Camp and Woolsey Wildfires 11/18

[graham418]

The recent and continuing fires in Camp and Woolsey are constantly on our news lately. I am amazed at the devastation. It doesn't seem that there is any end in sight. I feel for everyone that's been affected. So many people displaced, its shocking! I hope that no one here has lost anything or anybody.



Moderator edit:
This thread was started from posts taken from the Sonoma/Napa fire thread from 2017

 

[skibob]

The recent and continuing fires in Camp and Woolsey are constantly on our news lately. I am amazed at the devastation. It doesn't seem that there is any end in sight. I feel for everyone that's been affected. So many people displaced, its shocking! I hope that no one here has lost anything or anybody.

I really hoped our fire wouldn't be so quickly displaced from the distinction of "most expensive" and "most deadly" in history. But it has. Sadly

People around here are getting back to normal slowly. But rebuilding is a headache for many. Some have left the area. Still, we only lost 10% of homes in the city. They've lost damn near the whole city.

Then there is the trauma aspect. Last thursday the smoke (and ash) blew in very suddenly. People freaked out. Who could imagine it was more than 100 miles away.

 

[DanoT]

With the number of deaths and missing people I am wondering is it due to people not getting enough advance notice to evacuate or is it due to people not obeying the evac order?

 

[Tony]

90% of the homes in Paradise, CA (population 27,000) were burned by the Camp Fire which started 5? miles away at 6:30 AM on Thursday. There are limited roads out of the area which is on a long ridge and many people died trying to get out and got stuck in traffic. Also there are a lot of retired people in the area and strong winds moved the fire very fast. The short answer is evacuation notices were too late, but even if given when the fire started it may have still been too late for some people.

Moderators may want to start a new thread for 2018 California fires. I live almost 200 miles away and we’ve had heavy smoke since last Friday. It lightened up enough that I ran early on Sunday, my first run in a long time as I’m ‘training’ for a 5K Turkey Trot. Yesterday our pollution level was about 150 so I went to the coast where it was only 100 for a bike ride. Today we are closer to 200 and I can barely see 2500’ ridge two miles away. Oroville and Chico, a lot closer to fire, have been experiencing pollution levels of 500-600.

 

[Tricia]

This has been weighing on my mind.
I was working at the shop the past several days, seeing people that aren't normally around during shoulder season because they've been trying to escape the smoke from the Camp Fire.
Worse yet, a man came into the shop yesterday to find a day pack for hiking and some essentials that are "all gone". His words, "If it wasn't in my truck, it doesn't exist anymore."
His home in Paradise, CA, gone He's not sure about some of his friends and community members because most aren't reachable...
His mind was wandering, he wasn't focused on what he really wanted, and we really couldn't do much besides being kind.
The only thing he purchased was a pair of sunglasses. Thought he may be back for the hiking essentials later because he feels he needs to get out and get some fresh air instead if being held up in a motel room watching the grim news about the fire and arguing with the insurance company about why he doesn't have receipts. (perhaps because they are all gone along with the house and all the items the receipts would reflect)

The last thing someone wants to hear is, "At least you're alive"

 

[skibob]

With the number of deaths and missing people I am wondering is it due to people not getting enough advance notice to evacuate or is it due to people not obeying the evac order?

I am sure there is some of the latter. But having lived through it myself (the tubbs fire burned everything within 1/4 mile of my house on two sides in santa rosa last year) I can tell you unequivocally that the problem is lack of notice. A lot of people want to blame authorities and whatnot. But the fundamental problem is we've never seen anything like this before. There are lots of really smart and sincere people trying to figure this out.

The Tubbs fire started at 10pm and by 2am was 35,000 acres, had destroyed nearly 5,000 homes (closer to 6,000 before contained). And I had been awak for only 20 minutes. Alerted by a neighbor. Truth is, we didn't know iit at the time, but we'd already been spared. In the first 3 hours the fire was making a beeline for our house. Then the wind changed by a 60 degrees or so and blew past us to the north and west.

I regularly go by the spot down the street where a police cruiser burned and melted onto the road. Why? Because it caught on fire while the officers were going door to door ensuring that people were out--in the middle of the inferno. These two had to flag down a passing car and hitch a ride. As the death toll in the Camp fire mounts, I am reminded what an amazing job our first responders did that night getting people the hell out of the way.

But an effective mass alert system does not exist yet. And it needs to.

 

[skibob]

This has been weighing on my mind.
I was working at the shop the past several days, seeing people that aren't normally around during shoulder season because they've been trying to escape the smoke from the Camp Fire.
Worse yet, a man came into the shop yesterday to find a day pack for hiking and some essentials that are "all gone". His words, "If it wasn't in my truck, it doesn't exist anymore."
His home in Paradise, CA, gone He's not sure about some of his friends and community members because most aren't reachable...
His mind was wandering, he wasn't focused on what he really wanted, and we really couldn't do much besides being kind.
The only thing he purchased was a pair of sunglasses. Thought he may be back for the hiking essentials later because he feels he needs to get out and get some fresh air instead if being held up in a motel room watching the grim news about the fire and arguing with the insurance company about why he doesn't have receipts. (perhaps because they are all gone along with the house and all the items the receipts would reflect)

The last thing someone wants to hear is, "At least you're alive"

Wise words Tricia. But I want to add to the last sentence. Events like this give you a profound appreciation for being alive. I've experienced it after a very, very narrow escape. And for my many, many friends who lost everything its even more palpable. It may sound cliche but its real. On October 9 I drove down my street at 2am with fire destroying everything 1/4 mile on two sides and about 2 miles away on a third side. I'll never forget the bizarre blissful feeling of resignation. Everything on earth that matters to me is in this car with me. Nothing else matters at all. At that moment I honestly thought my home would be destroyed within the hour. And I just . . . its not that I didn't care, but in that moment it was acceptable. I was at peace with it.

