Camp and Woolsey Wildfires 11/18

[Tony]

Pollution index up to 350 in Chico and 337 in Sacramento at 11 AM. San Jose still below 200, but I can't get a more local reading as websites may be overloaded.
We also have a more local fire that started at 1 AM this morning in the Santa Cruz Mountains near Boulder Creek.

I have not gone outside other than to take picture I posted above, but may spend 20-30 minutes putting cover back on RV. And I'll have to think about two mile walk I usually make with our dogs to a 5 PM wine tasting (Morgan tonight) at a local high-end grocery store. If we are in town and not otherwise busy, I usually meet my wife who goes there from work, and catch I ride home with her. With a beard a mask does not work on me. They say (for 24 hours of exposure "The “very unhealthy” levels in parts of the Bay Area would be like smoking half a pack, and the “unhealthy” levels reported elsewhere would be like five or six cigarettes."

This is also going on in Chico: https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/11...-to-be-booted-out-of-chico-walmart-tent-city/
For those that can't see it behind the paywall, it starts with: "Hundreds of people displaced by the Camp Fire camping outside of the Chico Walmart are being asked to leave by Sunday — and many of them are unsure of where they will go next.

As news spread throughout the camp on Thursday, there was confusion about who exactly had given the order to get people out.


Chicoan Luigi Balsamo, who identified himself as one of the organizers of the operation, said it was the Red Cross.


However, a Red Cross spokesperson strongly denied that the organization — which has no jurisdiction over the area — had anything to do with it.


“I don’t think anyone wants to take responsibility for it, but the bottom line is Mother Nature is going to need us to shut it down,” Balsamo said. “It’s going to rain. Everybody running the place needs answers so we’re all in favor of the deadline because we can’t keep sustaining that thing.”

Rain is in the forecast by Thanksgiving."

People really need help, with gift card and money preferred. On Tuesday, I donated to both the Red Cross and a gofundme for a friend's bandmate's son and family who lost their home and business in Paradise. They were lucky to get out with their children and pets. https://www.gofundme.com/edington-family-and-business

 

[skibob]

Pollution index up to 350 in Chico and 337 in Sacramento at 11 AM. San Jose still below 200, but I can't get a more local reading as websites may be overloaded.
We also have a more local fire that started at 1 AM this morning in the Santa Cruz Mountains near Boulder Creek.

I have not gone outside other than to take picture I posted above, but may spend 20-30 minutes putting cover back on RV. And I'll have to think about two mile walk I usually make with our dogs to a 5 PM wine tasting (Morgan tonight) at a local high-end grocery store. If we are in town and not otherwise busy, I usually meet my wife who goes there from work, and catch I ride home with her. With a beard a mask does not work on me. They say (for 24 hours of exposure "The “very unhealthy” levels in parts of the Bay Area would be like smoking half a pack, and the “unhealthy” levels reported elsewhere would be like five or six cigarettes."

This is also going on in Chico: https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/11...-to-be-booted-out-of-chico-walmart-tent-city/
For those that can't see it behind the paywall, it starts with: "Hundreds of people displaced by the Camp Fire camping outside of the Chico Walmart are being asked to leave by Sunday — and many of them are unsure of where they will go next.

As news spread throughout the camp on Thursday, there was confusion about who exactly had given the order to get people out.


Chicoan Luigi Balsamo, who identified himself as one of the organizers of the operation, said it was the Red Cross.


However, a Red Cross spokesperson strongly denied that the organization — which has no jurisdiction over the area — had anything to do with it.


“I don’t think anyone wants to take responsibility for it, but the bottom line is Mother Nature is going to need us to shut it down,” Balsamo said. “It’s going to rain. Everybody running the place needs answers so we’re all in favor of the deadline because we can’t keep sustaining that thing.”

Rain is in the forecast by Thanksgiving."

People really need help, with gift card and money preferred. On Tuesday, I donated to both the Red Cross and a gofundme for a friend's bandmate's son and family who lost their home and business in Paradise. They were lucky to get out with their children and pets. https://www.gofundme.com/edington-family-and-business

Drove by the Sonoma County Fairgrounds RV lot yesterday. Full. Literally not a space to be had. Outside of fair time, usually 10-15 camps occupied in a 150 space RV park.

