Binding ramp angle differences

[Muleski]

Agree, it sounds somewhat counter intuitive, and just "not logical" unless you have experience with this. But, if you're well dialed in on your skis, and you increase the height of your heels, you are going to be ion the back seat. Or fighting it. Exactly as @eric describes.

I've had many many years of experience with this using Marker 20.0 and 30.0 bindings on a Piston Plate. Very easy to work through this with the 1mm shims used by Marker race on this bindings. Our daughter, who skied "at a pretty high level" general had her toes 2 or 3mm higher than her heels on her SL and GS skis. Not the other way around.

Pretty universal in what I have seen with maybe a few hundred high level athletes. Hope that might help.

I know it sound strange.

 

[RuleMiHa]

Agree, it sounds somewhat counter intuitive, and just "not logical" unless you have experience with this. But, if you're well dialed in on your skis, and you increase the height of your heels, you are going to be ion the back seat. Or fighting it. Exactly as @eric describes.

I've had many many years of experience with this using Marker 20.0 and 30.0 bindings on a Piston Plate. Very easy to work through this with the 1mm shims used by Marker race on this bindings. Our daughter, who skied "at a pretty high level" general had her toes 2 or 3mm higher than her heels on her SL and GS skis. Not the other way around.

Pretty universal in what I have seen with maybe a few hundred high level athletes. Hope that might help.

I know it sound strange.

No, makes perfect sense, as you said above "if you are well dialed in on your skis". I'm just saying there are more factors involved than *just* delta.

 

[Muleski]

Yep. And I probably should have read all of the recent comments. This can be a very "tedious" topic on here. Shades of Epic.

 

[bud heishman]

The Sagittal plane which is the plane we are moving along here, is affected by four parameters: internal ramp, forward cuff lean, external delta angle, and binding mount position. Morphologically, as some have pointed out here, boot sole length, lower leg length, femur length, upper body mass, all affect individual needs. The goal is to find a good neutral or detent position from which to move and have the most efficient affect over the skis. Zeroing in on just one parameter to solve all fore/aft problems is a bit short sighted. Remember the body will go where it needs to go to find balance. If we want it in a certain position, we need to change the equipment to cause the body to find this desired position, whatever that may be!

 

[Idaho Dan]

You can lift the heels of those bindings without adversely affecting their function for sure. You will probably want a shop to do this as you may nee longer screws and you aren't going to find those in the hardware store. If it were me, I'd try to experiment with lifting the toe and the heel separately before getting out the post-driver. This wouldn't be Marker approved, but if it were me, I'd stuff an old lifter plate under the toe and then the heel of my binding. Maybe duct-tape it on, and I'd use thin ones 3 maybe 4mm at most and see what it feels like. It is true that most of the time lifting the heel will make it so you feel the front of the ski less, but if you are way, way out then it may work how you are expecting.

Thanks for the info. I have tried stuffing some shims between binding and boot heel already, but it made me nervous skiing like that because I knew I was messing with the binding function. It did feel good for the few conservative runs I did though. I've also tried heel lifts inside the boot, more forward lean, calf spoilers, different boots and flexibility settings, and different skis.

I really do not have a common physical anatomy. 5'10" 135 lbs, all legs.

I'll report back after ski surgery and more snow around here.

 

[Mike King]

@Idaho Dan, I'd highly recommend visiting a well qualified boot fitter to look at your alignment. As @bud heishman said, alignment is pretty complex and you may need more adjustment than you think.

Mike

 

[Idaho Dan]

@Idaho Dan, I'd highly recommend visiting a well qualified boot fitter to look at your alignment. As @bud heishman said, alignment is pretty complex and you may need more adjustment than you think.

Mike

Yeah, this. Probably can't swing it until Jan, but I'm coming to see you @bud heishman. Can it get worked out in a day or two though? Flying back and forth for multiple visits would get costly.

 

[bud heishman]

Yeah, this. Probably can't swing it until Jan, but I'm coming to see you @bud heishman. Can it get worked out in a day or two though? Flying back and forth for multiple visits would get costly.

Hi Dan, yes we can get you pretty close in the shop and take it on the hill to fine tune.

 

[Juha]

What a great old thread - good to use find every now and then.

I went to measure my SL skis and they were between 0.0mm to 5.6 mm delta. The ones that feel working for me the best (my own feeling and the feedback of the coach) are ones with 2.6 mm and 3.6 mm.

It was good to read this thread and measure the deltas - it explains a lot of the feeling.

Maybe I should tune the other skis to this same delta to see if they also behave better on the track with this setup. Or at least experiment with quick and dirty method of beer glass coasters under the toe or heel..