 

[Tricia]

@DanoT The description of the fire that the guy told me in the store yesterday is that the town is near a canyon, and the wind swept through it like a blow torch.
With the winds, this fire was burning 80 acres per minute. Think about that!
Here is an article in the WP
https://www.washingtonpost.com/weat...ning-acres-per-minute/?utm_term=.08bf296c0661

Here is a video of that area from 3 years ago

 

[Tony]

Another big problem is that people like living near and in the woods and if a big fire gets going when it is dry and windy, it can move fast, jump highways and is very hard to stop until it runs out of trees to burn.

I heard on the radio today that many of those (that have been identified so far) who died in the Camp fire were disabled or elderly.

 

[skibob]

Another big problem is that people like living near and in the woods and if a big fire gets going when it is dry and windy, it can move fast, jump highways and is very hard to stop until it runs out of trees to burn.

I heard on the radio today that many of those (that have been identified so far) who died in the Camp fire were disabled or elderly.

Sadly, that was true of the Tubbs fire as well.

 

[Tricia]

Wise words Tricia. But I want to add to the last sentence. Events like this give you a profound appreciation for being alive. I've experienced it after a very, very narrow escape. And for my many, many friends who lost everything its even more palpable. It may sound cliche but its real. On October 9 I drove down my street at 2am with fire destroying everything 1/4 mile on two sides and about 2 miles away on a third side. I'll never forget the bizarre blissful feeling of resignation. Everything on earth that matters to me is in this car with me. Nothing else matters at all. At that moment I honestly thought my home would be destroyed within the hour. And I just . . . its not that I didn't care, but in that moment it was acceptable. I was at peace with it.

This guy was clearly happy that he got out with his life, but there was something about our interaction with him that told me that "At least you got out with your life" was not something he wanted to hear in that moment.
He was clearly feeling blessed and devastated at the same time.

 

[Andy Mink]

He was clearly feeling blessed and devastated at the same time.

Survivors guilt. You feel guilty for being alive when so many others aren't.

 

[Tricia]

Survivors guilt. You feel guilty for being alive when so many others aren't.

Beyond that, how many of the dead are close to him, and further, he has no home and none of his belongings.
He was talking about specific things, like amplifiers, guitars, keyboards, sound board, skis,....
He was rambling but also very clear...you know what I mean?

 

[Andy Mink]

Beyond that, how many of the dead are close to him, and further, he has no home and none of his belongings.
He was talking about specific things, like amplifiers, guitars, keyboards, sound board, skis,....
He was rambling but also very clear...you know what I mean?

Shock. Way too much to process.

 

[graham418]

Wow . I just heard that the deaths are up and the missing peoples are at 631. That is an unbelievable number. Sure hope they become accounted for (in a good way). It doesn't look like there is any relief in site. No wonder your man was rambling. A shocking situation to be certain

 

[Lorenzzo]

I have a friend whose son does forest fire fighting around the west out of UT who was summoned to NoCal to to work on the Paradise fire. He's traumatized despite having done this type of work for years. This is second hand but he says almost every firefighter out there is wanting to know the variables, known and unknown factors as even they are trying to understand the timing of events that led to so many people being caught in the fire. It isn't as much to assign blame but to understand what happened. He has stated before it's only a matter of time before a 100 year fire takes out part or all of a large urban area. Firestorms and their effects are difficult to comprehend even for the pros and there's just a limit as to what can be done when 40+ mph dry winds combine with fire.

 

[skibob]

Wow . I just heard that the deaths are up and the missing peoples are at 631. That is an unbelievable number. Sure hope they become accounted for (in a good way). It doesn't look like there is any relief in site. No wonder your man was rambling. A shocking situation to be certain

In the days after the Santa Rosa fires our missing topped 3,000. The vast majority of those will be located alive and well. Sadly, some significant # will not.

 

[cantunamunch]

What's the situation in Chico?

 

[skibob]

What's the situation in Chico?

With 45% containment, I would assume that is the line along 99 and the southeast flank of Chico. I think Chico will be safe.

http://www.fire.ca.gov/general/firemaps

 

[Tony]

What's the situation in Chico?

Not sure what you are asking, but AFAIK the fire will not get there. There are a lot of people who were burned out of Paradise living in WalMart parking lot in Chico. I can't get current pollution levels reading on purpleair.com but
https://airnow.gov/state/CA/index.cfm says Chico was 320 and Sacramento was 316 at 9 AM. San Francisco was 233 and San Rafael was 230. While San Jose, where I live shows as 180, I think it is higher in my neighborhood 5+ mi SE of downtown.

First picture is sunrise today over 2500' ridge 2 miles E of my house this morning. Ridge is barely visible in middle just below and mostly to left of sun.

Second picture is sunset from a week ago. Smoke has gotten worse since this Wed. afternoon. By road we are over 200 miles from Paradise. In a straight line it is probably about 175 miles.