Bumps for Boomers Clinics - Pros/Cons?

[Coach13]

Liberty is known for having an excellent ski school.

They do, if you know who to ski with. Eve Eastman is. an L3 who leads the women’s clinics. I used to ski with her at RoundTop and can tell you she is excellent.

 

[Coach13]

If "they" (my overlords at work) sent me to DC, I would on this every weekend.

It would be you alone with 3000 of your closest friends! They do have some decent bump runs usually but you have to pick your spots or they are full of folks wedging themselves down the hill.

 

[KingGrump]

Maybe not full day privates, but you can get a private ski week (as someone else pointed out) with a 2 hour lesson each day for $1320 (this season at least). I think that approach is particularly good if you're willing to pick up things to work on during the morning lesson, then actually work on them in the afternoon.

On the private ski week, you can request a specific instructor. You can also bring a friend or 2 or 3. Up to 4 max, usually. Great for splitting the cost.
You can also ask the instructor to work on specific area of your skiing. Including your head game.
Some skiers even request either morning or afternoon sessions.
You can also book two private ski weeks and schedule them for both morning and afternoon.

 

[jack97]

You can learn to ski anywhere, it’s just a matter of how much time and money you want to put into it.

I agree that you can learn to ski (bumps) anywhere. And I agree it takes time but not money. First, it takes more than a good school or a good instructor, equally import is the raw skills and desire of the student. Bumps are something one has to put time and effort in. In addition, you have to go and seek them out. One can drop $800 to $1000 for a mogul ski but that will not make a newbie better at the bumps. I would argue most of these skis are too much for them, they would be better off with a softer ski. The other is traveling to CO to learn how to ski, makes sense if you only ski out west but that just dropping down a lot of cash. Might be an option for some but not for the majority of skiers.

 

[Mike King]

I agree that you can learn to ski (bumps) anywhere. And I agree it takes time but not money. First, it takes more than a good school or a good instructor, equally import is the raw skills and desire of the student. Bumps are something one has to put time and effort in. In addition, you have to go and seek them out. One can drop $800 to $1000 for a mogul ski but that will not make a newbie better at the bumps. I would argue most of these skis are too much for them, they would be better off with a softer ski. The other is traveling to CO to learn how to ski, makes sense if you only ski out west but that just dropping down a lot of cash. Might be an option for some but not for the majority of skiers.

Well, I would argue that taking a lesson in Aspen leads to skills that are as applicable in Colorado as they are in the Northeast. The OP asked about taking the Bumps for Boomers. Perhaps she wishes to be in Aspen. Perhaps she is interested in the product. She didn't ask about a product in the NE. She can learn something in Aspen, enjoy the town, an iconic ski resort, some great restaurants, and the vibe of Aspen. If she then wants to try those skills somewhere else, they will be transferable.

Mike

 

[Dave Marshak]

I agree that you can learn to ski (bumps) anywhere. And I agree it takes time but not money.

It takes money to learn to ski in Aspen. I thought it was pretty silly to suggest Killington or Liberty when the OP was asking about Aspen.

FWIW B4B is mostly about tactics that can be executed by middle age long term office lifers. You can learn those tactics from a book and learn to execute in a few hours on the snow. But it’s still good to go to Aspen.

dm

 

[Nancy Hummel]

It takes money to learn to ski in Aspen. I thought it was pretty silly to suggest Killington or Liberty when the OP was asking about Aspen.

FWIW B4B is mostly about tactics that can be executed by middle age long term office lifers. You can learn those tactics from a book and learn to execute in a few hours on the snow. But it’s still good to go to Aspen.

dm

Not everyone can learn from a book.

And for some, learning is part of the fun. I love learning and improving. I love going to clinics. It is part of the whole experience.

 

[jack97]

It takes money to learn to ski in Aspen. I thought it was pretty silly to suggest Killington or Liberty when the OP was asking about Aspen.

