Boot flex and too tight?

[mxracer317]

Boot fitter was insistent that I ski in a 25.5. I tried it today for the first time and I could barely make one run my feet were in such bad pain. Even with the 26.5 in the original Rossi boots, I had NO pain.

I’m not a beginners by any means. I felt comfortable on some black diamonds a few weeks ago... but this is INSANE! I literally had to call it quits after 1 run. I have never done that before. My shins are killing me and my feel hurt from the cramping.

Seriously, am I taking crazy pills or is he just trying to stuff me into something that just isn’t working??

 

[Coach13]

Did you take liner out and do a shell fit by sliding your foot foward unti your toes barely touch the front of the boot and them check the space behind your heel? If so, how much space is there? Also what size street shoes do you normally wear?

 

[CalG]

Boot fitter was insistent that I ski in a 25.5. I tried it today for the first time and I could barely make one run my feet were in such bad pain. Even with the 26.5 in the original Rossi boots, I had NO pain.

I’m not a beginners by any means. I felt comfortable on some black diamonds a few weeks ago... but this is INSANE! I literally had to call it quits after 1 run. I have never done that before. My shins are killing me and my feel hurt from the cramping.

Seriously, am I taking crazy pills or is he just trying to stuff me into something that just isn’t working??

Seriously, by NOT doing a shell fit, you are just stringing this thread along for your own reasons.

DATA! We need DATA. Subjective comment and opinion are futile!

eta
Actually it is not we that need the data, it is YOU!

 

[mxracer317]

He did. I don’t know how much space he said was there, but I just took the liner out of the 26.5 (same model) that I picked up tonight and my toes were right at the end. Like RIGHT at the end. I realize the liner will end up compressing a little bit and that when your foot isn’t in forward lean position, there’s a gap by your heel… But I’m telling you it was just nightmare pain. Putting the 26.5 on today, felt tight too.

I race motocross and snapped my arm completely in half and had a compound fracture. Two plates and 14 screws. Now I’m not saying that that didn’t hurt, because that was a whole other level of pain… just saying I handle pain pretty decent. Today was quite high on the pain index.

 

[Chris Geib]

Hi mxracer,

This is pretty tough to workout over the Internet!

Could be any number of things. Sometimes it is painful to work through the breaking in of a new liner. So, maybe ya just need to suck it up for a bit, wear some nylons for a few days instead of socks and make sure not to over buckle. Or maybe the boot is too narrow? Or maybe you have a neuroma? Or maybe too much net forward lean? Maybe not enough and you were clenching your feet? Or maybe you forgot to put your footbeds in? Or maybe it was really cold and you thought thicker socks would be a good idea? Or maybe [ insert random number of things here…] No way to know from a monitor far far away!

In general though, the first few days can be rough and it might help to put some time in doing short intervals around the house. ...and I was serious, get some knee high nylons to wear so you have the least material thickness in the boot. If that works out, then sometimes it is a matter of a few runs at a time with needing to peel the boots off regularly for sanity. Conversely, you don’t want to push through if the nerves are suffering damage and create a neuroma as these are bad news and can haunt you indefinitely.

If trying to pursue advice here, the more details the better! Was a shell fit done? Where is the pain? What is boot? What is ski & binding? What fitting work was completed? Alignment? Fore/aft balancing? Describe as many relevant details as possible...

Good luck!

 

[Chris Geib]

If you have already changed boot what is the point of discussing the one already ditched?

 

[mxracer317]

Lots of good information in these replies. Thank you. Just FYI, I use the stance ultralight sock. It’s basically is a nylon thickness. I don’t over buckle the boots and I wear vans size 9. Wearing these things even before I’m buckled into the ski reminds me of that scene in Cinderella on the evil stepsisters try to fit on the glass slipper and her foot just bends like a C trying to stuff it in.

There is NO way I could finish one lap, let alone suck it up and do a few, chill and do more. It HURTS just putting them on in the house.

I think I’m just going to step up into the 26.5 and call it good. Anyone think that is a bad idea?

