Bumps for Boomers Clinics - Pros/Cons?

[James]

I'm happy to drop it. It is related, though. The OP asked about BFB. Bumps for Boomers seems to be one of the primary sources of the anti-zipper line movement we hear echoed so often. Here's what they have on their website that is completely out of the norm for mogul instruction:

We can safely say that the Zipper Line mogul skiing tactic is not appropriate, under any circumstance, for Boomers or conservative recreational skiers because of the need for strong athleticism and ultra-fast reflexes. It does not pass the “smart, sane and intelligent way to ski moguls” test. Consequently, we will eliminate the Zipper Line from our list of considered Smart Tactic options and, as a result, we will not include either illustrations or videos of the Zipper Line route.
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That's bunk, and as far out of the mainstream as teaching on 90cm skiboards. I think it is important the OP is aware of how unconventional their approach is regardless of how she wishes to ski bumps.

That statement you quoted is exactly why people go there. Nothing bunk about it. Other than all "Boomers". But they may have defined that term in their own way. I'm not going to research it. There's no argument against zipperline is high energy. It just is.
We used to teach on 123cm carvers. Not bumps.

 

[Suzski]

I don't have any experience with the "Bumps for Boomers" camps. Given the choice, I'd sure prefer to learn bump skiing on nice soft round-ish lines in Aspen as opposed to whatever random conditions New England happens to be serving up the weekend of camp. New England bump skiing is often for masochists.

Thanx @ksampson3 and @Seldomski (and all). That is very helpful info.

Thanx too, @Kevin F . BTW, I ski the mid-Atlantic. Ice is my comfort zone.

 

[tball]

BTW, I ski the mid-Atlantic.

Is there anywhere nearby you might join an adult seasonal lesson program that has bumps?

I've heard folks talk about how a weekly program has helped their skiing and is much more affordable than typical lessons. You get more instruction and time to absorb and practice over time. Also, a lot of learning to ski bumps is following someone of better ability which programs like that make possible when it might not be otherwise.

As examples, Killington has its 4241' Club:
https://www.killington.com/plan-your-trip/lessons-rentals/adult-programs/adult-seasonal-programs

And, Copper has the "Over the Hill Gang":
https://www.coppercolorado.com/plan-your-trip/lessons-rentals/lessons/adult-seasonal-programs

@James and @Josh Matta at some point I'll start a thread "Slow Zipperline Bump Skiing" where we can discuss and post videos, including your nice example Josh!

 

[Josh Matta]

I see my skiing as rounded in the fall line, when people say Zipper line I think(As many do) that its has some sideways component to it. but thanks for the props man.

 

[LiquidFeet]

I suspect the 90cm skis are there to eliminate the tips getting displaced by the bump. Concentrating on line. I don't think this is for "aspiring bump skiers" but people who aspire to ski some bumps.

The reason for the ski boards is to get aft skiers used to skiing centered. After skiing these for a couple of days, skiers are allowed to get back on their own skis, but if those are long they are encouraged to rent shortish skis. The idea is that the skiers will have learned to sense and enjoy the advantages of skiing centered instead of aft so that they will shed their old aft habits when they get back on their longer skis.

I'm trying to find the sources of my information but alas I did not keep the web addresses.

 

[LiquidFeet]

A detailed description of the Bumps for Boomers camp by a happy participant:
https://www.aspentimes.com/news/weekly/aspen-times-weekly-skiing-for-life/

A video of B4B campers, presumably on day 3 or 4 since they are no longer on ski boards:

I think this video below is from an advanced clinic, on a powder day. From the Bumps for Boomers site:
The MBA (Master Of Bumps Academy) is a 3-Day Mogul Skiing Clinic, limited to graduates of our BUMPS FOR BOOMERS 4-Day mogul skiing clinic, who are looking to take the next step in improving their mogul skiing and powder skiing skills on a wider variety of more challenging terrain. (https://www.bumpsforboomers.com/ski-lessons/master-of-bumps-clinic/)

 

[LiquidFeet]

Here's a Bumps for Boomers lesson plan for the 4 day camp:
https://www.bumpsforboomers.com/why-bumps-for-boomers/on-snow-lesson-plan/

Scroll through this technique section for more on the mechanics they teach:
https://www.bumpsforboomers.com/mog...l-skiing-technique-introduction/new-approach/

 

[Nancy Hummel]

I looked at the Killington site this morning (thank you!), but I don't know if the clinics are offered in the early season (i.e., December). The only date on the website is in March, but it may be that they've just removed the past dates. That said, their clinics are only 2 days and I was hoping for something longer. I suppose I could supplement the clinic with a private the day after.

