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Ski&ride

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Ok, now that we’ve beaten the “width” horse truly to the death and beyond (https://www.pugski.com/threads/why-so-wide.15351/). Here’s a promising demo list of 75-80mm skis for me to take to some man-made WROD next fall. ;)

— Stockli Laser AX 78/Motion 85

— Nordica Navigator 80

— Liberty VMT76/78/(w)

— Volkl Kanjo

(There’re still one or two late suggestions, some DPS’s that I haven’t got around to look into yet)

Here’s the background that led to the list, summarized from the other thread:

Skier: 5’4, 120lb, advanced “all mountain” skier. Not young, but still fit and fairly athletic.

I put “all-mountain” in quote because this is a strictly eastern 1-ski quiver. So no consideration for 18” bottomless blower powder. :(

Requirements short version: skis will be used in anything from flash freeze groomer to spring thaw bumps, add a lot of trees.


That said, here’s the emphasis (requirement long version):
  1. I don’t ski at mach speed. And with my (lack of) weight, stiff groomer carvers are OFF the table.
  2. That said, it should still carve. I turn a lot. I can fit 5 turns where others make one. I just don’t rail it at high speed.
  3. I don’t purposely ski refrozen groomer. But if I calculate wrong and found myself on one, it should still grip on hard pack, at least at moderate speed.
  4. Trees and bumps, A LOT.But only when they’re soft. I ski the “roundabout” line in the bumps, ie the slow line. And I don’t even ski them slow line fast. But I do strive to ski them smoothly and fluidly. (I would classify myself as a technical finesse skier)

Basically, trying to strike a balance between decent edge grip (stiffer) and bump-friendliness (softer). Bonus point for skis that are torsionally strong underfoot but with soft tip/tail.

I like to say I only use groomer to get to the trees. But in the east, the trees are quite often just unskiable toboggan runs. Realistically, it’s 50/50 groomer vs bumps/trees.

Again, keeping it under 84mm in the waist and 160 in length (162 if there’s tip “riser/rocker”), for reason outlined in the original thread.
 
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Ken_R

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I would go with the Stockli, it has panache, in spades :D

I mean, I have yet to meet anyone that has a Stockli that is not really happy they go it. :huh:

:popcorn:
 

Cheizz

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I would go with the Stockli, it has panache, in spades :D

I mean, I have yet to meet anyone that has a Stockli that is not really happy they go it. :huh:

:popcorn:
I don't HAVE the Stöckli, because I didn't like to ski it...

The Laser AX is much less 'all mountain' than the other skis listed, IMO. It's just a wider hard snow ski, like the Fischer Curv GT, for example. If you are looking for a one-ski-quiver type of thing for a light skier, the Kanjo is a good option. I would suggest the 2019 Rossignol Experience 84 AI as well.
 

Lauren

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I’d entertain the Volkl RTM. Though they are changing it to the Deacon for 2020, and I have not been on the new model, so cannot comment on the newer model. However, I think the 84 (or even the 81), would fit the bill you’re looking for. At 10-15 lbs and 1 inch larger than you, I can ski them in any conditions, and they do well in just about everything but with a definite hard-snow ski bias.
 

ted

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I agree most skis in this waist width are more carver than AM.

I own the Kanjo and have demoed the Navigator series.

For me they skied very differently, but definitely don't feel like carvers and are more AM.

I really like the Kanjo. The longer radius sidecut, especially in the tail, makes the ski easy to skid when needed. The tip is still there when rolled over aggressively it initiates really well. Its turn radius is longer, but the center of the ski is soft enough, and the camber minimum enough that with aggressive weighting, it will carve much shorter turns than the radius suggests. I also like longer turns than you prefer, and I open it up whenever I can.

The Navigator was so easy to ski, it was like the ski wasn't even there. The tip rocker/taper was enough that, despite the smaller radius, I didn't feel like I could engage the tip for carves. Turns start further back on the ski. Nothing wrong with that, just not the feeling for me. I almost bought a pair to use as an exclusive bump ski. I think it would shine in bumps. No bumps were available though when I demoed. But for me, the lack of tip engagement and shorter radius pushed me to the Kanjo.

I'm happy with the Kanjo, but from what you mention above, recommend trying the Navigator. The tip is narrower than the Kanjo so less stress on your knees, shorter radius, super easy turning ski. If you go with the Aura version, Nordica says it's a 78, even better for you. Avoid the Women's system version (CA)- it seems very dumbed down for your skill level.

