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Boot Question

Pequenita

Making fresh tracks
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A good bootfitter.

Now this must be a record for ANY forum. In the first page there was effectively universal agreement.

Time to lock this thread because nothing more needs to be said. ;)

:beercheer:

Well, now that he's identified where he is located, recommendations for where he can find a bootfitter would be helpful.
 

Doug Briggs

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Well, now that he's identified where he is located, recommendations for where he can find a bootfitter would be helpful.

Agreed. But that's another thread altogether. :)
 

Kneale Brownson

Making fresh tracks forever on the other side
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Surefoot is a chain, not a bootfitter.
(They all use the same "mass market" recipe, I've been told repeatedly.) From personal experience, they are a "no" here in Colo.

I'm in my fourth pair of Surefoot's foamed boots over the last 20-odd years, all done at either Snowmass or Breckenridge. Took a break two sets ago to use a noted Breckenridge fitter and switched back after one unimpressive season. YMMV, but how can you get a more custom fit than foaming? I've been using custom footbeds since the 1970s and find theirs to be as good as any others I've had.
 

Pat AKA mustski

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San Diego, Mammoth, Big Bear. Do you know one around the area?


Thanks all for the answers.

I live in Big Bear - there is no one up here that I trust.

Kevin Hepburn at Footloose is my guy.
Second on Kevin Hepburn. He's been at Footloose for a very long time and is an excellent fitter.
 

cjm

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I agree with the recommendations for Kevin Hepburn. I was recently in Mammoth and needed some work done on my boots. Kevin did a great job. He is also a wealth of knowledge.

Return the boots you bought and buy your boots from someone like Kevin at Footloose. They will get you in the best boot for you and then do the necessary punching, grinding and foot-bed work to get the boot tuned to your foot. If you buy the boot through a cheaper outlet, then go to get the work done by a boot fitter you will pay a considerable amount for fitting all of which would have been included had you bought the boot from the fitter in the fist place.
 

ski otter 2

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I guess I (and we) could be wrong. Not the first time. But.... From what I understand (and have been told repeatedly by folks in the Industry, including bootfitters), the original Surefoot guy (forgot his name and location) was a bootfitter with ambition: he wanted to franchise or set up a chain of custom fit ski boot shops. His problem was that even his one business bottle-necked with him (the skilled fitter): other folks he hired and trained over years usually quit if and when they gained the experience and knowledge to go out on their own, or work elsewhere.

As I understand it, what the original guy wanted was a way to duplicate and franchise what he did without having to have and maintain a skilled and experienced bootfitter(s) at every outlet. The system he came up with was to put customers into boots that were not tight fits (which would usually require extensive boot knowledge and some punching and grinding by someone with the requisite skills and experience), and make up for the often too large size by foaming it. That way, custom foaming in a slightly larger size would make up for the lack of skills and detailed knowledge, and he could escape the bottleneck problem to create a chain of profitable stores. He could then hire less experienced (lower paid) folk for his franchises/outlets, and not have them bottleneck or fail because of a lack of a steady, real bootfitter or two at each outlet. I'd guess that sometimes this formula would work out for folks just fine, depending on their feet and needs.

The formula sort of worked, apparently, but I'm told it mostly included locating the successful outlets at ski resorts catering to a good percentage of destination, well-to-do but out of town skiers. That way, people would overpay and be gone within a week or so, not enough time to be bothered by a comfort fit that over time would lack performance, for many.

To summarize, the formula, I was told, was to used boots large enough to not require a real bootfitter's skills, and compensate for that with foaming, and out of town customers.


This explanation came from folks I trust, and accounted for my one, extended experience with Surefoot: expensive and a mistake, for me. "A-ha, so that was what was going on," I realized, once I was told about it. (Confirmed by others in the Biz.)

Since then, I've found several real bootfitters, including at a shop that handles race boots and consumer race boots, which works for me.
 
Last edited:

Kneale Brownson

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Don't know about the formula. My first pair of Surefoots were a size smaller than the boots they replaced (fitted by a locally recognized "bootfitter" with years of experience).
 

