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karlo

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So, where are recommended mount points if not at the dimensional center of a ski? The fulcrum? The center of camber? The center between rise-points of a fully rockered ski?

The guide nixed my plan to bringing an extra pair of skis. Oh well, I guess I make do. Luckily, the consensus here is that, if there is a problem at all, and there very well may not be, it’s one that will not be debilitating.
 

Doug Briggs

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The mounting point varies depending on the ski's design and desired performance characteristics. A ski with a lot of early rise will probably be mounted much further back than a ski without. A powder ski further back than a race ski.

Park skis (twin tips, typically symmetric) for people that ski equally forward and backward on their skis are typically mounted boot sole center over the chord length center. Chord length is the full tip to tail length of a ski. Park skis are about the only skis that are mounted with the boot sole center over the center of the ski.

Lots of skis use the contact points to measure the 'effective length' of a ski and mount accordingly.
 

James

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Last year I rented a pair of Solomans in Chamonix for the Vallée Blanche. Strapped the skis to my pack for the hike along the ridge with the guided group. Get to the end and clicked into one ski, but the second boot wouldn’t go in. I’m cursing at it and have to tell the guide because everything is go-go-go, and I can’t get my ski on. Just as I’m looking at it and wondering if the shop guy never adjusted it, or if one of the toe/heel pieces slipped all the way. Can’t remember which piece. (Note to self, make sure both skis are adjusted before leaving the shop and getting on a 9k ft vertical lift)

The upshot was the guide insisting on moving the wrong binding piece. Then we had to go. So, I ended up with one ski at like -4 cm. My handicap. Half way down he asked if it was ok. Ça marche. By that point no way was I dealing with it on snow and risk dropping it. Not that there was time for that.

For a shop mount 2-3mm. More important is centered and not skewed.
 

Ross Biff

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Last year I rented a pair of Solomans in Chamonix for the Vallée Blanche. Strapped the skis to my pack for the hike along the ridge with the guided group. Get to the end and clicked into one ski, but the second boot wouldn’t go in. I’m cursing at it and have to tell the guide because everything is go-go-go, and I can’t get my ski on. Just as I’m looking at it and wondering if the shop guy never adjusted it, or if one of the toe/heel pieces slipped all the way. Can’t remember which piece. (Note to self, make sure both skis are adjusted before leaving the shop and getting on a 9k ft vertical lift)

The upshot was the guide insisting on moving the wrong binding piece. Then we had to go. So, I ended up with one ski at like -4 cm. My handicap. Half way down he asked if it was ok. Ça marche. By that point no way was I dealing with it on snow and risk dropping it. Not that there was time for that.

For a shop mount 2-3mm. More important is centered and not skewed.
I'm not sure how much fore/aft difference there would need to be before I couldn't ski the things but a skewed binding mount is very hard to compensate for when skiing. How can you get a skewed mount if the shop is using a jig? I'm not sure I'd want them waxing my skis if they can't get a mount square with a jig!
 

James

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How can you get a skewed mount if the shop is using a jig? I'm not sure I'd want them waxing my skis if they can't get a mount square with a jig!

A good jig will save a lot of time but it is still a tool that can be misused by someone who either doesn't know what he / she is doing or doesn't care. People don't know what the final product is supposed to look like but they go through the motions and wonder why the boss (me) is standing there shaking his head.

Take something as simple as a quarter round bit in a hand held router; easy to set up and use but set it a bit too deep and you may have ruined your work. LOOK AT WHAT YOUR TOOL IS DOING BEFORE YOU RUN THAT DAMN THING ALL OVER $3000 OF MATERIAL!

You can see it's still a sensitive subject with me! :doh:
 

James

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Those jigs where you put the plates in for different bindings... Incredibly easy to get the thing caddy wampus. Esp when the ski is normally cambered. Don't ask how I know.
 

KingGrump

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How does one measure this? Center of toe and heel pieces centered to ski?

You can usually measure it with a set of properly calibrated eye balls.
 

