Chairlift Etiquette

[luliski]

This past weekend, riding the chairlift with just one other person at Squaw, I asked if he was ready for the bar down. I thought he said "yes," so I started to lower it. I got an annoyed-sounding, "wait," so I looked over at him. He had a harness on and was clipping onto the chair. He had to lean forward to do this, and needed a little more time. It turns out he has a seizure disorder and was advised to clip in for safety on lifts. He also said that two people have had seizures on lifts at Squaw this year, and have fallen off. One broke his neck. I don't know if just having the bar down would keep a seizing person from falling off the lift, but it would probably help the other people on the lift from getting knocked off, and it might help others keep someone from falling off. I learned that if someone is wearing a harness, give them time to clip in.

 

[Guy in Shorts]

^^^^ This thought never crossed my mind but one of our crew that we skied over 100 days with last season is battling a stage IV glioblastoma. She has had several seizures last year. She is riding the lifts with us on days that she feels good enough. Will need to pay attention on every lift ride from now on just to make sure that this doesn't become a problem. Thanks for the informative post Luliski.

 

[MBF67]

Why wouldn't you lower the bar??? Anxious to try skiing mid-run (with a 20 foot drop to start things off)??

I don't always call out before lowering it, but I am careful to lower it slowly in case I catch someone by surprise. But as said previously, here in Canada and the NE, everyone expects it to be lowered shortly after loading.

 

[Ogg]

Usually someone else is already lowering the bar and I just watch out but if not I do any of many of the things already stated depending upon the situation.
I'm honestly a bit scared of heights which is ironic since I love skiing and work in an industry where I have to work at heights fairly often. I always prefer the bar down and still remember being on a barless lift for the first time at Heavenly after about 5 days total skiing experience. It was over well skied terrain far steeper than anything I had ever seen(it would probably look like nothing now) and the wind picked up enough to stop the chair and set it rocking. I have rarely been on a barless chair since and have never been comfortable on one.

 

[Goose]

I think that safety bars are useless for the following reasons: People don’t just simply fall out of the chair. I estimate that I have ridden a chair lift at least 20,000 times and not once have I come close to falling out as I am sure the case is the same with many others on this site. If you think about what physical movements it actually takes for a person to fall out of a chairlift, short of a surprise 60 mph wind out of nowhere while sitting on a seat caked with solid ice, you realize that somebody has to be doing some pretty stupid shit to make that happen. You can’t fall out the back or side. The chair is tilted backwards to a significant degree. What the heck is it that they are doing? Over passionately waving to a friend? Cleaning a ski tip or polishing a buckle? Stretching their lumbar region? Seeing what you can hit with your spit? Trying to switch skis or adjust boot cant? High on PCP or meth? Both? … and, of course, exactly what anyone would want to be doing on the edge of a cliff. I mean … one really has got to go out of their way to get forward enough to the edge of the seat in order to fall off. In the real world, that is what is referred to as “natural selection”. Now, the resorts know that one out of every, let’s say every 25 customers is going to be a complete insufferable moron and that the bars they put in are for those people. However, it is not for their safety but instead to cover liability because, a moron can figure out how to get past the lift bar whether it is up or down. Morons can be very intelligent about nullifying any safety precaution you might throw at them. Give a moron a stick of dynamite and they can figure out how to get it lit … just not what to do with it once it is lit. They can’t think that far ahead. They know how to open a can a beer and they know how to get a car started and then that is about it. So, if we think about this even further, the safety bar isn’t really keeping us safe and that it is not really falling out of the chair that we have to worry about at all. No. Instead we need to be concerned as to whether we are indeed, a moron. If you are not a moron, you will not fall out of the chair, bar or no bar. If you are a moron, up or down, the safety bar will not save you. Therefore, in conclusion, safety bars are useless. It also may suggest, if you will, that an impulsive eagerness to get the bar down may be the result of some type of subconscious self evaluation. Just sayin …

In re-thinking about this post .....I will say I agree with a lot of things said. Honestly some the things said simply make sense even if sarcastically so. Some is even humorous the way you put it and your not wrong. Unfortunately some of those same funny things are not in reality anything too funny.

But I wouldn't agree with any self evaluation thing. I also wouldn't at all agree that the bar is useless.
Plain and simple........ if for whatever the reason/s regardless of any stupidity or not, someone should be at risk of falling or even yourself due to another's stupidity the bar is something to help grab on to simply because its there. It also lessens the free space (or empty space) in front of us where there would otherwise be nothing at all. There is no way that equals useless. That generalization imo is an over statement. And as mentioned in another post there are also still enough older chairs still around with short seats and also with less pitch. A big person (tall or heavy or both) are not exactly "in" some of these older chairs quite as securely. Long legs and not much thigh on the seat while the weight of the legs and skis/boots pulling down and out upon the persons body. Heavy people with similar or other issues not being quite "into" the seat, etc. Bottom line is the bar can help for a number of reasons. I get the whole irresponsibility and/or stupidity things. But I also get that the bar does have its place for good reason and I believe it would help.