Uncle-A

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Don't know about the formula. My first pair of Surefoots were a size smaller than the boots they replaced (fitted by a locally recognized "bootfitter" with years of experience).
Maybe the boots you replaced were too big for you in the first place, it is quite common that people purchase a boot that is comfortable in the shop and after it breaks in it is too big. The next thing that they do is over tighten and end up causing pain and other issues. If I had a dollar for every time I had people come in from other shops and ask if I could make their boots tighter, I would have a rich retirement.
 

Kneale Brownson

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Maybe the boots you replaced were too big for you in the first place, it is quite common that people purchase a boot that is comfortable in the shop and after it breaks in it is too big. The next thing that they do is over tighten and end up causing pain and other issues. If I had a dollar for every time I had people come in from other shops and ask if I could make their boots tighter, I would have a rich retirement.

My point is that a supposedly good bootfitter DID put me into too large a boot and then stuffed it full of fitting customization.
 

Tricia

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The red mark is on the navicular bone not the ankle. You need some support under your foot, which means you need a boot fitter who can build a proper footbed for you.
Yup! First and foremost!


So these bootfitters modify boots?
Since I can still return the boot isn't looking for a different one better idea?

Where do you live / ski?

San Diego, Mammoth, Big Bear. Do you know one around the area?


Thanks all for the answers.

Footloose and Kittredge are the go-to shops at Mammoth.
Footloose is the most highly recommended.
I think that's where @VickiK got her boots.

You need the name of a good boot fitter, not the shop where he may or may not be the fitter on duty when you show up.
They have a solid staff at Footloose, Cordy is the top guy but he's got a few.

Kevin Hepburn at Footloose is my guy.
@rjski I'd go with this recommendation.
 

Uncle-A

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My point is that a supposedly good bootfitter DID put me into too large a boot and then stuffed it full of fitting customization.
It is unfortunate that you had issue with a supposed good boot fitter, some of the refits I had to work on were from my coworkers. One of which owns a shop now and he has difficulty finding good help. I think the most difficult part of fitting a boot is the communication between the customer and the fitter, those of us here on PUGSKI are somewhat ahead of the normal public when it comes to knowing about our boots and our feet, the general public has less knowledge about boots and for a sales person who has to be an educator as well is a fitter it can be difficult.
 

Eddie

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If you keep getting a boot that's wider and wider, or bigger and bigger, till it doesn't hurt, eventually you'll end up with the "Florida fit". That's not where you want to be if you actually want to ski well.

I am also intrigued as to what is a "Florida fit"?
 

L&AirC

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Surefoot is a chain, not a bootfitter.
(They all use the same "mass market" recipe, I've been told repeatedly.) From personal experience, they are a "no" here in Colo.

Don't know about the formula. My first pair of Surefoots were a size smaller than the boots they replaced (fitted by a locally recognized "bootfitter" with years of experience).

Disclaimer: I have ZERO experience with Surefoot and know nothing about the company and my post below is from reading between the lines of not just the post quoted but others in this thread.

Kneale & ski otter2,
Just as it is possible for a "real" bootfitter to not be that good or to not get it right now and again, it is just as possible that a store/chain that doesn't typically have top notch bootfitters will have very good bootfitters now and again, or someone will have a good day and get it very right. Like in any industry, whether a chain or not, some will do better than others and no matter how rigid the recipe, part of the formula is the staff.

I also think once you get a good pair of boots fitted correctly, it is easier the next time around, especially if you're a repeat customer. When I got my last pair fitted at the end of the season, I walked in with my old boots and asked for the same thing again. Just like skis, except for the top coat, the boots are the same, the custom insole was being reused so it was just a matter of a shim here and there and getting everything aligned. It took a while to do but there wasn't any head scratching or going back to the drawing board. I couldn't be happier.

At the same time, I know of folks on this forum that have used the same fitter and haven't been happy with the results.

"You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time." - Poet John Lydgate as made famous by Abraham Lincoln

Ken
 

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