I'm not looking to become a zipper line bump skier. Ain't gonna happen at age 60. I simply want to learn to ski them well enough to dispel the intimidation I often feel skiing ungroomed blacks and side-country.

I've done Ski Week at Taos 3 times and it was enormously helpful, but they always place me in the highest group based on a "ski-off" on a groomed run. Inevitably, I'm the worst bump skier in the group and I get doubly nervous b/c I feel I'm holding the others back. They are very accommodating if a skier wants to move to a "lower" group. However, the one time I did that I ended up with a group that didn't want to do bumps until the end of the week, i.e., one day. We did prep on groomers which is all to the good, but I can do pivot slips till I'm blue in the face here at home. To compensate I did a 3-hour private one afternoon and that was great, but I can't afford to do that all week even w/the reasonable prices at Taos.

Good thing I have until next season to think about/research this!

BTW, I am going to Beaver Creek/Vail in a week. Maybe I could sneak in a bump lesson there if they do "remedial" group or semi-private bumps.

The key to learning to ski bumps is getting a good instructor who clicks with you. Sadly, at Vail/Beaver Creek during spring break, you are at the mercy of whomever is assigned. Lots of instructors can ski bumps but have no idea how to teach bumps. The best bump lessons I have had are from a Swiss guy at Snowmass, Bob Barnes and my husband, who is a emeritus RM examiner.

*disclaimer. My bump skiing leaves much to be desired but I now have the skills and the mental attitude to ski them. I am now at the point where I need lots of mileage and that is my mission this year.

 

[ksampson3]

A detailed description of the Bumps for Boomers camp by a happy participant:
https://www.aspentimes.com/news/weekly/aspen-times-weekly-skiing-for-life/

Heh heh. I'm the second red coat from the right in that picture. I had forgotten about that article. Some guy kept asking me all of these questions at lunch one day, like where do I live and what my job was. I thought he was just some Nosey Parker until one of the instructors told me that he was writing an article about the class.

 

[jack97]

I've done Ski Week at Taos 3 times and it was enormously helpful, but they always place me in the highest group based on a "ski-off" on a groomed run. Inevitably, I'm the worst bump skier in the group and I get doubly nervous b/c I feel I'm holding the others back.

I'm a firm believer that what you do in the flats, you will bring to the bumps, the good as well as the bad. You have been placed in the highest group three time based on groomed "ski off", this tells me that they have accessed you (three times) to have the fundamental skills to take on the bumps with this group. So perhaps its more of a tactics and how to apply the skills from the flats to the bumps. IMO, privates or a high level group lesson geared toward bumps would be a better option.

....I ski the mid-Atlantic. Ice is my comfort zone.....

Which brings up the next point, if this is what you mostly ski, then going to Aspen to ski the bumps would be in hero snow conditions. In my experience, learning how to hero snow bumps sometimes doesn't translate well to hard pack to hard granular bumps. Unless you want to go west to ski bumps as well and never want to touch that stuff in the east.

 

[James]

Surely @Tricia remembers Bob Barnes skiing behind and yelling at her to "pole" in the bumps.

The reason for the ski boards is to get aft skiers used to skiing centered. After skiing these for a couple of days,

I'll buy that. I forgot who were talking about with all the zipper nonsense.
Carry on...

Edit: wait...

So where is the fun in sliding from bump to bump? It just surviving them?

If you can't ski bumps, what's wrong with groomers, or steeps that are smooth.

I feel that the whole reason for the bfb camps is to make money by misleading people that sliding from bump to bump is fun.

I don't know. People have fun playing cards, bird watching, and doing all sorts of weird things. Even jogging is "fun" for some.

I fail to see how avoiding bumps and skiing groomers is somehow "better" than people learning to make it through a bump field.
Hey, maybe they'll slide bumps, learn that, then move on. One day they'll get so jacked up on Red Bull they start trying to go fast in bumps. Then they're going to Patrick Deneen camps.

The upshot seems to be to avoid lots of absorption. Or rapid absorption. Because absorption takes energy and requires something from the knees and legs.

