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Can't seem to get my edges sharp enough

Mike Faron

In the parking lot (formerly "At the base lodge")
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Dec 29, 2017
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Hey everyone,
I started tuning my own skis last year. I was tuning my kids skis and waxing my own skis last year. I have several pairs of skis, all mountain, GS, SL and I figured it would be cheaper to do it myself. I had a friend doing it for me before. Anyways, I've been getting them ready this week. I have a 3 year old pair of Volkl Kendos that I tuned yesterday. Since I haven't worked on them, I filed the base edge to 1 deg, then polished with 400 and 600 stones. Then I filed the side edge to 2 degrees and polished with the 400 and 600. I ran my finger across it and they don't seem that sharp. I've had several passes with the diamond stones and even tried to lightly re-file one of the edges. They still don't seem that sharp. I know it's hard for people to help since they can't see the skis but I feel like I'm missing something. How many passes with the file and stone do you guys do? I know that once I set the edges at 1,2 I shouldn't have to file anymore, just polish, unless the edges are damaged. I ran my finger nail across the edge (not along the edge but perpendicular to it) and it didn't take anything off. Is there a good "test" to know when edges are sharp enough. I examined them with a loupe and they don't look that bad.
Thanks
 

mdf

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When you filed, did you get visible shavings? Another possibility is work hardened edges or a dull file keeping it from biting.
 
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Mike Faron

In the parking lot (formerly "At the base lodge")
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I was getting visible shavings, i have a new medium file. the edges def seemed work hardened. the file was catching a bit. I don't think the sidewall was in the way, I looked at that. I'll take another look at get back to you.
 
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Mike Faron

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I attached a couple pictures. Looks like the sidewall is about even with the edge. That shouldn't affect it since the file/stone would be on an angle sloping "away" from the sidewall right?
 

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oldschoolskier

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Base bevel of 1 is a good all around setting, less for those that want a faster response, more if you want more forgiveness (an there are applications for this).

Side bevel in conjunction with base bevel determines the overall sharpness. So a 1/2 setting is only 89 degrees or relative speaking on the duller side. A 1/3 is 88 which is considered sharp (norm).

I ski a 0.5/4 86.5 which is both extremely sharp and responsive. I have no issues with it, however, it does require confidence and some skill to ski this so would I recommend this to everyone, no.

Personally I think you have a good edge for 1/2, clean, no hanging burrs. Consider a 1/3 if you want bite on ice, though in all cases you will not have razors edge.

As to side wall trimming, its a matter of choice (the majority seems to think its required and recommend it for good reasons). Personally, I am looking for ski life and not micro-seconds in run, I don’t side wall trim. Additionally, I work with metal on a regular basis and IMHO side wall is softer than hardened metal edge any day, who cares from a sharpening perspective provided your curting tools are sharp.

In short.

1/2 is good
1/3 is better (my opinion)
No hanging burr a must no matter what you do.
Side wall trim, personal choice.

Sounds like you’re on the right track.
 

Toddski13

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Hi Mike! Your file actually will be angled towards the sidewall, not away from it. I’ve found Volkl sidewalls to be especially deceptive - the material tends to be soft enough to not seem in the way, but it very much is. Here is a good test for you: take a sharpie and mark the side edge from sidewall to apex in 3-4 places along the edge. Then file as you would and see if you remove all the sharpie. If you do, let’s circle back and see what other issues you could be having. If you don’t, the first thing to do would be remove sidewall material to be sure nothing is keeping you from filing the full width of the edge. A sidewall tool can have a bit of a learning curve, so alternatively you can get a panzer file and a 5 degree guide to ‘back file’ that material out of the way. Let us know what the sharpie test reveals.
 

offtraildog

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I use the same bevel angles on my Blizzard Brahmas and can get the edges sharp. I have planned my sidewalls (I heard from others it can get in the way) and I use the Swix World Cup fixed bevel guides. Just like when I sharpen my knives, I run a sharpie on the metal edge I am tuning to make sure I am getting the correct contact. When the black sharpie is removed, I move onto the next edge. I use Diaface stones going thru 200-400-600 unless I have a burr and then I use a Swix Medium file first.
When I pull my thumbnail across the edge, it cuts.
If you have been using your medium file often, as others have suggested, it might be the sidewall. Your local shop might plane them for you versus buying the tool.
Toko explains sidewall planing
 

mdf

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...the sidewall. Your local shop might plane them for you versus buying the tool.
That might be a good idea since it is (almost) a one-time thing. I found sidewall planing to be the trickiest part of tuning (hard to get it right, and hard to tell when you have it right, and it works differently on different skis).
 