While the above mentioned Stockli, RTM, and Atomic are all great skis, for what you are looking for, they are much more carver biased. The tips lack taper and are much wider. I have an older RTM 80 that is flat, skids well on groomers due to the lack of camber, so I thought they would be great bump skis. But I find the wider, non-tapered tips hooky in anything ungroomed.
 

tball

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The Navigator was so easy to ski, it was like the ski wasn't even there. The tip rocker/taper was enough that, despite the smaller radius, I didn't feel like I could engage the tip for carves. Turns start further back on the ski. Nothing wrong with that, just not the feeling for me. I almost bought a pair to use as an exclusive bump ski. I think it would shine in bumps. No bumps were available though when I demoed. But for me, the lack of tip engagement and shorter radius pushed me to the Kanjo.
How firm was it when you felt like you couldn't engage the tips?

The lack of tip engagement in "icy" conditions is my primary criticism of the Navigator 80, but I only noticed it one day out of 20. In softer snow (think typical Colorado winter conditions) the tip was there for me when I rolled the ski on edge, but it disappeared my one day on very firm refrozen steep groomers as I described here:

I skied the Navigators in every condition from eight inches of powder, spring corn, slush, refrozen bumps and groomers to perfect corduroy and everything in between. The only time they failed me was on crappy refrozen bumps and skied off "icy" steep groomers where I really wanted my skis with stiffer and less rockered tips to fight back against that evil snow that nobody was having fun skiing. I also think a longer 179 Navigator 80 would have helped in those conditions...
https://www.pugski.com/threads/all-mountain-ski-that-is-great-in-the-bumps.14780/page-2#post-352480
 
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ted

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Well not that icy for here, but it's Mid Atlantic flattish groomers. That feel would probably be gone on any higher end terrain.
 

Wilhelmson

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A badly tuned or detuned ski could suck on ice but feel fine in moguls or softer snow.
 

tball

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A badly tuned or detuned ski could suck on ice but feel fine in moguls or softer snow.
No doubt, but not the case here. I just had them tuned. I switched to a different ski that was also just tuned (both by the same good tuner) and the tips were solid. It's like they shrunk a size due to the rocker. I used to occasionally ski Salomon s3's that did the same, but worse. They got super short on firm snow.
 
Thread Starter
TS
S

Ski&ride

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Thanks ted and tball, for the detailed description of the characteristics of the kanjo and Navigator. That’ll help me to pay attention to those differences when demo’ing
 
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Thread Starter
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Ski&ride

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THIS!!!!!!

It checks all the boxes AND is the size you need! AND it is a cool ski!
First, I don’t choose skis because it’s “cool” in somebody’s book.

2nd, this is a demo list.

I don’t suppose you read the 15 pages of the original thread to arrive at the correct impression that I “over think” my ski purchase. Doesn’t make me a good potential target to push your personal favorite, without demo.

If you have personal experience or specific information regarding that ski (beyond “cool”), I’m all ears. Otherwise, you’re not doing the seller any favor by pushing it onto everyone who shows the slightest bit of interest.
 
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Thread Starter
TS
S

Ski&ride

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I don't HAVE the Stöckli, because I didn't like to ski it...

The Laser AX is much less 'all mountain' than the other skis listed, IMO. It's just a wider hard snow ski, like the Fischer Curv GT, for example. If you are looking for a one-ski-quiver type of thing for a light skier, the Kanjo is a good option. I would suggest the 2019 Rossignol Experience 84 AI as well.
Am I reading the specs right? The Experience 84 has a 135mm shovel? That’s huge!
 

PinnacleJim

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I am also on the smaller side (5'7" and 160 lbs) with very similar requirements to you for an eastern ski. I recently picked up the Head V8 on clearance. The V8 is mid-70s width, light, and less demanding and more forgiving than the Head Supershapes and Monsters. I had demoed it last fall at a Killington demo day and loved it. A great ski for lighter advanced to expert eastern skiers.
 

Lauren

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This might be shied away from for being a women’s ski...but the Head Total Joy might be an excellent ski to check your boxes.
 

Tony S

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First, I don’t choose skis because it’s “cool” in somebody’s book.

2nd, this is a demo list.

I don’t suppose you read the 15 pages of the original thread to arrive at the correct impression that I “over think” my ski purchase. Doesn’t make me a good potential target to push your personal favorite, without demo.

If you have personal experience or specific information regarding that ski (beyond “cool”), I’m all ears. Otherwise, you’re not doing the seller any favor by pushing it onto everyone who shows the slightest bit of interest.

That's not what @Wendy is doing. Search the site for comments on the ski, and read the for sale thread. There are grounds for thinking it's a good candidate.
 
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