 

[MAB]

Lots of good information in these replies. Thank you. Just FYI, I use the stance ultralight sock. It’s basically is a nylon thickness. I don’t over buckle the boots and I wear vans size 9. Wearing these things even before I’m buckled into the ski reminds me of that scene in Cinderella on the evil stepsisters try to fit on the glass slipper and her foot just bends like a C trying to stuff it in.

There is NO way I could finish one lap, let alone suck it up and do a few, chill and do more. It HURTS just putting them on in the house.

I think I’m just going to step up into the 26.5 and call it good. Anyone think that is a bad idea?

Have you gone back to Inkline and told them about the problems (I think that is where you said you got them)? They will be able to deal with length and width issues for you if that is what is causing the pain. While shoe size doesn't mean much, I am also in a 9 or 9.5 in nearly all shoes and wear a 25.5 in the s-max 130. I have even been in a 24.5 in another boot. Point being, it likely wouldn't take much to make space for your toes if that really is the problem. The boot is also easily made wider. The shop should do those things for you if it is needed without a charge, so I wouldn't give up on it yet. Given that shop's reputation, it is hard to believe they wouldn't try to make things right for you.

Are you using the stock liner or did you an Intuition or something else? If you are in a stiffer liner than you are used to, it may take some getting used to and take longer to break in. Do you have new footbeds? That could also be causing pain.

And I know you said you don't overbuckle, but the s-max is pretty narrow around the leg shaft, plus it is likely much stiffer than you are used to. I would play around with barely buckling the top. When I first got them, I forgot to buckle them a few times at the top of the lift and barely noticed while skiing.

 

[mxracer317]

Inkline is run by a great guy and he is passionate for helping people. This is why I am struggling... I trust him explicitly, but I’m sitting on my couch almost 5 hours later with leg and foot pain... from 1 run only. There is no way I could keep this up with the hopes of breaking down the liner after 5 or 6 days.

Barely buckling the boot... custom foot beds and the stock S/Max liner (heat molded) and the shell has been punched out 1cm in length.

Like I mentioned, I am thinking of staying in the 26.5 and when the liner finally breaks down, replacing it with another liner, or putting foam in or getting a new set of boots. I only ski 10-12 times per year so I’m not sure if the discomfort of forcing a 25.5 is worth any gains that I would lose from going into a 26.5.

Also, on a side Note at the S max is 25/25.5 and 26/26.5. I wonder if that slight amount of extra room is enough to call it good?

The only issue that I had with the Rossi‘s were that it wasn’t a low-volume boot, so I was getting a little bit of foot slip but I think that’s mitigated with the S max being low volume?

 

[eok]

In any case, if the boots are so painful, you do need to go back to the shop & get the shop to fix the problem. I'd go over the issue with the owner/manager & try to get a second opinion on the boot size/fit they selected for you (if they have another fitter). If it means you do have to go up a boot size, so be it.

Expert skiers here will almost always emphasize getting a quite tight fitting boot and I agree with that as a general guideline. BUT: all things considered, super tight ski boots are worthless if you can't stay in 'em for more than a couple runs of agony.

I do have to say that the X/Max boot line is one of the more adaptable types of ski boots. The shells are literally designed for heat molding/stretching and the liners (usually) are designed for heat molding as well. I've seen people deliberately buy X/Max boots 1 or even 2 sizes smaller than their normal mondo size and then heat mold the shell to get a very good close fit.

 

[Josh Matta]

have you shell fit the 25.5 yet? I dont think anyone should post till we have this info.

 

[Coach13]

have you shell fit the 25.5 yet? I dont think anyone should post till we have this info.

That’s why I ask this! Heck if there is adequate room with a proper shell fit maybe the liner just needs stretched. I guessing the shell isn’t fitting length wise though.