FWIW B4B is mostly about tactics that can be executed by middle age long term office lifers. You can learn those tactics from a book and learn to execute in a few hours on the snow. But it’s still good to go to Aspen.

dm

Well, I would argue that taking a lesson in Aspen leads to skills that are as applicable in Colorado as they are in the Northeast. The OP asked about taking the Bumps for Boomers. Perhaps she wishes to be in Aspen. Perhaps she is interested in the product. She didn't ask about a product in the NE. She can learn something in Aspen, enjoy the town, an iconic ski resort, some great restaurants, and the vibe of Aspen. If she then wants to try those skills somewhere else, they will be transferable.

Mike

OP noted the "price", that leads to cost as a factor. In addition, not all of us can afford to experience that Aspen vibe (minus B4B) at least multiple times a years because you will need to ski bumps more than once year to get good at them.

Edit, IMO, bumps tactics for newbies are best learn in one area. This way, the feel and the approach to the bumps can get re enforced by repetition. Given the way PSIA certs their instructors, a good local instructor will know the proper tactics to use for their own hill.

It is pricey so I'm trying to do some grassroots research.

 

[Suzski]

Thanx all,

I actually have a season pass at Liberty but was only able to sneak up there 3 times this year. I only head that way when I can escape the office during the week. They do have a fun little blue bump run that I was able to play on a bit, but the boarders had it pretty well monopolized and chewed up the last time I was there.

I spent a good bit of time on what passes for bumps at my home mountain (Massanutten). I tried to ski them every time I was out this season, which adds up to about 45 days, so far, but I didn't take a bumps lesson (though a pal was good enough to give me a few "Bumps for Big Babies" tips ). I was busy focusing on other things this year, like my bad turn, which is now my good turn. And so it goes.

Next year is the "Year of the Bump" for me, which is why I wanted to find a camp at the start of the season - so I can practice what I learn all year. The initial appeal of the B4B clinic was its intensity, i.e., 4 days, the low skier/instructor ratio, the time of year (Dec.), and, frankly, the age factor.

Still mulling things over. Thanx again for the great advice/thoughts/alternatives.

 

[LiquidFeet]

@Suzski did you see the videos of B4B campers? Do you like the way they ski?
If so, then go. If not, go for another option.

 

[Suzski]

I did, @LiquidFeet, thanx. I see a group of contemporaries getting down a run w/o stopping every 3 bumps (my habit) and having a good time. I'm not after great style at this point. I just want to learn to have fun in the bumps and get rid of this feeling of trepidation every time I start down a bump run.

I'm going to seek out some mild bumps and maybe take a group lesson at Vail/BC next week and see how it goes.

Cheers, All

 

[Erik Timmerman]

A video of B4B campers, presumably on day 3 or 4 since they are no longer on ski boards:

 

[Dave Marshak]

What I'm seeing is skiers using effective tactics that are appropriate for their skiing skills and athleticism. I'd call that a success.

The youngest boomers are ~55 years old now. They are not going to learn new ski techniques in a week, and they are not going to have the physical strength and flexibility to ski moguls aggressively without a year round physical conditioning program. OTOH learning an easy line through the bumps, one that doesn't require too much absorption/flexion and gets speed control on the backside of the mogul, is a tactic any competent skier can learn. A lot of weekend warriors would be happy with that.

dm

 

[Suzski]

What I'm seeing is skiers using effective tactics that are appropriate for their skiing skills and athleticism. I'd call that a success.

The youngest boomers are ~55 years old now. They are not going to learn new ski techniques in a week, and they are not going to have the physical strength and flexibility to ski moguls aggressively without a year round physical conditioning program. OTOH learning an easy line through the bumps, one that doesn't require too much absorption/flexion and gets speed control on the backside of the mogul, is a tactic any competent skier can learn. A lot of weekend warriors would be happy with that.

Agreed. I'm all about gaining confidence and losing the "yikes" feeling. Once I overcome that, I can work on other aspects of bump skiing that will also serve me off-piste. Luckily, I've maintained a year-round conditioning program my entire life, and (knocking wood) I've never suffered a debilitating injury. Consequently, I'm not worried about having sufficient strength and flexibility if I want to pursue more after learning basic, but reliable tactics.