GregK

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I have seen jigs that have been off with the “jig center line” not lining up with the boot center line on certain boots. So unless the tech is checking to make sure they match or not if not before drilling, they usually use the jig center and the boot center will be off slightly.

I’ve had a tech mount one ski on my desired boot center that was marked with tape and then mount the other ski 4cm forward of the other ski even with both skis marked with tape etc. They ended up ordering in new skis and re-mounting them with me present and checking the mount before drilling any holes. Needless to say I no longer go there. Lol
 

oldschoolskier

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There is a Canadian study on binding position and its effect on performance. If my memory serves correct the result was, it does to some extent however once a skier got used to it, the effect diminished.

The biggest thing is depending on your technique, it can either help enhance your actions, or detract from them. It is both ski construction and technique dependent.
 

Scruffy

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How does one measure this? Center of toe and heel pieces centered to ski?

That's not hard to do at all with simple shop tools. You can use a Vernier Caliper if you have one, or go low tech and just use two carpenter squares, some painter's tape, a metric ruler and pencil. Mind you, you will only be as precise as you have the ability to be with either high or low tech tools, so if you don't have an engineer's mind and/or a mechanic's feel then, buyer beware, or in this case user beware.

Low tech method: ( assumes a "flat" ski, not a system rail mount )

Note: This is the center width line running longitudinally, not cord center line, and not of the entire ski length, just the binding mount area. Let's assume you are using a paper binding template and want to center it before you drill. You will need to find the center line of the ski at each ends of the template to line up the center line of the template to the center of the ski. You could also use this center line to verify that a mount jig is centered. This assumes you've already figured out the boot center mark and binding center marks. That's another task not covered here. We are only covering the ski center line longitudinally.

First off, ignore the top sheet and any marks on it because top sheet marks may not be correct (we can debate how that happens during manufacturing elsewhere). Your goal is to find the center of the ski, based on the width at two exact fore/aft locations, at the ski's base, metal edge to metal edge, and transfer that to the top sheet. You are interested in the width of the ski at the surface that interacts with the snow, not the top of the ski. Yes the center should be the same top and bottom regardless, but as they say: shite happens and this will verify it if nothing else.

Find two spots on the ski, one just fore and one just aft of your binding template extreme ends. Note: the width of the ski will be different at any given location along the ski length. Place a piece of painters tape across the the top sheet of the ski at the template extreme locations. Let's start at the fore (towards tip) location. At your painters tape fore location put a carpenter's square body flush along the bottom of the ski and the square's tongue against the metal edge. Make sure the square is not cocked sideways and is as perpendicular to the ski edge as you can make it. Place another carpenter's square opposite the other on the other side of the ski. Again, make sure everything is flush and not askew. You can now simple measure the distance at that exact top sheet location between the two tongues of the two carpenter's squares using a good metric ruler and mark the center of that measurement on the painter's tape affixed to your top sheet. Repeat at aft ( towards tail) location. Now you have two center marks on the top sheet (based off the ski's base width) on the painter's tape at these two extreme binding end locations. Take a straight edge and draw a line between those two center marks longitudinally. Be mindful of the pencil line width. Now you have a center line of the ski within the range of the binding. Again, this a low tech method. Anyone can do this with enough care and some simple tools they probably already have around the house.

Edit to add: Oh darn I got side tracked. I wanted to add the reason you need to measure the base width edge to edge and then transfer that to the top sheet is that measuring the top shoulder edge of the ski is problematic, esp. with cap ski construction. Jigs essentially do this.
 
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Eleeski

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Worrying about exact binding placement once you age is silly. My artificial hip was installed and gave my leg a 15 degree twist (a free floating ball and socket, how did that happen?). My arthritic back won't let me weight shift forward - or is it always shifted forward? Dynamic movement can adapt to the small errors in mounting - or the accumulated errors in my skeleton.

TLAR. That Looks About Right is all that really matters. Deal with the variations - so you can ignore them.

Eric
 

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