Well, it's a reference to King Solomon (not the ski kind).
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Booster Straps??
- Thread starter Coach13
- Start date
Well, it's a reference to King Solomon (not the ski kind).
If you think the boot is tight enough at the top of the cuff. Try the following - In your living room/man cave, put on your boot and buckle it normally and step into your skis. Using couple chair to aid your balance. Lean back all the way. Gap at the shin? That is where the shin bang comes from.
The ski tails provides a lot of leverage to open your boots up.
Shin bangs is related to technique as much as equipment. Booster straps are not a cure all for shin bangs but it's a good start to a fix.
For shin bang at the top of the cuff, put the booster strap inside the shell up against the liner tongue.
For max performance ripping groomers, put the strap outside of the shell.
I will try that but the boots are quite snug. I have been skiing for almost 50 years and while I had issues with shin back in the 80s when Langes were notrious for it I haven't had an issue for a long time.
Since you have chairs and ski boots out at home, you can also try the "step up with one foot while keeping your hips level" test. 
Since you have chairs and ski boots out at home, you can also try the "step up with one foot while keeping your hips level" test.
Not sure I have the athleticism anymore to pull that off!
Booster on Lange ZB boots. On the outside.
Where all the cool kids run them.
Where all the cool kids run them.
When I had my BD liners made earlier this season the fitter removed my Boosters and put my regular Atomic straps back on. With all this booster talk, I decided to put the boosters back on. Well I’m not sure if I like it, for some reason I feel more upright.
Be careful with the Booster inside out west - it's really easy to overtighten and kill blood flow particularly if your feet swell with altitude.
What feels good in the lodge isn't necessarily great at the top of the tram. Expect to fiddle with both the straps and the buckles during lunch for the first few days.
Thanks for the advice. I have only used them in New England so far
Sorry, but this is a bit of incomplete information. WC and Expert/Racer versions both have 3 ELASTIC bands. However, the WC version has forth additional non-elastic strap stitched in the middle of two bands. So only the side parts of the elastic straps can expand. The third elastic band remains independent. If that two bands had been just only stitched together, that would've not changed elasticity. But the non-elastic 'bridge" in the middle shortens the elastic part of them and makes them stiffer. Therefore, if you want to downgrade WC to Expert/Racer, you need to cut that non-elastic strap.
Not many engineers on the board eh?
I’ll offer an opinion that is different from everyone else here - having the strap inside or outside the cuff should make just about 0 difference - they should have the same net result.
Assuming the elastic band acts like a linear spring, the force of the elastic band Fspring = kx, where x is the amount the strap is stretched, and k is the “spring constant”, which is just a constant value related to how stiff the band is (more bands on the WC vs Expert acts like having the springs in parallel for the strap’s overall spring rate, so the spring constant for all the bands together will equal the sum of the spring constant for each band).
Now in reality the elastic is more like a progressive spring than linear, but either way the force of the strap is a function of the amount it is stretched (I.e. Fspring = kx^2). Saved law above for parallel springs will apply.
Now, assuming the strap is generally snug, and the cuff is generally snug (I.e. no play between the liner, boot, strap) - when you flex your leg forward a certain amount (say 3 degrees), the strap will stretch a specific length. Whether the strap is against the liner, or outside the shell, it will go from its neutral state (unstretched or lightly stretched, doesn’t matter) to its stretched state. Let’s say that’s 1cm of stretch.
Whether the strap is outside or inside, it will stretch the same 1cm when you flex the boot 3 degrees, and thus the force it applies to your leg (and to the spine of the boot) will be exactly the same, because the only variable in the equation for the strap’s force is the distance it is stretched.
Force is a through-value, because every force has an equal and opposite reaction. So the force of the strap, stretched 1cm, is the same upon the leg and spine of the boot no matter where in the mechanical system the strap physically is.
That being said, the mechanics also explain why a booster strap changes the way a boot feels and flexes compared to a Velcro strap.
Velcro straps have essentially no stretch, and thus don’t act like a spring, rather they act like a rigid conection between your the front of the boot (cuff, tongue) and the spine of the boot. All the force from flexing the boot comes from the “springs” of the shell and liner. A wrap liner has a higher/substantial spring constant, and changes the flex of the boot. A tongue liner (without laces) has almost no spring constant, and has very little affect on the flex of the boot. And in the boot’s system, the shell has by far the highest spring constant, which is why it has the most impact on the way a boot flexes (and why boots come in 80-140 flexes, and the flexes are a result of the shell plastics and design, not the straps).
With a booster strap that stretches, the boot system can be viewed as springs in series, as when your leg moves the tongue of the boot a certain distance against the strap, the front of the boot/tongue/liner moves more than the spine (compared the the ~rigid Velcro strap connecting the spine to the tongue/cuff/shin, where the spine and front of the boot will move more or less the same amount). In this case, the net spring constant of the system 1/ktotal = (1/Kstrap) + (1/Kspine), so the addition of the softer spring booster strap softens the flex of the boot. With a progressive spring model, it makes sense that adding the booster strap makes the boot’s overall flex progressive compared to no booster, as the shell’s flex is roughly linear. (Linear shell spring + nonlinear booster strap = non linear total boot spring). With a Cabrillo design the booster strap just makes it more progressive, as progressive shell spring + progressive strap = progressive (non linear) total boot spring.
