Binding freedom threaded inserts/binding screws

[Jason Kurth]

Anyone use these? How are they?

I need to share bindings between skis and remove/remount them for travel purposes. Do they hold up for this?

 

[James]

Yes. They are a pain to install though. You'll also be a little shocked at how big the hole is.
Wonder what shops charge. I can hear the groans now.
Not hard, just time consuming and a bit tedious. I've only done 1. Make sure your bit is exactly meant for the insert. Different brands can be a little different. When you see a bulge on the underside it's not fun.
Make sure you have the right length screws and longer if you're going to use shims.
@SlideWright sells the stuff.

The screws he has are better than what they had in Chamonix at a shop. I took some shims out of the toe piece and so needed shorter screws. Inserts are popular there for travel I guess.
So I bring the ski, the guy looks at it and says, "Those aren't inserts."
-"Yes, they are"
"No, they're not"
-"Really, they are"
"How do you know?"
-"I put them in myself." (He was dubious)
"You mounted the bindings?"
-"Yes"
I was about to pull up a photo on the phone but by this time he had acquired a screwdriver and confirmed it. He was surprised because the screws they use are basic machine screws. They don't have the bigger heads and locking grooves underneath like binding screws. The ones I had did so they looked just like regular binding screws.

 

[Fishbowl]

I have them in several sets of skis. The main benefit for me was to be able to flat pack various skis for travel and just take one set of bindings.

They are easy to install with basic skills, especailly of you invest in the Binding Freedom tool kit.The main key to success is taking your time with accurate placement of the hole locations, and patience with the process. For accuracy I would recommend a drill press for the holes and a guide for the tap. There is a video out there where a guy does it by hand and eye, but I'm not that steady. I used paper templates, but would recommend a jig if you can get access to one.

They have held up for two seasons without any issue, and are easy to swap out. No real negatives.

 

[davjr96]

Also have had no problems with mine, kind of a pain to swap bindings back and forth if you don't have a drill, but I knew what I was getting into. I installed them myself and had no issues with paper templates and a steady hand, but they are certainly not perfectly installed.

 

[Jason Kurth]

I have them in several sets of skis. The main benefit for me was to be able to flat pack various skis for travel and just take one set of bindings.

They are easy to install with basic skills, especailly of you invest in the Binding Freedom tool kit.The main key to success is taking your time with accurate placement of the hole locations, and patience with the process. For accuracy I would recommend a drill press for the holes and a guide for the tap. There is a video out there where a guy does it by hand and eye, but I'm not that steady. I used paper templates, but would recommend a jig if you can get access to one.

They have held up for two seasons without any issue, and are easy to swap out. No real negatives.

Yes I need to maximize # of skis I can travel with. I can fit three pairs of 193-216cm skis in my bag, but with bindings on all of them im over 50lbs. Got away with it a few times but last time they weighed my ski bag and I was at 55lb.

I can prob travel with 3-4 pairs of race skis if I took off all bindings and just carried on one pair of bindings

 

[Jason Kurth]

do they hold well in plastic race plates? thats how I would be using them mostly

 

[Doug Briggs]

They are basically helicoils on steroids. I can't think of why they wouldn't work in plates that can be drilled. Plates that can't be drilled are another story.

 

[James]

Plastic race plates don't need inserts afaik. Just tap the holes. I suppose if you're removing them more than a couple times/yr then maybe inserts, but insert holes are huge. But @Doug Briggs or @Philpug should answer.

For other skis, here you go. Also has the glue and all the info. I'd rather have the special drill bit with machined in stop Can countersink by hand even, but should to avoid volcanoing holes. Say with this:

Or

Stepped bits, expensive but worth it.

See Here:
http://www.slidewright.com/ski-and-snowboard/bindings/

 

[Doug Briggs]

Plastic race plates don't need inserts afaik. Just tap the holes. I suppose if you're removing them more than a couple times/yr then maybe inserts, but insert holes are huge. But @Doug Briggs or @Philpug should answer.

I was thinking the same thing about plates. Careful screwing in and out would make the results more reliable. I've also used helicoils in plates, so that could save some $ on plates over inserts. So if I were going to set up skis to have removable bindings and the skis had plates, I'd probably forego the inserts and use helicoils as their strength and durability over just using holes with no insert or helicoil.

The major difference between helicoils and inserts is that inserts, by design, seal the ski protecting the core from moisture. Helicoils protect the ski through the usual means of waterproof glue being used while inserting the screw.