 

[Rod9301]

That statement you quoted is exactly why people go there. Nothing bunk about it. Other than all "Boomers". But they may have defined that term in their own way. I'm not going to research it. There's no argument against zipperline is high energy. It just is.
We used to teach on 123cm carvers. Not bumps.

So where is the fun in sliding from bump to bump? Or just surviving them?

If you can't ski bumps, what's wrong with groomers, or steeps that are smooth.

I feel that the whole reason for the bfb camps is to make money by misleading people that sliding from bump to bump is fun.

 

[KevinF]

So where is the fun in sliding from bump to bump? Or just surviving them?

If you can't ski bumps, what's wrong with groomers, or steeps that are smooth.

I feel that the whole reason for the bfb camps is to make money by misleading people that sliding from bump to bump is fun.

There was a point in every skiers development where the bunny hill was an obstacle to survive.

Many people I know think skiing itself is a money making enterprise based on misleading people to believe that being cold and sliding around is somehow “fun”.

 

[Seldomski]

Lots of instructors can ski bumps but have no idea how to teach bumps.

This has been my experience as well. A student can have the fundamentals to ski the bumps. But the brain can get in the way. Bumps are 'new' and somehow totally different from a flat groomed slope.

I've had multiple lessons where the advice in bumps was basically 'just do it.' Then the instructor zips down the mountain. I don't think many instructors known how to make a bump run easy enough for bump novices. It is very easy to overterrain students in what appear to be easy bumps because there are so many line choices to make. The instructor takes the easy line. The student makes mistakes and ends up on more difficult lines.

This program and others like it are aimed at getting students to make parallel drifted turns in bumps at low speed. Sounds simple, but it's not. The videos of students skiing are not very dynamic or impressive, but you have to start somewhere. Once you get someone to cruise down with parallel turns through a bump field, they can start making choices to be more direct, turn more, or make it more dynamic. But they need that basic skill first.

 

[bbinder]

So where is the fun in sliding from bump to bump? Or just surviving them?

If you can't ski bumps, what's wrong with groomers, or steeps that are smooth.

I feel that the whole reason for the bfb camps is to make money by misleading people that sliding from bump to bump is fun.

I seem to have a lot of fun sliding from bump to bump. And I think I do more than just survive.

 

[Nancy Hummel]

So where is the fun in sliding from bump to bump? Or just surviving them?

If you can't ski bumps, what's wrong with groomers, or steeps that are smooth.

I feel that the whole reason for the bfb camps is to make money by misleading people that sliding from bump to bump is fun.

Many people want to ski bumps and for many of us who started skiing as adults, there needs to be a starting point. When you get comfortable getting down a bump run, you have the opportunity to expand your skills.

Skiing bumps opens up the mountain and many people want that.

 

[Beartown]

I am also in that Aspen Times article cited above (green jacket). Here's more photos from the print edition.

 

[LiquidFeet]

You guys who attended a B4B camp, I'm wondering something. Did the program in any way encourage upper-body-lower-body-separation?

I have an interest in figuring out different ways to teach bump skiing. From the writings available online from Joe Nevin about the camps, I get the idea that he has structured the B4B program to teach bump skiing without having to require participants ski with separation.

Am I right? It's been my experience that teaching seasoned middle-aged skiers who do not have separation to turn their legs without turning their upper bodies takes a ton of time and dedication. That would be time that this 4-day camp does not have if it's going to get people onto black bumps before the camp is over.

 

[Josh Matta]

So where is the fun in sliding from bump to bump? Or just surviving them?

If you can't ski bumps, what's wrong with groomers, or steeps that are smooth.

I feel that the whole reason for the bfb camps is to make money by misleading people that sliding from bump to bump is fun.

its pretty hard to define whats fun for someone else.

 

[Josh Matta]

You guys who attended a B4B camp, I'm wondering something. Did the program in any way encourage upper-body-lower-body-separation?

I have an interest in figuring out different ways to teach bump skiing. From the writings available online from Joe Nevin about the camps, I get the idea that he has structured the B4B program to teach bump skiing without having to require participants ski with separation. Am I right? It's been my experience that teaching middle-aged skiers to turn their legs without turning their upper bodies takes a ton of time and dedication, time that this 4-day camp does not have if it's going to get people onto black bumps before the camp is over.

As long as the upper body didnt lead and just followed shouldnt be a problem especially on soft snow.