• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

Buying boots while traveling to Europe?

ccsasuke

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Mar 15, 2018
Posts
40
I'm an intermediate skier with 15 - 20 ski days, and I'm about to get my first set of gears for this season (been renting before).

I understand that my best option for the boots is to go to a bootfitter, but my question is: I will be traveling to Europe soon and it seems things there are much cheaper there (VAT refund & no state tax). I plan to pick up a pair of skis there, but for the boots, do you think it is safe enough to get a pair of boots fitted there while essentially giving up customer services? How likely is it that I feel something wrong after the first day of skiing when I'm back?
 

Magi

Instructor
Instructor
Joined
Apr 8, 2017
Posts
404
Location
Winter Park, Colorado
... for the boots, do you think it is safe enough to get a pair of boots fitted there while essentially giving up customer services? How likely is it that I feel something wrong after the first day of skiing when I'm back?

Basically - I'd suggest you buy your boots where you'll be able to reliably have them worked on.
If that's not an option - weigh the risk of the Europe fitting going wrong against the cost of your vacation. (Nothing like ruining your feet on day one and being unable to ski the rest of the time)
You can hedge some of the "going wrong" part by bringing your existing boots with you, but then you're carrying/shipping two pair of boots home.
 

P-Ute

Getting off the lift
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Aug 21, 2018
Posts
111
Location
SLC
I have skied in the Alps for the last 4 winters and I have not noted equipment prices to be significantly cheaper than near my home in SLC.

I would recommend you find a boot fitter close to home. I have used the same shop for over 30 years. Earl has fit me for 3 pairs of boots, his son Jeremy fit me for my latest pair last year. 3 of the 4 pair needed an additional adjustment several weeks or months after the initial fitting. These adjustments were done at no cost. I will admit that my feet are hard to fit (accessory navicular and significant pronation) and custom fitting with orthotics is a requirement. I have never regretted spending extra money for a proper fitting. Particularly, when an après ski stop at Mooserwirt, Krazy Kanguruh, Luis Keller or Hennu Stall prevents boot removal till well after dark.

I would also recommend you consider getting a nice pair of boots now and continue to rent skis. After you improve some more and have tried more types of skis, you will have a better idea on what type of ski(s) you will want. It is a lot easier and cheaper to transport boots only when flying to you destination. Once there, use a rental shop that has lots of ski choices and lets you change out yours skis for free so you can try multiple models.

PS: I am not a boot fitter or rental shop owner, but I do own bad feet.
 

Sibhusky

Whitefish, MT
Skier
Joined
Oct 26, 2016
Posts
4,806
Location
Whitefish, MT
All we've heard from folks posting here is how they can't find an actual FITTER over there. You won't be saving any money if the boots aren't right. I think if you have a LOT of experience buying boots (mostly from having bought the wrong boots), then maybe you'll be safe on your own. Otherwise, false economy.
 

Cheizz

AKA Gigiski
Skier
Joined
Aug 15, 2016
Posts
1,958
Location
The Netherlands
In most resorts in Europe, they actually have good bootfitters too. Not in every shop though. Any idea yet where you will be skiing?

If you're in a village that has a good shop and fitter and you ski there for a few days, usually you buy the boots including all services. So, after day 1 you can go back and have them fitted that afternoon/evening. The next day you go out again. And if things aren't right yet, you come back on day 2. That service - if you need it for these guys mostly know very well what they're doing the forst time around (people have neede boots for a very ling time in Europe too) is 99% of time included in the price.
 

François Pugh

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
7,617
Location
Great White North (Eastern side currently)
I only see two problems with your plan:
1. You need to find a good recommended boot-fitter in Europe, where you will be travelling to; and,
2. You will have to stay there for a couple of weeks so you can go back and tweak the boot, initially AND after they have packed in some - otherwise it could get expensive going back and forth for additional boot work.
 

AlpsSkidad

Buying more gear
Skier
Joined
May 19, 2018
Posts
759
the prices really are much cheaper on ski gear in Europe. It's not even close. I looked again (at the off season sale gear) while home in the US this Summer, and didn't buy a thing, because I saw the sale prices were still higher than I could source the same gear in Europe.
The issues are what everyone else has pointed out- finding a fitter, later adjustments. I am having trouble finding a decent fitter that is convenient to me. There are fitters out there, just depends on where you are going.
 