Wikipedia page can be helpful understanding what I’m talking about for those that don’t remember their high school and college physics and mechanics classes (;
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Series_and_parallel_springs
People may disagree with me, saying “I’ve skied bloth ways and it feels different” but I’d wager it’s almost entirely in your head and in a blind test with all the straps and buckles tightened the same amount you would not be able to tell which boot has the strap installed which way. The mechanics don’t lie.
Final disclaimer is of course that these equations are simplified to some degree - the equation for the force of the shell and total boot system will be a little bit more complex, but overall the system equations I have depicted here should accurately describe the behavior of the boot
I’ll offer an opinion that is different from everyone else here - having the strap inside or outside the cuff should make just about 0 difference - they should have the same net result.
Assuming the elastic band acts like a linear spring, the force of the elastic band Fspring = kx, where x is the amount the strap is stretched, and k is the “spring constant”, which is just a constant value related to how stiff the band is (more bands on the WC vs Expert acts like having the springs in parallel for the strap’s overall spring rate, so the spring constant for all the bands together will equal the sum of the spring constant for each band).
Now in reality the elastic is more like a progressive spring than linear, but either way the force of the strap is a function of the amount it is stretched (I.e. Fspring = kx^2). Saved law above for parallel springs will apply.
Now, assuming the strap is generally snug, and the cuff is generally snug (I.e. no play between the liner, boot, strap) - when you flex your leg forward a certain amount (say 3 degrees), the strap will stretch a specific length. Whether the strap is against the liner, or outside the shell, it will go from its neutral state (unstretched or lightly stretched, doesn’t matter) to its stretched state. Let’s say that’s 1cm of stretch.
Whether the strap is outside or inside, it will stretch the same 1cm when you flex the boot 3 degrees, and thus the force it applies to your leg (and to the spine of the boot) will be exactly the same, because the only variable in the equation for the strap’s force is the distance it is stretched.
Force is a through-value, because every force has an equal and opposite reaction. So the force of the strap, stretched 1cm, is the same upon the leg and spine of the boot no matter where in the mechanical system the strap physically is.
That being said, the mechanics also explain why a booster strap changes the way a boot feels and flexes compared to a Velcro strap.
Velcro straps have essentially no stretch, and thus don’t act like a spring, rather they act like a rigid conection between your the front of the boot (cuff, tongue) and the spine of the boot. All the force from flexing the boot comes from the “springs” of the shell and liner. A wrap liner has a higher/substantial spring constant, and changes the flex of the boot. A tongue liner (without laces) has almost no spring constant, and has very little affect on the flex of the boot. And in the boot’s system, the shell has by far the highest spring constant, which is why it has the most impact on the way a boot flexes (and why boots come in 80-140 flexes, and the flexes are a result of the shell plastics and design, not the straps).
With a booster strap that stretches, the boot system can be viewed as springs in series, as when your leg moves the tongue of the boot a certain distance against the strap, the front of the boot/tongue/liner moves more than the spine (compared the the ~rigid Velcro strap connecting the spine to the tongue/cuff/shin, where the spine and front of the boot will move more or less the same amount). In this case, the net spring constant of the system 1/ktotal = (1/Kstrap) + (1/Kspine), so the addition of the softer spring booster strap softens the flex of the boot. With a progressive spring model, it makes sense that adding the booster strap makes the boot’s overall flex progressive compared to no booster, as the shell’s flex is roughly linear. (Linear shell spring + nonlinear booster strap = non linear total boot spring). With a Cabrillo design the booster strap just makes it more progressive, as progressive shell spring + progressive strap = progressive (non linear) total boot spring.
Wikipedia page can be helpful understanding what I’m talking about for those that don’t remember their high school and college physics and mechanics classes (;
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Series_and_parallel_springs
People may disagree with me, saying “I’ve skied bloth ways and it feels different” but I’d wager it’s almost entirely in your head and in a blind test with all the straps and buckles tightened the same amount you would not be able to tell which boot has the strap installed which way. The mechanics don’t lie.
Final disclaimer is of course that these equations are simplified to some degree - the equation for the force of the shell and total boot system will be a little bit more complex, but overall the system equations I have depicted here should accurately describe the behavior of the boot
^^^^^^^^^^^ I like the engineering, but what you're missing is the boot/liner fit component of the equation. What an elasticized strap, when put on the inside of the shell cuff, provides is a better, more responsive fit around the leg. The direct contact of the strap across the top of the liner ensures that there is no gap (which would reduce responsiveness). The Booster also permits you to tighten the strap more than you can usually get away with when using a normal Velcro strap. You did mention the progressive flex of the Booster, it's not linear, and this feature is what primarily drives sales.
Read this whole @#$% thread and I still don't know if I want these or not. Come on people, make the case!
Read this whole @#$% thread and I still don't know if I want these or not. Come on people, make the case!
With you on this one. I guess I can understand the need for one if you want to soften or stiffen forward flex. Or if your boots do not fit well around calf’s. Mine fit well around calf and am happy with forward flex, in a softer boot probably recommend for my size.
I have a boot that satisfies both those criteria - but I'm still doing the Booster and the front spoilers both
Get the Booster straps and decide for yourself. Try them both ways. It’s not like they’re expensive. If you don’t like them you can swap back the original power straps that came with your boots.
Myself, I have them under the shell, very snug, and barely have to buckle my boots. Done thusly, I find they keep my boots responsive, regardless of how much or how little I buckle.
Myself, I have them under the shell, very snug, and barely have to buckle my boots. Done thusly, I find they keep my boots responsive, regardless of how much or how little I buckle.
Read this whole @#$% thread and I still don't know if I want these or not. Come on people, make the case!
Wat noodler said in the post above yours.
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