Suzski

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I'm planning ahead for next season and am considering the BFB clinic in Aspen. Just curious whether anyone has done this clinic and what your impressions are. It is pricey so I'm trying to do some grassroots research.

Many thanx in advance.
 

Beartown

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I've been twice. the first time through changed my approach to skiing entirely. I was a longtime skier who just couldn't get through the bumps, and really had trouble skiing off piste. B4B was some of the best money I ever spent. I actually did it at age 37 because I liked the low-pressure, more "kid-gloves" approach to bumps. I learned their approach to bumps, but also learned a lot about skiing off-piste and steeps in general. I learned about body position, drifting, and learned a ton of useful drills that made me a much better and more confident skier. Since my first time through, I now spend about 75% of my time off piste on blacks and double blacks all over a variety of pretty tough mountains. I don't really ski bumps in the B4B style at this point, but I still use their fundamentals every day I ski. Great course.
 

mister moose

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Do you want to learn how to ski bumps, or do you want to go out west and ski Aspen? Because $1,600 bux goes a long way a lot closer to home, and PS, we have bumps here too. Until Memorial Day.
 

Beartown

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Do you want to learn how to ski bumps, or do you want to go out west and ski Aspen? Because $1,600 bux goes a long way a lot closer to home, and PS, we have bumps here too. Until Memorial Day.
This is a fair point, because you will not really get to experience "skiing Aspen" in B4B. You will only ski Ajax, so no Snowmass/Highlands/Buttermilk for you. And you will only ski a very small portion of Ajax over and over again (upper mountain, primarily off Ajax Express, maybe a little Ruthies/FIS). Half of the days you will be on 90 cm skiboards which do not encourage exploring. All that said, I got a ton out of it and definitely recommend it.
 

Chris V.

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I can't speak for individual programs, but will say that what a lot of people who say they need to learn to ski bumps really need is to make solid short turns, particularly on steeper terrain.
 

jack97

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mdf

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This is a fair point, because you will not really get to experience "skiing Aspen" in B4B. You will only ski Ajax, so no Snowmass/Highlands/Buttermilk for you. And you will only ski a very small portion of Ajax over and over again (upper mountain, primarily off Ajax Express, maybe a little Ruthies/FIS). Half of the days you will be on 90 cm skiboards which do not encourage exploring. All that said, I got a ton out of it and definitely recommend it.
Depending on whether the OP's schedule and physical conditioning can support it, the obvious solution is to tack on a couple of free-skiing days after the camp. Maximizes the payoff for airfare and travel days.
 
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Suzski

Suzski

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Do you want to learn how to ski bumps, or do you want to go out west and ski Aspen? Because $1,600 bux goes a long way a lot closer to home, and PS, we have bumps here too. Until Memorial Day.
I'm interested in learning bumps. I've skied Aspen and environs many times so exploration is not the goal. If I do B4B I would stay on a couple of days afterwards anyway. The appeal of B4B is; (i) it is 4 days instead of 2, (ii) it is geared, though not restricted, to folks my age (60), (iii) they have a unique approach, and (iv) they offer December dates.

That said, I will also look at the Killington camps. I could combine the 2-day camp w/a private lesson or two. They only have the remaining 2019 date (next weekend) listed, however, so I don't know how early in the season they actually begin. Do you happen to know, @mister moose?
 

KingGrump

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Wow, $1,700 for 4 days.
You can get a private ski week fir that at Taos.
 

Nancy Hummel

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If you are really interested in learning bumps, I would suggest a couple of days with Bob Barnes who teaches at Highlands.

Bump skiing is a combination of physical and mental issues (for me, more mental). I have found that I need instruction that is specific to me.

I have not watched the Bump for Boomers in action so this is not a dig at them but I think if you are a reasonably competent skier but are having issues with bumps, a private may be a better way to address.
 

tball

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Half of the days you will be on 90 cm skiboards
That's weird.

That, plus the anti-zipper line propaganda they publish would have me looking elsewhere. They are doing a disservice to aspiring bump skiers everywhere with that off-base messaging.

