour (couple grand between us). Well, we pretty much did a 180 and chartered a sailboat in the BVI's for a week instead Much more relaxing and less than half the cost!

So the route for the tour actually does take the car to the top of Grand Montets, You then ski down onto the Argentiere Glacier and then climb out the other side. The guides we planned to go with give you some training along the way. A lot of guiding companies do a day skiing and touring from the Agui du Midi for training and skills assessment the day before embarking on the Haute Route.

About 4 seasons ago we did the Agui du Midi and skied Vallee Blanche twice in one day. après ski never felt so good! In fact we hit a couple of bars, ended up having dinner in our ski boots and walking back to the apartment we had rented around 10PM carrying our skis through town. Loved Chamonix!

 

[Choucas]

The plus of this plan is that you are able to access what is essentially in bounds terrain on the Grand Montets starting from a reasonable altitude. If you want to go beyond that, like get to the Amethyst Glacier (which is a very nice day tour) beyond the Argentiere hut, you have a longer hike to get there and have a bit of a hike to get back off of the glacier and onto the traverse to the Lognan hut. If you encounter bad weather, you are kind of stuck. Going up could be a bad choice. You can ski down, but then you'd have to make the climb back to the hut.
If you don't have experience in glacier travel, you'll want to stay mostly within the Grand Montets ski area. To get the most out of it, I'd suggest that you follow up with the Chamonix Guides and do day tours with them either out of a hut or from town. They will get you to the best snow, the safest routes, and get you back happy. There's so much great touring terrain and downhill routes available around Mont Blanc in France, Italy and Switzerland. It would be a shame to make the trip and miss out on the best skiing. Often it is perfect snow and weather on the Italian side and hideous on the French, or vice versa. Unless you are very local, you won't know the right answer. I've been touring in the alps almost annually since the early 80's and I still use a guide. Dollars are irrelevant when it comes to fun and safety.

 

[James]

About 4 seasons ago we did the Agui du Midi and skied Vallee Blanche twice in one day.

Nice! Impressive. The long traverse out if bad would have me not wanting a 2nd helping. Last year it was like PA/NJ snow. Someone got hurt in front of ice right before the train tracks as the snow deteriorated into rocks quickly. Conditions were such that the next day instead of skiing for half a day, I went snowshoeing. Through the guide office.
Well...I'd do it again if the guide/group was half decent. There's simply nothing like it.


This is the view from the little refuge up there. You can buy small food and drink. That's a helipad, but I don't know if the heli can actually stop on it or they drop off.

This was the path out from the refuge. In that spot at that time, there was no snow. So we walk with skis on on rocks. Way too scary to take a photo while moving or even on it. I'm waiting to go. It's not "fall and die", but if you started tumbling to the right...bye. That would probably be unlikely, but psychologically it's right there. Same with beyond the ridge. We go left.


A view from the hike out of the glacier.
Anyone know what would happen if you continue down the glacier? Is there another way out?


You get to this hut when finished with the climb. It's downhill from here on a traversing trail. One likely has to take skis off to cross the train tracks.
The pastries were delicious.


End of that hike looking from the snack hut. It's not steep at all at the end.

Often it is perfect snow and weather on the Italian side and hideous on the French, or vice versa.

I experienced that. It was getting really warm and snow not great in Chamonix. I signed up at the guide office to go to Italy the next day. Amazing! Six inches of fresh.

Courmayeur with guide.

 

[karlo]

If you want to go beyond that, like get to the Amethyst Glacier (which is a very nice day tour) beyond the Argentiere hut, you have a longer hike to get there and have a bit of a hike to get back off of the glacier and onto the traverse to the Lognan hut. If you encounter bad weather, you are kind of stuck. Going up could be a bad choice. You can ski down, but then you'd have to make the climb back to the hut.

Thanks. What are your thoughts about hiking up to the top of Grand Montets, either from the hut or, from a higher start elevation, from the top of Herse? I’m thinking maybe hike up what otherwise would be pistes, Pointe du Vue and Pylones, with a guide of course

 

[Choucas]

Although they are normally part of the ski area, those slopes will not be controlled this year. It will be the same as hiking up any slope outside of a ski area.

The quote below is from a facebook post by the Eagle Ski Club
"This winter the top Grand Montets station will not be accessible by cable car. For this reason, the “Point du Vue” and “Pylone” (upper) pistes will not be open.
This area will not be part of the secured ski area and so will not be marked, checked for hazards or have safety patrols.
People wishing go into the Argentiere sector, (by the Col des Rachasses or the Point de Vue,) or on to the N face of the Aiguille des Grands Montets need to carry the right safety gear, have the experience for the high mountain (i.e. for glacier travel, avalanche risk etc.) and also check the condition before departing.
Despite rumours to the contrary, there will not be a secured ski touring track put in place."