 

[François Pugh]

Maybe liner is too short and too tight. It happens.
Edit: I see Coach beet me to it [Maxwell Smart voice] by that much. [/Maxwell Smart voice]

 

[Tricia]

but I just took the liner out of the 26.5 (same model) that I picked up tonight and my toes were right at the end. Like RIGHT at the end. I realize the liner will end up compressing a little bit and that when your foot isn’t in forward lean position, there’s a gap by your heel…

It sound like you did a shell fit but don't know what you're looking for.
If you can get two fingers behind your heel with your toes at the front of the shell, that's a recreational fit.
If its one finger, that is closer to a performance fit.

Barely buckling the boot... custom foot beds and the stock S/Max liner (heat molded) and the shell has been punched out 1cm in length.

Sounds like the shop did a bunch of work on the boot already and you're still having issues. Take it back and let them know. The solution may be to go up a size, but they may find that a different model works better. At this point, we can't tell because we're not looking at your feet.

 

[Corgski]

Lots of good information in these replies. Thank you. Just FYI, I use the stance ultralight sock. It’s basically is a nylon thickness. I don’t over buckle the boots and I wear vans size 9. Wearing these things even before I’m buckled into the ski reminds me of that scene in Cinderella on the evil stepsisters try to fit on the glass slipper and her foot just bends like a C trying to stuff it in.

There is NO way I could finish one lap, let alone suck it up and do a few, chill and do more. It HURTS just putting them on in the house.

I think I’m just going to step up into the 26.5 and call it good. Anyone think that is a bad idea?

Be wary about skiing with foot pain, doing this resulted in me ending up with chronic foot pain that took a long time to resolve. There was a recent thread with other people discussing similar experiences. Higher end liners do not necessarily pack out like those in entry level boots and even if they did pack out enough in 10 days of skiing, you may end up hobbling around in pain for the rest of the year.

I think you need to think through carefully about what you are feeling with your feet so that you can provide more useful feedback, whether online or to the fitter. You are talking a lot about the length but have you even considered the instep yet? It is possible to have instep pressure that initially does not feel excessive but can quickly result in a lot of pain. My understanding is that the S/Max has a very low instep and as such was not even an option for me when upgrading recently. Narrower feet do not automatically mean you have a low instep. Even orthotics can be a source of pain.

The boot size is based on your actual foot length in cm. Do you know what your actual foot length is?

 

[LiquidFeet]

@mxracer317, where exactly is the pain located?

Is it at the tips of your toes next to toenails?
Outside or inside edge of foot, and if so where exactly along that edge?
Along the bottom of foot?
Ball of foot area?
Heel/achilles area?
Top of foot?
Ankle bones?
At the angle between foot and lower leg, where the top of your foot meets the shin?
Front of shins?

Try this. Put the boots on now, wear them around the house for an hour to let your foot get irritated, take them off, find the red spots on your skin and draw circles around each sore spot with a bold black permanent marker. Take pictures and post them here.

When you visit the bootfitter, make sure the permanent marker circles are still visible.

 

[Wendy]

I am putting money on it being his instep, despite the lack of info. The kind of debilitating foot pain he is describing = instep issues to me.

I used to be in the “ski it for awhile and let it settle in” camp, until I ended up with some permanent damage. Getting the ultimate performance fit isn’t worth it if the price is foot damage.

 

[François Pugh]

@mxracer317, where exactly is the pain located?

Is it at the tips of your toes next to toenails?
Outside or inside edge of foot, and if so where exactly along that edge?
Along the bottom of foot?
Ball of foot area?
Heel/achilles area?
Top of foot?
Ankle bones?
At the angle between foot and lower leg, where the top of your foot meets the shin?
Front of shins?

Try this. Put the boots on now, wear them around the house for an hour to let your foot get irritated, take them off, find the red spots on your skin and draw circles around each sore spot with a bold black permanent marker. Take pictures and post them here.

When you visit the bootfitter, make sure the permanent marker circles are still visible.

Uh, yeah, maybe obvious, BUT draw the circles on the corresponding spots on the boot, not on your foot.
Worth repeating, if the liners don't fit making the boot bigger won't help.

 

[François Pugh]

Of course if you want to post some pics of your feet with circled spots on them, we can help.

 

[François Pugh]

Oh, and try wearing just the liners for an hour and see what happens.