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karlo

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If you didn’t notice the difference between “two sticks”, and simulating poling, (in the air?) How would you feel any cue?
Yes, flicking them in the air. If too short, I guess I would miss them when skating or when stepping uphill.
 

geepers

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I’ll be on snow tomorrow. What’s the cue I should use to determine what shorter length is suitable? I’ve skied with a broken variable length pole before, collapsing both to achieve symmetry. I ended up holding just two sticks and just flicking my wrist to simulate poling. That was pretty short, but it worked; hardly noticed a difference.

Karlo - some folk suggested shorter poles for me last year after i posted some vid. I was on 125 length so tried a spare pair of 120s and even my wife' 110s. The 110s felt way too short and the 120s about right so using those.

The PP adjustables would be probably be a better bet however I kind of like to get my hands on things before buying.
 

karlo

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I was on 125 length so tried a spare pair of 120s

I used my touring poles today, comparing 115 to my normal 120. I didn’t feel a difference. But, that was skiing at the learning zone, served by a magic carpet. Wind shut down everything else. Next opportunity will be in a week and a half, offpiste and backcountry. Unfortunately, 115 is the shortest my poles will go.
 

KingGrump

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If you ski a lot of bumps, your elbow will let you know what is the correct length for you specific style.
 

Mike King

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@karlo when you are working on your short radius dynamic turns, you should be able to tell if the pole is too long. Since you will be in a more compact position at edge change, notice if the pole is causing your hand to rise at the plant to a position nearing your shoulder or if you are having to tilt the pole laterally to have a proper height -- those are cues the poles are too long. I found that I had to shorten my poles by a couple of inches once I adjusted my default stance to be more flexed and ready to extend or retract as the situation required. I also find I ski medium radius performance turns with a shorter pole length than bumps. Teaching, or working predominantly on basic parallel turns has longer poles. Adjustable poles are really useful.

Mike
 

karlo

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if you are having to tilt the pole laterally to have a proper height
Yes! I tilt the poles. But, that also feels more natural to me when I flick them. If I have them upright, then the wrist motion feels like something that might give me carpal tunnel syndrome.
I’ll have to pay more attention to how I pole to better describe what I do
 

KingGrump

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Ok, I'll bite. How?

Your elbow will hurt from the pole plant impacts if they are too long. If you normally ski on the groomers and your poles are sized for cruising. They are usually at least 2" too long for even a relaxed line in the bumps.
 

James

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Ok, I'll bite. How?
Surely you’ve seen the article by Australia’s Prince of Skiing.
This horrible graphic illustrates the point. Your usual “standing, hold underneath basket, elbow at right angle”- that’s more like the left diagram. (Though not many ski bolt upright) If you ski with any angles, you’re not upright. In the bumps you’re pretty compact at times and the ground is coming up too.
A4FAF8DD-A84A-494C-8EC4-96EC9DD4C9BA.jpeg

“ I found that after skiing for years with a 120cm [47.3”] pole, it took me a little while to adjust and feel natural when playing around with different pole lengths. Now that I have found the right height for me, it allows me to pole plant with the most efficiency while maintaining a relaxed and natural upper body position when I ski.”

“I am 180cm [5’11”] tall and I am currently skiing with my pole set to 110cm [43.3”] for high end skiing on and off piste, 105cm [41.3”]for moguls and 118 [46.5”] for low end demos when teaching.”
-Paul Lorenz

That’s short! But look how he skis. He’s very low most of the time.
I’m the same height and have settled on 45”(114cm). I def could go shorter for moguls. I started several years ago at 49” (124.5cm)

I’ve noticed I almost never jam my wrist anymore. In the past, even on non moguls, hard snow, I’d sometimes get a sharp shot to the wrist that would hurt for days.

 
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geepers

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@karlo - went to variable length poles for last month of season. Decided to change after accidentally picking up my wife's 110cm poles one morning. The funny thing was my wife hadn't noticed she was on unusual length poles when she joined at coffee break. 110 was better for shorts on steep pitches but a bit too short.

Your elbow will hurt from the pole plant impacts if they are too long. If you normally ski on the groomers and your poles are sized for cruising. They are usually at least 2" too long for even a relaxed line in the bumps.

Suspect it's painful with poles too short or too long. Certainly had sore elbows after getting into pole juggling (see above) but it settled down somewhat with more correct length.

That’s short! But look how he skis. He’s very low most of the time.
I’m the same height and have settled on 45”(114cm). I def could go shorter for moguls. I started several years ago at 49” (124.5cm)

Seems around 115 works best for me. Same height. Perhaps a little shorter for shorts on a really steep pitch (113) and a little longer for bumps (118) to encourage more upright upper body (less breaking at the waist).
 

karlo

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The PP adjustables would be probably be a better bet however I kind of like to get my hands on things before buying.
“...I am currently skiing with my pole set to ...”
-Paul Lorenz (of PP)

I skied with an instructor last month at Telluride who's a friend of Paul Lorenz. She teaches at the school where he is the Director. She was skiing with a pair of the adjustable poles from PP. Really nice. Light weight like a touring pole. But, unlike a touring pole, they have alpine grips and a small basket.
 

Tim Hodgson

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To all my fellow PSIA certified instructors: Can't we all agree that Takao demos athletic and exaggerated movements and teaches "active" edge, pressure, and rotation movements rather than merely "managing" edge, pressure and rotation forces supplied by gravity, terrain and centrifugal forces?


I get it that in his personal skiing, he is more efficiently managing forces rather than creating them. But not in his Bump Lesson. Can't we agree?

So, maybe when I teach Beginners and Intermediates to "squish it (the cuff) and twist it (the ski)" I have not doomed them to a life of intermediate skiing?
 

LiquidFeet

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Karlo, PSIA carefully chooses its words to discourage skiers from using "pressure" as a verb, both in words and in action. This is a good thing because its intention is to stop skiers from pressing/pushing on the skis to generate pressure beyond what's there from gravity, momentum, turning, and so on.

But I don't think the writers choose passive words in the published resources to discourage actively edging the skis, actively rotating the legs/feet/skis, or actively maintaining balance either fore/aft or laterally. There are places where someone in PSIA talks about the differences between active and passive flexion and extension in the bumps, but both are presented as appropriate given varying contexts. Word choice is such a creative act.

Here's a list of the five fundamentals. "Control" is an active verb, as is "Regulate."
  • Control the relationship of the Center of Mass to the base of support to direct pressure along the length of the skis
  • Control pressure from ski to ski and direct pressure toward the outside ski
  • Control edge angles through a combination of inclination and angulation
  • Control the skis rotation (turning, pivoting, steering) with leg rotation, separate from the upper body
  • Regulate the magnitude of pressure created through ski/snow interaction.
 
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Mike King

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I skied with an instructor last month at Telluride who's a friend of Paul Lorenz. She teaches at the school where he is the Director. She was skiing with a pair of the adjustable poles from PP. Really nice. Light weight like a touring pole. But, unlike a touring pole, they have alpine grips and a small basket.
I skied all season with my touring poles -- LEKI carbon adjustable with the S trigger. For half the season, I had the big baskets, but finally took the small baskets that came with them and exchanged. I've found I go much much shorter -- probably around 110, and I'm 5'11".
 

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