Thread Starter
TS
C

ccsasuke

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Mar 15, 2018
Posts
40
I'm an intermediate skier with 15 - 20 ski days, and I'm about to get my first set of gears for this season (been renting before).

I understand that my best option for the boots is to go to a bootfitter, but my question is: I will be traveling to Europe soon and it seems things there are much cheaper there (VAT refund & no state tax). I plan to pick up a pair of skis there, but for the boots, do you think it is safe enough to get a pair of boots fitted there while essentially giving up customer services? How likely is it that I feel something wrong after the first day of skiing when I'm back?

Thank everyone for your suggestions!

A few clarifications on commonly raised questions:

1) I will be travelling to Brussels for a very short business trip, and I will NOT be able to actually ski there. It seems the only ski shop I found there is Galy Sport, which looks legit, and that is the one I plan to go to.
2) Apparently I will not be able to visit the store multiple times to have them work on the boots back and forth; actually I will not be able to even ski in the new boots once before I return to the US.
3) Therefore, my question was how reliable a one-time in-store boot-fitting process was? What is the chance that things could go wrong when I actually ski in the boots? Even with the same listed price in EU and US, buying in EU would be almost 30% cheaper due to VAT refund and state tax, and the savings might be enough to cover the cost of bringing the boots to a local bootfitter for a rework, assuming a in-store bootfitting can do a decent job? Is my math fundamentally wrong in some way?

Thank you!
 
Thread Starter
TS
C

ccsasuke

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Mar 15, 2018
Posts
40
3 of the 4 pair needed an additional adjustment several weeks or months after the initial fitting

Wow that's certainly a high chance that follow-up adjustments are needed..

So for those folks who share the thought that it's better off to find a boot-fitter near home, does anyone have recommendations for central/upper new york? It seems The Ski Company in Syracuse is the only ski shop that Google was able to find within 2-hour range of the small town I live in.
 

Mike Thomas

Whiteroom
Industry Insider
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
1,194
As a new skier, the fit you will get will be pretty generous by most of our standards. That gives a reasonable amount of 'ease' to getting the initial fit pretty good. The downside of a "comfort fit" is that the cushy liner will compress and you will need to rely on tightening the buckles to take up that new-found space. This is mostly fine for a first boot, next time around you will want more precision which requires more... well, precision in the fit dept. For that, you want an expert fitter who you can get back to multiple times.

(You could skip the first comfort boot if you want and move directly to 'good', for that I'd buy near where you ski.)

(... also, what kind of 'math' makes "with the money I save I can pay someone else to fit them" make sense???)
 
Thread Starter
TS
C

ccsasuke

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Mar 15, 2018
Posts
40
As a new skier, the fit you will get will be pretty generous by most of our standards. That gives a reasonable amount of 'ease' to getting the initial fit pretty good. The downside of a "comfort fit" is that the cushy liner will compress and you will need to rely on tightening the buckles to take up that new-found space. This is mostly fine for a first boot, next time around you will want more precision which requires more... well, precision in the fit dept. For that, you want an expert fitter who you can get back to multiple times.

(You could skip the first comfort boot if you want and move directly to 'good', for that I'd buy near where you ski.)

(... also, what kind of 'math' makes "with the money I save I can pay someone else to fit them" make sense???)

Thanks for the comment!

I am indeed thinking of skipping the first comfort boot and buy a pair that I can grow into (the highest quality pair that I can still handle at this moment when the flex is adjusted to the lower end.). I've done some "high performance rentals" and those worked a ton better for me than the crappy rental skis/boots, so I guess I've left the beginner stage and is an intermediate skier learning better edging skills.

The 'math' I had in mind was:
There is a probability P that the event (having to pay someone else to fit them) will happen.
The money saved for buying in EU is probably $150 - $200 depending on the boot price, and having a bootfitter to work on a pair of boots takes say $100.
Then if P < 0.3 - 0.5 then it makes sense economically...
 

markojp

mtn rep for the gear on my feet
Industry Insider
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,604
Location
PNW aka SEA
...do you think it is safe enough to get a pair of boots fitted there while essentially giving up customer services? How likely is it that I feel something wrong after the first day of skiing when I'm back?

If I were passing through Chamonix, I'd look up Jules Mills in a heartbeat. If I needed a wee more space or a small punch, local shops can do that.
 

Mike Thomas

Whiteroom
Industry Insider
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
1,194
Ski boots can last 200 to 300 ski days, so- cost of a day skiing x 250 = value of great boots.