 

[James]

I was thinking the same thing about plates. Careful screwing in and out would make the results more reliable. I've also used helicoils in plates, so that could save some $ on plates over inserts. So if I were going to set up skis to have removable bindings and the skis had plates, I'd probably forego the inserts and use helicoils as their strength and durability over just using holes with no insert or helicoil.

The major difference between helicoils and inserts is that inserts, by design, seal the ski protecting the core from moisture. Helicoils protect the ski through the usual means of waterproof glue being used while inserting the screw.

What diameter do you need for helicoil? Inserts are 6mm/1/4 in, right? So would you epoxy the helicoil into the plate and then use loctite etc for the screw?

 

[Doug Briggs]

I don't know what size hole the helicoil takes. We just have a bit and tap for Helicoils. We also have the dealer version of the insert kit but I haven't used it. It comes with a wide range of screws, the necessary bits and taps and everything else you need.

If I were to put a helicoil in a plate and planned to swap bindings on a regular basis, I'd just install the helicoil as usual: drill oversize hole, tap hole, put glue on helicoil/in hole and insert. Then I'd use either glue or loctite for the screws.

FWIW, I always tap plates after drilling them. Pre-drilled plates usually get tapped except for those that won't accept the tap (few and far between; usually older plates for system bindings.)

 

[ScotsSkier]

Just use Atomic X series bindings . Travel with one set of bindings, leave the chassi on each pair of skis and only one screw in the binding connector to swap the bindings around. problem solved, no extra screwing in or out of the plate or the ski....

 

[Doug Briggs]

Just use Atomic X series bindings . Travel with one set of bindings, leave the chassi on each pair of skis and only one screw in the binding connector to swap the bindings around. problem solved, no extra screwing in or out of the plate or the ski....

That would presume you are using all Atomic skis/plates. Also that you don't travel with wide skis as X series brakes only come in narrow; I could be wrong about that, but don't think so.

Of course you can hand mount Atomic bindings on any skis, but finding a jig for Atomics is like finding hen's teeth. Hostage bindings are a bane to the skiing community.

 

[Jason Kurth]

yeah im too deep in head gear already

if I was starting over I might look for a different brand with a more integrated binding/plate system for this reason

 

[ScotsSkier]

That would presume you are using all Atomic skis/plates. Also that you don't travel with wide skis as X series brakes only come in narrow; I could be wrong about that, but don't think so.

Of course you can hand mount Atomic bindings on any skis, but finding a jig for Atomics is like finding hen's teeth. Hostage bindings are a bane to the skiing community.

Agreed on the lack of wide brakes Doug, and i am not sure if a jig for the X series even exists! (i do have a jig for the previous Atomic race bindings) I have successfully mounted the X-binding several times on head/fischer race plates though and (non-atomic wise) I currently run them on my blossom GS and 1018s on my Fischer DH

I have also usually found that across different jigs i can usually find some common holes that line up across different bindings so sometimes need to use several jigs for one mount when i don't have the correct jig!!

I have seen helicoils used on a few occasions on the Fischer/Head plates but you need to place them carefully fore/aft so you don't interfere with the plate mounting screws and the thin depth of the plate at certain points

 

[PTskier]

It looks like it would be pretty easy to install the Binding Freedom inserts without their expensive special tools--
--An F drill bit (or 6.5 mm) with a stop set at 9.5 mm, perhaps with the point angle ground to a flatter angle
--Countersink
--A 5/16-18 four flute bottoming tap, perhaps with the bottom ground away a bit so it bottoms farther into the hole
--A high strength M5 bolt (class 10.9 would be good) and two nuts jammed together leaving part of the threads to thread into the insert. Screw the insert into its hole with this.
--Epoxy adhesive
--Common metric flat head or pan head screws could probably be used, but the Binding Freedom screws have the advantage of the choice of head shape to fit bindings and the locking serrations on the contact surface to help hold the screws in place. 55 to 70 cents each, can't go wrong if you pick the correct length.

The Vibra-Tite VC-3 threadlocker for the binding screws remains flexible to absorb vibrations unlike the Loctite and Vibra-Tite thread lockers we commonly use. I use the low strength purple and medium strength blue, either brand. The purple works well for very small screws where I'm concerned the screw head might strip out before the blue Loctite lets go. Heat helps release the Loctite if the material around the screw can handle the heat.

 

[Jason Kurth]

well...