Unpiste

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^^^ That ^^^

It's not too hard to cut back sidewalls with the proper tool and a little experience, but since a new ski is generally going to require a decent amount of prep work anyway if you want the absolute best performance, it's a lot easier to just take it to a good shop and have them set everything up (flatten base, cut sidewalls, set edge angles. etc.). I'll usually take a ski out with the factory tune until I want to start working on the edges (if the snow is soft and the tune is good, this could be a decent number of days) and then take them to a shop.

The problem with sidewalls is that they'll get in the way of finer files and clog up abrasive stones. Aggressive files should generally cut through them fine, but unless you use a higher bevel (6~7°) to cut the sidewall back away from the edge, you won't be able to hone the edges well after the initial cut.
 

CalG

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look at your edges carefully with a good hand glass under good light.

It's hard to see ski edges unaided. But the reality is there.
 

Jacques

Workin' It on Skis Best I Can
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Hey everyone,
I started tuning my own skis last year. I was tuning my kids skis and waxing my own skis last year. I have several pairs of skis, all mountain, GS, SL and I figured it would be cheaper to do it myself. I had a friend doing it for me before. Anyways, I've been getting them ready this week. I have a 3 year old pair of Volkl Kendos that I tuned yesterday. Since I haven't worked on them, I filed the base edge to 1 deg, then polished with 400 and 600 stones. Then I filed the side edge to 2 degrees and polished with the 400 and 600. I ran my finger across it and they don't seem that sharp. I've had several passes with the diamond stones and even tried to lightly re-file one of the edges. They still don't seem that sharp. I know it's hard for people to help since they can't see the skis but I feel like I'm missing something. How many passes with the file and stone do you guys do? I know that once I set the edges at 1,2 I shouldn't have to file anymore, just polish, unless the edges are damaged. I ran my finger nail across the edge (not along the edge but perpendicular to it) and it didn't take anything off. Is there a good "test" to know when edges are sharp enough. I examined them with a loupe and they don't look that bad.
Thanks
 

Jacques

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Always sidewall plane every time before you file a side edge.
The BEAST 7 degree will work on any type of side wall and needs no adjustments. When the panzar section gets dull, replace it. Best to get several of the sections so you don't get caught with your pants down.
 

jkalucki

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Even the sharpest ski edges aren't sharp in the knife sense. How are you determining sharpness? Are you test skiing on ice, or trying to get a curl off your fingernail, or using the plastic tube method in the video above? If you can't get a fairly clean curl off a fingernail, not just some powdery material, the edges really aren't that sharp...
 
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Mike Faron

In the parking lot (formerly "At the base lodge")
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Thanks for all the input everyone. I used a sharpie and marked up the metal edge and also the sidewall at about 6 inch intervals along the ski. I then filed with a 2 deg fixed file and the sharpie was fully removed from the metal edge. The sharpie on the sidewall was removed along some portions of the ski and on other portions it was partially removed (by that I mean it was dull in color). I did realize the file is definitely taking off some of the sidewall. Does that mean I should keep doing it like this or remove the sidewall? I know there were two schools of thought above. one reply said to leave it and file it down and several said to remove the sidewall.

Also, the edge is taking off some of my fingernail as it, but it's definitely not curling. it's a residue for the most part, which comes off pretty easily with light pressure.

Also, I'm thinking of doing edges at 1,3. I know there are tons of threads on this forum about that as I've already searched up on that. but i don't think that 1 deg is really that big a difference, so I think I'll just do it. But if I do that of course there is the sidewall issue that will come up again.
 
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CalG

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cut the side wall back. the plastic clogs the file teeth and prevents a good cut on the metal.

Plus, there will be less drag on the snow when you are really rail'n 'em. Faster is better! ;-)
 

CalG

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This is a good tool

Good for many ski base applications. It will really flatten a base fill repair.
Just don't use it on work hardend edges. Stone the damage first.
 

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