How about the camps at Killington from Olympic gold medalist and world champion mogul skier, Donna Weinbrecht:
https://www.killington.com/plan-your-trip/lessons-rentals/adult-programs/camps

She has women's specific camps, too.
 

James

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That's weird.

That, plus the anti-zipper line propaganda they publish would have me looking elsewhere. They are doing a disservice to aspiring bump skiers everywhere with that off-base messaging.

How about the camps at Killington from Olympic gold medalist and world champion mogul skier, Donna Weinbrecht:
https://www.killington.com/plan-your-trip/lessons-rentals/adult-programs/camps

She has women's specific camps, too.
I suspect the 90cm skis are there to eliminate the tips getting displaced by the bump. Concentrating on line. I don't think this is for "aspiring bump skiers" but people who aspire to ski some bumps.

I can't imagine why you would want to do it.
 
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Suzski

Suzski

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How about the camps at Killington from Olympic gold medalist and world champion mogul skier, Donna Weinbrecht:
https://www.killington.com/plan-your-trip/lessons-rentals/adult-programs/camps
.
I looked at the Killington site this morning (thank you!), but I don't know if the clinics are offered in the early season (i.e., December). The only date on the website is in March, but it may be that they've just removed the past dates. That said, their clinics are only 2 days and I was hoping for something longer. I suppose I could supplement the clinic with a private the day after.

I'm not looking to become a zipper line bump skier. Ain't gonna happen at age 60. I simply want to learn to ski them well enough to dispel the intimidation I often feel skiing ungroomed blacks and side-country.

I've done Ski Week at Taos 3 times and it was enormously helpful, but they always place me in the highest group based on a "ski-off" on a groomed run. Inevitably, I'm the worst bump skier in the group and I get doubly nervous b/c I feel I'm holding the others back. They are very accommodating if a skier wants to move to a "lower" group. However, the one time I did that I ended up with a group that didn't want to do bumps until the end of the week, i.e., one day. We did prep on groomers which is all to the good, but I can do pivot slips till I'm blue in the face here at home. To compensate I did a 3-hour private one afternoon and that was great, but I can't afford to do that all week even w/the reasonable prices at Taos.

Good thing I have until next season to think about/research this!

BTW, I am going to Beaver Creek/Vail in a week. Maybe I could sneak in a bump lesson there if they do "remedial" group or semi-private bumps.
 

ksampson3

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From a post of mine a couple of years ago...
(Here's the link to the thread
https://www.pugski.com/threads/bumps-for-boomers-technique-summary-and-video.4577/ )

"I think that a lot of you are missing the point of this clinic. I took it two years ago and it was excellent. When we got there, they separated people into two groups. Basically it was a group of us in our fifties and another group in their sixties/seventies. A lot of the folks that took the class weren't the most athletic folks, so the idea of teaching them a way to negotiate the bumps without torching their legs for the day was pretty appealing. The student to instructor ratio was really low; either 3:1 or 2:1 depending if Joe spent the morning/afternoon with your class. As noted above, one of the main techniques that was taught was the pivot slip - or as the instructors called it "drift". The idea was that you're not using a ton of energy bending your knees all of the time. You "drift" from bump to bump. This was really appealing if you have knee issues or typically aren't in the best shape. Not everyone is a hyper fit, master skier. A lot of other ground was covered in the clinic, not just bumps. I learned a lot about turn initiation, ankle flexion, looking where you are going to plan for the next turn, etc. Yeah, I know, all of this stuff is covered in "regular" ski lessons. Putting it all together with the bumps instruction really made it come together. Just my opinion.
Oh yeah, if you get Alan Bush as your instructor, you hit the jackpot."

And as far as Killington bumps vs Aspen bumps? Do you want to ski rock hard, icy moguls or soft, high altitude West Coast moguls. Something else to think about.
 