 

[Seldomski]

@Suzski did you see the videos of B4B campers? Do you like the way they ski?
If so, then go. If not, go for another option.

Would you ask a never-ever skier the same question about a low level skier doing wedge on a green?

I do not think this is the proper mentality... The technique they teach isn't necessarily a dead end. Your skiing does not need to look forever like the video. There is progression beyond those videos. I speculate that the average boomer may not progress past the skiing in the videos shown for a few reasons:
-Physical conditioning, flexibility, and/or lack of fitness
-Deficit in ability to balance on a ski in 3D snow. Some people simply do not have a good sense of balance/proprioception either due to injury/age/disability or lack of training it in off season.
-Lack of practice or improper practice. Trying to do bumps that are too steep to quickly and reverting to bad habits.
-Lack of desire to progress further. Maybe because they are now more competent than their friends in bumps and no one will ski bumps in a way to challenge them.

The B4B method allows skiing of bumps with poor upper/lower body separation. Adding good separation just makes everything better.

Why can't you learn separation while skiing this way in the bumps? Honest question - I'm not an instructor so what am I missing here?

 

[Dave Marshak]

I'm all about gaining confidence and losing the "yikes" feeling. Once I overcome that, I can work on other aspects of bump skiing that will also serve me off-piste.

That's exactly how I learned to ski bumps. Zipper line is mostly in my past now, but I still ski the easy line a lot, and I still enjoy off-piste.

dm

 

[Dave Marshak]

Why can't you learn separation while skiing this way in the bumps? Honest question - I'm not an instructor so what am I missing here?

You need to be on comfortable terrain to learn new techniques, but you also need enough difficulty to make the new technique useful. Easy bumps turn out to be a good place to learn separation because once you learn it, it's immediately obvious how helpful it is.

The rest of your post was spot on.

dm

 

[LiquidFeet]

....
The B4B method allows skiing of bumps with poor upper/lower body separation. Adding good separation just makes everything better.
Why can't you learn separation while skiing this way in the bumps? Honest question - I'm not an instructor so what am I missing here?

It takes a ton of frustrating effort and a ton of time for an intermediate skier with years of practice skiing "square" to learn to ski with separation. That square skiing is deeply embedded. One learns separation on the groomers, not in the bumps. Bumps present the newbie bump skier with too many variables that the skier needs to attend to. Learning separation needs one's full attention.

The four day clinic would never get these folks onto bumps if separation were a promised part of the progression. The B4B program can be an initial introduction to skiing bumps. Increasing skills can come later. The program does successfully get skiers into bumps which is what it is selling.

 

[LiquidFeet]

You need to be on comfortable terrain to learn new techniques, but you also need enough difficulty to make the new technique useful. Easy bumps turn out to be a good place to learn separation because once you learn it, it's immediately obvious how helpful it is.

The rest of your post was spot on.

dm

@Dave Marshak, have you taught people who ski square and who have been doing that for years to ski with separation in bumps when bump skiing was also new to them? If so, I'm seriously interested. Success level is important, because we're talking about a popular program that teaches people in groups and charges big bucks based on their success rate.

In other words, do you have experience teaching groups of non-bump skiers who ski square to ski with separation in their first attempts skiing bumps? How long does it take you to get them skiing those bumps with separation, and how large are your groups?

You see where I'm coming from here. If you know how to do this, I bet B4B might want to hire you to show them how to do it.

 

[dbostedo]

It takes a ton of frustrating effort and a ton of time for an intermediate skier with years of practice skiing "square" to learn to ski with separation. That square skiing is deeply embedded. One learns separation on the groomers, not in the bumps. Bumps present the newbie bump skier with too many variables that the skier needs to attend to. Separation needs one's full attention.

Yep - I can relate to that. This is season 4 since I started taking lessons and even beginning to know what separation means, after skiing (occassionally) for 20+ years. And I just had my first bump lessons this year, and I'd say last year was the first season I had any comfort even in easy bumps.