 

[crgildart]

Small data point at a small but busy NC resort Sunday. Took about 20 laps over 3 hours of skiing and made a mental note to defer the bar to others and capture the results. Not a SINGLE person announced or asked about the bar before dropping it. The only times it wasn't dropped immediately were two times and the liftee shouted at us to lower the bar before we had cleared the fence past the load ramp.

Also not a single head shot..

 

[James]

I think that safety bars are useless for the following reasons: People don’t just simply fall out of the chair. I estimate that I have ridden a chair lift at least 20,000 times and not once have I come close to falling out as I am sure the case is the same with many others on this site. If you think about what physical movements it actually takes for a person to fall out of a chairlift, short of a surprise 60 mph wind out of nowhere while sitting on a seat caked with solid ice, you realize that somebody has to be doing some pretty stupid shit to make that happen. You can’t fall out the back or side. The chair is tilted backwards to a significant degree. What the heck is it that they are doing? Over passionately waving to a friend? Cleaning a ski tip or polishing a buckle? Stretching their lumbar region? Seeing what you can hit with your spit? Trying to switch skis or adjust boot cant? High on PCP or meth? Both? … and, of course, exactly what anyone would want to be doing on the edge of a cliff. I mean … one really has got to go out of their way to get forward enough to the edge of the seat in order to fall off. In the real world, that is what is referred to as “natural selection”. Now, the resorts know that one out of every, let’s say every 25 customers is going to be a complete insufferable moron and that the bars they put in are for those people. However, it is not for their safety but instead to cover liability because, a moron can figure out how to get past the lift bar whether it is up or down. Morons can be very intelligent about nullifying any safety precaution you might throw at them. Give a moron a stick of dynamite and they can figure out how to get it lit … just not what to do with it once it is lit. They can’t think that far ahead. They know how to open a can a beer and they know how to get a car started and then that is about it. So, if we think about this even further, the safety bar isn’t really keeping us safe and that it is not really falling out of the chair that we have to worry about at all. No. Instead we need to be concerned as to whether we are indeed, a moron. If you are not a moron, you will not fall out of the chair, bar or no bar. If you are a moron, up or down, the safety bar will not save you. Therefore, in conclusion, safety bars are useless. It also may suggest, if you will, that an impulsive eagerness to get the bar down may be the result of some type of subconscious self evaluation. Just sayin …

Probably not a professor dealing with logical constructs in debates.

The easiest way to fall off is to get a ski caught on the tower. On some lifts this is surprisingly easy. This happened at Hunter several years ago. Dead. The mother who died at Granby Ranch from a jerking, swininging chair didn't have the bar down afaik.
I do know one instance of a child being killed by the bar. In CT, kids were jumping off the chair early. One kid put the bar up and jumped, but the bar hit and came back down, catching the next kid sliding off under the helmet and chin. They were basically hanged.

 

[YoungishOldGuy]

The chairlift etiquette about lowering the bar is the same as for firing up a dube. You always ask first.
(legal in CO so don't arrest me)

 

[James]

The chairlift etiquette about lowering the bar is the same as for firing up a dube. You always ask first.
(legal in CO so don't arrest me)

 

[crgildart]

The chairlift etiquette about lowering the bar is the same as for firing up a dube. You always ask first.
(legal in CO so don't arrest me)

It's only legal in your own home or designated place of business though right? Pretty sure you can get fined for sparking one up on the chairlift or even in the woods totally out if sight if they want to be pricks about it. Can't say that I've ever seen or heard about anyone getting cited for either though.. even before it was legal.

 

[James]

It's only legal in your own home or designated place of business though right? Pretty sure you can get fined for sparking one up on the chairlift or even in the woods totally out if sight if they want to be pricks about it. Can't say that I've ever seen or heard about anyone getting cited for either though.. even before it was legal.

I belive you can't smoke tobacco on the chairlift in CO afaik.

 

[skibob]

I belive you can't smoke tobacco on the chairlift in CO afaik.

And make sure nobody on the lift is a DEA agent (ie, federal LE).

 

[martyg]

This just happened: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/News/video/mom-recalls-fear-watching-daughter-dangle-ski-lift-53603365

Big Bear is not releasing any data. Feared neurological damage as the girl was suspended when her hood caught on the chair. Bar was present, but not used. She was reportedly riding the lift with an instructor. Bad on the ski instructor. Bad on the ski school. Bad on Big Bear. I hope that there is more news coverage of this. Hope that attorneys are involved and it becomes more cost edffective for Big Bear to implement best practices.

Want to see more of CA ski area safety practices? Check this (https://www.snowsportsafety.org/) out.