 

[luliski]

Not sure what you are asking, but AFAIK the fire will not get there. There are a lot of people who were burned out of Paradise living in WalMart parking lot in Chico. I can't get current pollution levels reading on purpleair.com but
https://airnow.gov/state/CA/index.cfm says Chico was 320 and Sacramento was 316 at 9 AM. San Francisco was 233 and San Rafael was 230. While San Jose, where I live shows as 180, I think it is higher in my neighborhood 5+ mi SE of downtown.

First picture is sunrise today over 2500' ridge 2 miles E of my house this morning. Ridge is barely visible in middle just below and mostly to left of sun.
View attachment 58295

Second picture is sunset from a week ago. Smoke has gotten worse since this Wed. afternoon. By road we are over 200 miles from Paradise. In a straight line it is probably about 175 miles. View attachment 58296

Davis air quality was In "hazardous" range last night when I left work, and this morning it's in the "very unhealthy" range. This is the worst I've ever seen it here. But at least our town didn't burn down. I've seen many posts on Facebook with links to GoFundMe pages for friends or family of friends. One of them was for my locksmith, who happens to be my nephew's friend's stepfather. He commuted from Paradise for work, and just happened to have stayed home to take his wife to an appointment on the day the fire got out of control. Because he stayed home, he was able to get his family out of town safely using backroads, but they lost their home. They at least have some resources, but there seem to have been many people in the area with poor support systems and a lack of resources.

 

[Philpug]

Moderators may want to start a new thread for 2018 California fires..

We have 2018 Mountain Biking Stoke...2018 "your region here" skiing threads...it is disturbing that we might need a 2019 California Fire thread...planning for devistation discussion threads is disturbing . It is a sad state we live in when we are considering this...sadly you might be right.

 

[Tricia]

This story has been circulating around Facebook, but I though it should be shared here.
The Paradise SDA school's Volley Ball team lost everything in the fire. The Forest Lake Christian School in Auburn came through with a bunch of stuff to help the Paradise girls play against them, including uniforms, knee pads, socks, etc...
See full article here in USA Today HSS
This is such a beautiful thing for this team/school to do. Gives me hope for humanity.

 

[Tony]

If people are looking to donate and don't want to give to the Red Cross or a gofundme for someone they don't know or have some connection to, other options are North Valley Community Foundation www.nvcf.org or Tri Counties Bank www.gofundme/tcb-2018-camp-fire-fund

The following was part of an article in the San Jose News yesterday with their quotes and my italics and bolding:

“Climate change is not the cause of these fires,” said Park Williams, a climate scientist at Columbia University’s Lamont–Doherty Earth Observatory in New York. “But the warmer atmosphere is causing most fires to be harder to contain. They are burning bigger and hotter.”

The numbers are stark. California has warmed roughly 3 degrees Fahrenheit since 1980 during the autumn months of September, October and November. Rainfall in those months has fallen by about one-third over the same time. And the result has been a state increasingly on fire.

 

[Tricia]

If people are looking to donate and don't want to give to the Red Cross or a gofundme for someone they don't know or have some connection to, other options are North Valley Community Foundation www.nvcf.org or Tri Counties Bank www.gofundme/tcb-2018-camp-fire-fund

The following was part of an article in the San Jose News yesterday with their quotes and my italics and bolding:

“Climate change is not the cause of these fires,” said Park Williams, a climate scientist at Columbia University’s Lamont–Doherty Earth Observatory in New York. “But the warmer atmosphere is causing most fires to be harder to contain. They are burning bigger and hotter.”

The numbers are stark. California has warmed roughly 3 degrees Fahrenheit since 1980 during the autumn months of September, October and November. Rainfall in those months has fallen by about one-third over the same time. And the result has been a state increasingly on fire.

Thanks for sharing this information.

 

[luliski]

Today our air quality is upgraded to "unhealthy for sensitive groups." Our Masters swim team has implemented a new air quality policy and cancels practices when the air quality is in the "very unhealthy" range," but I stayed away until we got to "unhealthy for sensitive groups." It felt great to swim today.

Our club has at least one new swimmer from Paradise. Our coach said he offered her a complimentary membership, but she declined, saying she had money, just not a home .