Lets say you 'save" $200. $200 ÷ 200 days = $1 per day saved... for an inferior product. That's bad economics. (but I'm an idiot, and poor, so maybe don't take economic advice from me)
 

LiquidFeet

instructor
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,697
Location
New England
It sounds like you want a "performance" fit. Make sure the bootfitter removes the liner, leaving the plastic shell empty, and has you put your bare foot in there. The bootfitter needs to look at three dimensions of the shell and see how they match your foot: how long the boot is compared to your foot, how tall it is over your foot, and how wide it is. Consider a pencil thickness behind your heel to be a high end performance fit. Two pencil thicknesses may be OK, but not more than that. Width and height gaps should be similarly small. If the bootfitter does not do this shell fit when you ask for a performance fit, leave the shop. He doesn't know what he's doing or he doesn't respect your request.

There should be not much wobble room in any of those three dimensions. Different boot shells are made with different shapes. The bootfitter is there to find the shell that comes closest to matching your foot's anatomy, so a shop with a lot of stock is most likely going to have a shell that comes close to your foot. When the liner is put back in, it will fill the empty space and compress your foot at first, before it gets permanently compressed (packed out) from heat and use. So your boots should feel on the tight side when you buy them... IF you really do want a performance fit. After wearing them for a while they get less tight. "Snug" is the word people usually use for how a performance fit feels after the liner gets packed out a bit.

Any adjustments that happen later, at a price, by a different bootfitter, should be to deal with a boot that's found to be too tight/small in spots, not too big in spots. Your performance fit means the boot is not too big anywhere. The bootfitter can stretch the plastic or grind depressions in the inside of the boot's plastic to make room for bulging bones in your foot, or a big toe that just isn't happy, or ankle bones too high or too low for the built-in ankle-pockets, and so on. Buckles can be moved. Most boots are designed with these adjustments in mind; you can ask about that when you are getting ready to select one.

If you have one foot significantly larger than the other, fit the smaller foot. The bootfitter who makes custom adjustments will enlarge the boot for the larger foot.

If you go with a comfy boot which offers a comfort fit, then when the liner gets compressed, you'll still need bootfitter adjustments so you won't be skiing around with a sloppy boot, which means out-of-control skis. That will involve glueing foam inserts inside the boot to fill the spaces. The cost is not so bad when you need this, but the effectiveness is not so good, because those inserts are squishy and thick. That makes your foot/boot interface function like a loose steering wheel. Another option if you end up with boots too big is to buy an after-market liner whose purpose is to fill the gaps. This can work if the gaps are not so huge, but it is not cheap.

As for flex, it can be softened, but not stiffened. Keep that in mind. Do not buy a soft, soft beginner level boot. It's easy for a bootfitter to soften a boot cuff's flex. There's a temporary way (removing screws) and a permanent way (cutting divots). That can wait until you've skied the boots for a while. A bootfitter cannot stiffen a boot's flex.

Wear very thin socks when you get fitted.

Best of luck in finding what you want.
 
Last edited:
Thread Starter
TS
C

ccsasuke

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Mar 15, 2018
Posts
40
It sounds like you want a "performance" fit. Make sure the bootfitter removes the liner, leaving the plastic shell empty, and has you put your bare foot in there. The bootfitter needs to look at three dimensions of the shell and see how they match your foot: how long the boot is compared to your foot, how tall it is over your foot, and how wide it is. Consider a pencil thickness behind your heel to be a high end performance fit. Two pencil thicknesses may be OK, but not more than that. Width and height gaps should be similarly small. If the bootfitter does not do this shell fit when you ask for a performance fit, leave the shop. He doesn't know what he's doing or he doesn't respect your request.

There should be not much wobble room in any of those three dimensions. Different boot shells are made with different shapes. The bootfitter is there to find the shell that comes closest to matching your foot's anatomy, so a shop with a lot of stock is most likely going to have a shell that comes close to your foot. When the liner is put back in, it will fill the empty space and compress your foot at first, before it gets permanently compressed (packed out) from heat and use. So your boots should feel on the tight side when you buy them... IF you really do want a performance fit. After wearing them for a while they get less tight. "Snug" is the word people usually use for how a performance fit feels after the liner gets packed out a bit.