Seldomski

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From a post of mine a couple of years ago...
(Here's the link to the thread
https://www.pugski.com/threads/bumps-for-boomers-technique-summary-and-video.4577/ )

"I think that a lot of you are missing the point of this clinic. I took it two years ago and it was excellent. When we got there, they separated people into two groups. Basically it was a group of us in our fifties and another group in their sixties/seventies. A lot of the folks that took the class weren't the most athletic folks, so the idea of teaching them a way to negotiate the bumps without torching their legs for the day was pretty appealing. The student to instructor ratio was really low; either 3:1 or 2:1 depending if Joe spent the morning/afternoon with your class. As noted above, one of the main techniques that was taught was the pivot slip - or as the instructors called it "drift". The idea was that you're not using a ton of energy bending your knees all of the time. You "drift" from bump to bump. This was really appealing if you have knee issues or typically aren't in the best shape. Not everyone is a hyper fit, master skier. A lot of other ground was covered in the clinic, not just bumps. I learned a lot about turn initiation, ankle flexion, looking where you are going to plan for the next turn, etc. Yeah, I know, all of this stuff is covered in "regular" ski lessons. Putting it all together with the bumps instruction really made it come together. Just my opinion.
Oh yeah, if you get Alan Bush as your instructor, you hit the jackpot."

And as far as Killington bumps vs Aspen bumps? Do you want to ski rock hard, icy moguls or soft, high altitude West Coast moguls. Something else to think about.
This is a great summary. I have not done the camp! But I have done some lessons with the Clendenin method, and on paper, they appear to be very similar. See some thoughts on that here:

https://www.pugski.com/threads/clendenin-method-camps.8864/page-3

Will echo that benefits are:
1) Snow/location. The bumps at Aspen are very soft. They result from a combo of high altitude, frequent snowfall, and low skier traffic. It is hard to duplicate this in other places so consistently year after year. So much of the camp benefit is location!
2) This is a different approach, though it is consistent with PSIA instruction. It is a coherent curriculum over multiple days for people who have various mental and/or physical issues with bumps. I have heard from instructors and people on this board that you just need to 'nail short turns' to do bumps. This is true, but really only part of the puzzle.

This program and Clendenin get you in the bumps with a drifted turn quickly. They give you a foundation to start skiing in the bumps. A big part of bump skiing is simply learning to relax and remain in control. Another part is learning to read bumps. You can't learn to read them without going in there and trying them out. This type of instruction gets you there. Few years later of using their approach, you can go to the next level. It's not a limiting program - what you learn won't make things worse later.

Edit to add one more thing...
This camp and Clendenin are very pricey. But if you can afford it, I do think it is worth it. If you have taken many lessons already and have had limited success in bumps, I think this could be another approach that will resonate with you.
 

KevinF

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So I did the Killington weekend bump camp many many years ago when I probably had no real business trying to ski bumps anyway due to other technique flaws.

I seem to remember them teaching what is often described as the "green" line. It worked in the sense that by the end of camp I was able to negotiate a bump run instead of being just hopelessly stuck in one.

It was through the now-defunct ESA's that I learned how to first ski and then learned how to ski bumps. "It's not that you can't ski bumps, it's that you can't ski..." yadda yadda yadda.

I don't have any experience with the "Bumps for Boomers" camps. Given the choice, I'd sure prefer to learn bump skiing on nice soft round-ish lines in Aspen as opposed to whatever random conditions New England happens to be serving up the weekend of camp. New England bump skiing is often for masochists.
 

tball

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Folks, once again, let's PLEASE don't take one more thread down with all this stuff about zipper-line. It gets old. @Suzski 's OP is obviously completely unrelated. Let those of you who can, help with her request, and let's keep it at that. Thanks.
I'm happy to drop it. It is related, though. The OP asked about BFB. Bumps for Boomers seems to be one of the primary sources of the anti-zipper line movement we hear echoed so often. Here's what they have on their website that is completely out of the norm for mogul instruction:

We can safely say that the Zipper Line mogul skiing tactic is not appropriate, under any circumstance, for Boomers or conservative recreational skiers because of the need for strong athleticism and ultra-fast reflexes. It does not pass the “smart, sane and intelligent way to ski moguls” test. Consequently, we will eliminate the Zipper Line from our list of considered Smart Tactic options and, as a result, we will not include either illustrations or videos of the Zipper Line route.
That's bunk, and as far out of the mainstream as teaching on 90cm skiboards. I think it is important the OP is aware of how unconventional their approach is regardless of how she wishes to ski bumps.
 

Josh Matta

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got some video of slow zipper lining?
 
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