 

[SSSdave]

Authorities have not fully learned lessons about how fast high wind driven fires can spread in such dry digger pine blue oak savanna chaparral landscapes despite Oakland Hills, Redding, and Santa Rosa wildfire catastrophes.

Given the wind conditions already expected 2 days before the Camp Fire, authorities all along Sierra foothills should have been in hair trigger mode for instant evacuations immediately at the sign of ANY fires up wind of communities. Instead the response was as though it was just another ho hum fire like in Paradise in 2008 without strong winds with a plan to gradually evacuate residents in stages. I read that only 34% of Paradise residents signed up for the phone/email notification system after the 2008 fire. Then the town and residents seemed to go back to sleep.

If the fire was spotted at 6:30am and did not reach Paradise for 90 minutes, it was a huge mistake not to have alerted Paradise residents as soon as possible, instead of waiting till the fire actually spread across 5 to 7 miles of forest over 90 minutes. No need for yakking and consensus about what, when, where, how to do, once any up wind fire started. If residents were alerted at 7am, they would have had time to grab important belongings and start driving west on roads without any of the peril and confusion of driving roads engulfed in smoke and flames. Instead at 8am as fires began burning the east side of town, the first evacuation orders were issued just for those areas. And many on that side of town didn't receive any due to their system being down so police used loudspeakers. It was at 9:30am after the town was becoming an inferno, the rest of the evacuation orders were issue.

I've read some exaggerated BS of how fast the fire spread. News reports show the first flames reached Paradise a distance of 5 to 7 miles about 8am or 90 minutes after starting at 6:30am or about one football field a minute. Do the math yourself. Authorities have obviously not been mentioning that delay and instead are trying to go with the story they did not have enough time. The smoke reached Paradise in just a few minutes after 6:30am because it was upwind however only those up at sunrise probably noticed it. That is why such towns need loud sirens and should have set them off immediately without any "discussions".

There are a list of societal directions to point fingers at. The sad thing is after all these recent decades of catastrophes, sane solutions are still being ignored. One of the greatest issues is human behavior. If such events only occur once every few dozen years, people are lulled into ignoring it all. Even after huge areas are incinerated nearby, many will continue to put their heads back in the sand as soon as it quiets down. Just consider how insane much of the growth continues into such fire prone chaparral areas around Los Angeles region despite monstrous Santa Ana blazes going back decades. Of course all this plays into the vast power of growth and development interests and all their political allies. There are several worse potential Sierra Nevada foothill areas with greater populations that could suffer the same fate. Areas west of State Route 49 like Grass Valley, Auburn, Placerville down to Roseville and Folsom. Drive roads into any of those areas and one will seen myriad expensive homes built overgrown with vegetation that look wonderfully green in April but dry, brown desiccated by October. In fact Calfire has maps that show all these areas and the news media has occasionally had articles that continue to receive yawns.

The other stupid mistake in planning at a STATE LEVEL was the nonsense of just using cellphones or email for communication. A lot of good that is ever going to do if a fire starts late at night when people are sleeping. Especially considering how not everyone even owns a cellphone or activates cellphones at night or sleeps next to their cellphones. Instead all larger communities along the Sierra Nevada foothills as well as like communities where such winds occur in our northern Coastal Range, should have had loud air raid sirens, the sound of which is frightening and can be heard over miles, certain to shock any that hear such into action just like we old folks experienced as kids during the cold war years and they use today in the Midwest where tornadoes are common.

 

[Tricia]

This post from FB is so
Knowing there are 1000 missing and seeing the list is just so mind blowing.

Here is a link to the Butte County missing list http://www.buttecounty.net/Portals/...jpn_1hmrJE1uuMsPAWs8kDMBtktHx3yc07azUzxuPiraA
Note how many of the ages listed are older people.

 

[Eleeski]

Lets hope the list reflects disorganized communication, not something worse.

Authorities have not fully learned lessons about how fast high wind driven fires can spread in such dry digger pine blue oak savanna chaparral landscapes despite Oakland Hills, Redding, and Santa Rosa wildfire catastrophes.