Any adjustments that happen later, at a price, by a different bootfitter, should be to deal with a boot that's found to be too tight/small in spots, not too big in spots. Your performance fit means the boot is not too big anywhere. The bootfitter can stretch the plastic or grind depressions in the inside of the boot's plastic to make room for bulging bones in your foot, or a big toe that just isn't happy, or ankle bones too high or too low for the built-in ankle-pockets, and so on. Buckles can be moved.

If you have one foot significantly larger than the other, fit the smaller foot. The bootfitter who makes custom adjustments will enlarge the boot for the larger foot.

If you go with a comfy boot which offers a comfort fit, then when the liner gets compressed, you'll still need bootfitter adjustments. That will involve glueing foam inserts inside the boot to fill the spaces. The cost is not so bad when you need this, but the effectiveness is not so good, because those inserts are squishy and thick. That makes your foot/boot interface into a loose steering wheel. Another option if you end up with boots too big is to buy an after-market liner whose purpose is to fill the gaps. This can work if the gaps are not so huge, but it is not cheap.

As for flex, it can be softened, but not stiffened. Keep that in mind. Do not buy a soft, soft beginner level boot. It's easy for a bootfitter to soften a boot cuff's flex. There's a temporary way (removing screws) and a permanent way (cutting divots). That can wait until you've skied the boots for a while. A bootfitter cannot stiffen a boot's flex.

Wear very thin socks when you get fitted.

Best of luck in finding what you want.


Wow a lot of useful information! I will keep these in mind when visiting a bootfitter.

You mentioned "performance fit" vs "comfort fit", so how much comfort does it sacrifice to get a performance fit (or does it at all)?
While I'm certainly looking for a tool that could expose my errors and help me learn better skills, I still want a pair of boots that's comfortable to be in the whole day. Are performance boots (when well fitted) as comfortable as the really soft rental boots or maybe more comfortable since they are more expensive and better built? Or is it inevitable that some comfort is lost when progressing down the spectrum towards the racing end?

Thank you.
 
Last edited:

Rod9301

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Jan 11, 2016
Posts
2,443
Thank everyone for your suggestions!

A few clarifications on commonly raised questions:

1) I will be travelling to Brussels for a very short business trip, and I will NOT be able to actually ski there. It seems the only ski shop I found there is Galy Sport, which looks legit, and that is the one I plan to go to.
2) Apparently I will not be able to visit the store multiple times to have them work on the boots back and forth; actually I will not be able to even ski in the new boots once before I return to the US.
3) Therefore, my question was how reliable a one-time in-store boot-fitting process was? What is the chance that things could go wrong when I actually ski in the boots? Even with the same listed price in EU and US, buying in EU would be almost 30% cheaper due to VAT refund and state tax, and the savings might be enough to cover the cost of bringing the boots to a local bootfitter for a rework, assuming a in-store bootfitting can do a decent job? Is my math fundamentally wrong in some way?

Thank you!
Your math is right
 

LiquidFeet

instructor
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,697
Location
New England
....You mentioned "performance fit" vs "comfort fit", so how much comfort does it sacrifice to get a performance fit (or does it at all)?
While I'm certainly looking for a tool that could expose my errors and help me learn better skills, I still want a pair of boots that's comfortable to be in the whole day. Are performance boots (when well fitted) as comfortable as the really soft rental boots or maybe more comfortable since they are more expensive and better built? Or is it inevitable that some comfort is lost when progressing down the spectrum towards the racing end?

A good performance fit is comfortable. Getting a good performance fit depends on finding a good bootfitter. Or having easy feet to fit. Of course, a bad performance fit can cause problems but usually can be fixed once you find a good bootfitter.

Cushy boots with space inside filled with a thick spongy liner (rental boots) can feel like house shoes. Many people believe this is what comfort in a ski boot should feel like. They are wrong. Too much space allows feet and lower legs to move around in there, which means you can get blisters and bruises from your foot and leg ramming into the boot. When the feet move around, that means nobody is telling the skis what to do. They will wobble. That's dangerous.

A race fit is likely going to be cold. A race fit means race boots, race liner (thin), and one pencil's width all around your foot in that shell fit. It will be difficult to get your feet into and out of the boots. You do not need a race fit.

Comfort has to do with the shape of the boot shell and the shape of your foot, not make and model or bells and whistles on the boot.

Others will disagree and maybe they will post.
 

Sponsor

Staff online

  • Dwight
    Practitioner of skiing, solid and liquid
Top