Then there is this: http://www.ibtimes.com/watch-girl-falls-25-feet-ski-lift-during-rescue-attempt-slope-2660009. "A group of Indiana ski resort staffers on Feb. 18 sprang into action with a tarp to save a girl who was dangling from a ski lift." Bullshit. The ski area was operating with the least amount of consideration for the safety of its guests and staff since no chair lift bar was present. If staff had a set of balls they'd file an OSHA complaint.

 

[martyg]

It's only legal in your own home or designated place of business though right? Pretty sure you can get fined for sparking one up on the chairlift or even in the woods totally out if sight if they want to be pricks about it. Can't say that I've ever seen or heard about anyone getting cited for either though.. even before it was legal.

Most areas are on USDA FS land. Federal. It is a crime. Policing it is another matter. If it doesn't adversely affect me or my students I say go for it.

 

[Goose]

I was thinking about the raised bar thing the other day. Honestly it sort of came to me under a rather uncomfortable circumstance. It was at telluride Those who are familiar with chairs 8 and 9 coming fom the town side. Chair 9 (longer of the two) has a bar but not 8. Let me say for a first timer up that chair it aint no game. That chair is quite small and not so tilted and not much seat at all under the thighs especially for a taller person. It goes up steep and also rises quite high over some steepass terrain. Honestly I was not comfortable at all the first couple times. And not afraid to admit never really did get comfy with it. I felt with so much leg hinging out and down that if I just leaned forward a tad or fidged a bit too much on the chair I was a gonner. I would go up with one of my arms around the side post and the other (indside arm) behind the chair back. Chair 9 much longer and also similar as for height and steepness and terrain but had a bar and I think a much longer seat width. But that 8 chair is quite an experience if you've never done it. I was a bit nervous on that thing I must say and a safety bar would have been warranted imo. Judge me what you wish but skiing down that steeper side of the resort was far easier than riding up that nutsy chair. I didn't like it much at all. Im sure there are others similar in other places but that's the scariest chair Ive been on. A safety bar would have felt great on that one.

 

[scott43]

Love the Oak St lift..

 

[Tricia]

This past weekend, riding the chairlift with just one other person at Squaw, I asked if he was ready for the bar down. I thought he said "yes," so I started to lower it. I got an annoyed-sounding, "wait," so I looked over at him. He had a harness on and was clipping onto the chair. He had to lean forward to do this, and needed a little more time. It turns out he has a seizure disorder and was advised to clip in for safety on lifts. He also said that two people have had seizures on lifts at Squaw this year, and have fallen off. One broke his neck. I don't know if just having the bar down would keep a seizing person from falling off the lift, but it would probably help the other people on the lift from getting knocked off, and it might help others keep someone from falling off. I learned that if someone is wearing a harness, give them time to clip in.

This is the guy who fell of the chair and broke his neck,
https://www.youcaring.com/mikegreenlee-1024029
And more of the story on Realskiers.
https://www.realskiers.com/revelations/makes-specialty-shops-special/

 

[Muleski]

I have a history of one "freak", out of the blue, Gran Mal seizure. I'm on medication, and knock on wood six years later...zero issues.
I have to clip in. My doctors all asked me about my various sports activities, and this stuck with me as all four said the same thing to and my wife, and me. Another seizure is not going to kill you, but you could be killed having a seizure in the wrong situation. My wife looked at me and said you're clipping in.

So I wear and auto inflatable PFD on a boat, having literally grown up on the water. I wear a nylon rigger's belt with my ski pants, with a climbing daisy chain and a couple of carbiners for the lift. The daisy chain goes in my pocket when on the hill. No big deal. When I ride a bike, I ride with somebody else. No more motorcycles. Haven't been diving since, and don't miss it. A bit more aware of cliffs and such when hiking. Knock on wood, all's fine. Few hundred ski days since. No issues. And no clipping on gondi's, trams an surface lifts!

Having a seizure or a cardio event and falling from a chair is "not good." RIP, my friend Greg Needell.

 

[luliski]

I have a history of one "freak", out of the blue, Gran Mal seizure. I'm on medication, and knock on wood six years later...zero issues.
I have to clip in. My doctors all asked me about my various sports activities, and this stuck with me as all four said the same thing to and my wife, and me. Another seizure is not going to kill you, but you could be killed having a seizure in the wrong situation. My wife looked at me and said you're clipping in.

So I wear and auto inflatable PFD on a boat, having literally grown up on the water. I wear a nylon rigger's belt with my ski pants, with a climbing daisy chain and a couple of carbiners for the lift. The daisy chain goes in my pocket when on the hill. No big deal. When I ride a bike, I ride with somebody else. No more motorcycles. Haven't been diving since, and don't miss it. A bit more aware of cliffs and such when hiking. Knock on wood, all's fine. Few hundred ski days since. No issues. And no clipping on gondi's, trams an surface lifts!

Having a seizure or a cardio event and falling from a chair is "not good." RIP, my friend Greg Needell.

Sorry about your friend. I think what you're doing is smart. It's funny, I'm a nurse, but never considered what skiers with a history of seizures would do on a lift until meeting the guy at Squaw this year.