Given the wind conditions already expected 2 days before the Camp Fire, authorities all along Sierra foothills should have been in hair trigger mode for instant evacuations immediately at the sign of ANY fires up wind of communities. Instead the response was as though it was just another ho hum fire like in Paradise in 2008 without strong winds with a plan to gradually evacuate residents in stages. I read that only 34% of Paradise residents signed up for the phone/email notification system after the 2008 fire. Then the town and residents seemed to go back to sleep.

If the fire was spotted at 6:30am and did not reach Paradise for 90 minutes, it was a huge mistake not to have alerted Paradise residents as soon as possible, instead of waiting till the fire actually spread across 5 to 7 miles of forest over 90 minutes. No need for yakking and consensus about what, when, where, how to do, once any up wind fire started. If residents were alerted at 7am, they would have had time to grab important belongings and start driving west on roads without any of the peril and confusion of driving roads engulfed in smoke and flames. Instead at 8am as fires began burning the east side of town, the first evacuation orders were issued just for those areas. And many on that side of town didn't receive any due to their system being down so police used loudspeakers. It was at 9:30am after the town was becoming an inferno, the rest of the evacuation orders were issue.

I've read some exaggerated BS of how fast the fire spread. News reports show the first flames reached Paradise a distance of 5 to 7 miles about 8am or 90 minutes after starting at 6:30am or about one football field a minute. Do the math yourself. Authorities have obviously not been mentioning that delay and instead are trying to go with the story they did not have enough time. The smoke reached Paradise in just a few minutes after 6:30am because it was upwind however only those up at sunrise probably noticed it. That is why such towns need loud sirens and should have set them off immediately without any "discussions".

There are a list of societal directions to point fingers at. The sad thing is after all these recent decades of catastrophes, sane solutions are still being ignored. One of the greatest issues is human behavior. If such events only occur once every few dozen years, people are lulled into ignoring it all. Even after huge areas are incinerated nearby, many will continue to put their heads back in the sand as soon as it quiets down. Just consider how insane much of the growth continues into such fire prone chaparral areas around Los Angeles region despite monstrous Santa Ana blazes going back decades. Of course all this plays into the vast power of growth and development interests and all their political allies. There are several worse potential Sierra Nevada foothill areas with greater populations that could suffer the same fate. Areas west of State Route 49 like Grass Valley, Auburn, Placerville down to Roseville and Folsom. Drive roads into any of those areas and one will seen myriad expensive homes built overgrown with vegetation that look wonderfully green in April but dry, brown desiccated by October. In fact Calfire has maps that show all these areas and the news media has occasionally had articles that continue to receive yawns.

The other stupid mistake in planning at a STATE LEVEL was the nonsense of just using cellphones or email for communication. A lot of good that is ever going to do if a fire starts late at night when people are sleeping. Especially considering how not everyone even owns a cellphone or activates cellphones at night or sleeps next to their cellphones. Instead all larger communities along the Sierra Nevada foothills as well as like communities where such winds occur in our northern Coastal Range, should have had loud air raid sirens, the sound of which is frightening and can be heard over miles, certain to shock any that hear such into action just like we old folks experienced as kids during the cold war years and they use today in the Midwest where tornadoes are common.

I have two houses in Tahoe. One is modern, built to fire resistant codes that has a decent chance of surviving most fire scenarios. The risk is that the neighbor's tinderbox house will melt mine. My other house is old and will probably not survive a serious fire (a tinderbox for neighbors). Should I be forced to tear down that house prophylactically OR clear as best I can and hope? When all of San Diego county burned a decade ago, newer houses survived - even in the heart of the backcountry. This is not a long term problem if you look at it cynically, replacement houses will resist such fires.

I had my house burn down years ago (don't store propane indoors). Didn't get my wallet out, lost everything, no insurance. I was lucky to not have been injured. It was tough but it is just stuff I lost. I have a good life afterwards and recovered financially. I hope the people who lost houses in the fire are able to recover well.

Eric

 

[Tricia]

Reno Gazette has a then and now article with some fascinating views of 2018 and 2019 shots.
Its clear that the town is just gone. Lots of clean-up but no real rebuilding.
https://www.rgj.com/story/news/2019...sJweoGTGevCGlyXN0v4ADRBKIHdNx7A-ZfkU3_WP5sVNw