Binding Advice

[laine]

I've started demo-ing skis and have also begun to research bindings. There are several sales going on right now, so I might end up getting bindings before I get the skis. I was leaning towards the Dynafit ST Rotation 10, which I can find on sale for about $450. I demo'd skis this weekend and they had Fritschi bindings - so now I'm wondering if I should also consider the Fritschi Vipec Evo 12 as an option, which are on sale for the same price. Or just go with the Dynafits....

The one concern I have with the Fritschi Evo ones is that the DIN range is kinda high for me - 5-12. Right now, I measure at a 6.5 DIN, but (cards on the table here), I turn 50 in 2 years, and my DIN will go down to 5.5 - and is that bad to be that close to the bottom of the range?

Any comparison/advice info folks have on these bindings? I do like that the Dynafit site has a lifetime guarantee. It looks like Fritschi has 2 years. Thanks!

 

[laine]

Oh, the Fritschi binding that was on the demo ski was the Techton 12 - which is also on sale. Also a potential option. I wasn't sure it would work with my boot, but it has some kind of heel-locking mechanism that held really well. Actually felt pretty similar to an alpine binding.

Demo-ing again this coming weekend, so will be eager to see what bindings are on the skis. I just figured I'd ask here, in case there were some strong opinions one way or another.

 

[Rod9301]

You should look at the Salomon mtn, the most bomber out there and light.

 

[laine]

@Rod9301 - that’s starting to go a bit higher than I’d like to spend. Was hoping to stay around $450, which is already nuts in my head compared with what I paid for my last pair of alpine bindings ($150 for Attack 13 on sale).

 

[Philpug]

@Rod9301 - that’s starting to go a bit higher than I’d like to spend. Was hoping to stay around $450, which is already nuts in my head compared with what I paid for my last pair of alpine bindings ($150 for Attack 13 on sale).

With tech bindings, the more you spend, the less you get.

 

[Analisa]

The other thing I'd check with the Fritschis is the "toe jam." The speed nose sits more forward in the binding and can bump into the toe locks. (But might be worth it for the alpine style heel - I didn't realize there was enough off the back for the Tecton to clamp). Fritschi also comes with independent front prongs for a better lateral release.

Dynafit tends to be a little less finicky to get in and out of, and that 10 year warranty has been pretty clutch for me (however, someone already enlightened on alpine gear who doesn't put 100+ days on them inbounds might not benefit from that as much).

 

[laine]

Thanks @Analisa - good to know, especially since I have a Hoji boot with a speed nose.

Looks like the Dynafit Rotation 10 will be the winner here.

 

[Primoz]

I was changing bindings on my middle touring/powder skis earlier this year, and ended up with Dynafit Speed turn (ok Look ST, as I need to be on Rossi). Other option was Dynafit Rotation (Look version of course) but went with Speed turn on end, as it's half the weight, and I somehow decided for powder skis din 10 should do, even though all other skis are set way beyond this. And until now I didn't regret this decision yet. Skis are super light, and skiing is just as good. For now, I don't miss no breaks either, I still didn't lose ski yet, but you need to be a bit careful during transitions.
One more good thing of Speed turn if you need to pay for bindings (luckily I don't ) , it's half the price of Rotation.

 

[Winks]

@Rod9301 - that’s starting to go a bit higher than I’d like to spend. Was hoping to stay around $450, which is already nuts in my head compared with what I paid for my last pair of alpine bindings ($150 for Attack 13 on sale).

One thing about backcountry/touring gear is that it is not cheap. I tell most of my customers to be prepared to spend double on touring gear compared to alpine. Skis, boots and bindings can easily get into the multiple thousands and we haven't even started talking about safety and the essentials that you need to have.

 

[zag]

The one concern I have with the Fritschi Evo ones is that the DIN range is kinda high for me - 5-12. Right now, I measure at a 6.5 DIN, but (cards on the table here), I turn 50 in 2 years, and my DIN will go down to 5.5 - and is that bad to be that close to the bottom of the range?

Although the manufacturer suggest you down your settings at 50 it is not a must.

Often if off-piste you tend to turn your settings higher than your on mountain numbers as the danger u encounter of loosing a ski exceeds the danger of injury preventing.

Do you have really long feet or are you super lightweight? What skier type are you selecting that results in 6.5 DIN?

Are you planning on using these inbounds downhill primarily? The answers to these would help guide you to the best choice.

Between the two bindings in personal experience I can't help as I am a frame bindings user for a couple of reasons though looking to move to the Shifts next season but need new tour only boots first.

 

[laine]

Although the manufacturer suggest you down your settings at 50 it is not a must.

Often if off-piste you tend to turn your settings higher than your on mountain numbers as the danger u encounter of loosing a ski exceeds the danger of injury preventing.

Do you have really long feet or are you super lightweight? What skier type are you selecting that results in 6.5 DIN?

Are you planning on using these inbounds downhill primarily? The answers to these would help guide you to the best choice.

Between the two bindings in personal experience I can't help as I am a frame bindings user for a couple of reasons though looking to move to the Shifts next season but need new tour only boots first.

@zag - Thanks for the info - I calculated my DIN setting here: http://www.dinsetting.com/
Skier Weight - 108-125
Skier Height - 5'1"
Skier Age - 47
Skier Type - III
Boot Sole Length - 261 (so definitely not long feet - though this has the Dynafit speed nose, so it is shorter)

Use will be primarily touring - I have separate boots and skis for downhill. There is some touring off Sugar Bowl, so I might take them to the resort every now and then - but it would likely be the exception.

 

[Rainbow Jenny]

I have both Techton 12 (on Voile Vector BC that I use in Tahoe) and Vipec Evo 12, haven’t ski them on Armada VJJ yet, taking and leaving them in Sapporo on the next trip. I like Fritchi way better than Dynafit (don’t remember which model, maybe 7-8 years back) since I can use my pole to transition without bending down to twist the heel piece. So much quicker. I go from walk to ski mode, then remove my skins in minimal time.

Vector BC is perfect for the rollers I do.

 

[zag]

@zag - Thanks for the info - I calculated my DIN setting here: http://www.dinsetting.com/
Skier Weight - 108-125
Skier Height - 5'1"
Skier Age - 47
Skier Type - III
Boot Sole Length - 261

You'd fall in the lighterweight and shorter category which explains the low DINs.

In this case, Looking at the minimum supported DINs is a valid way to shop the two, especially on pin toes, as pin toes aren't really certified as true DINs, they are close equivalents.

 

[jmeb]

The most important difference between something like the Rotation and the vipec is the fact the Vipec has lateral toe release. Except the Vipec/Tecton & Shift, all other tech bindings have lateral release in the heel. Alpine bindings are specifically designed with lateral toe release because it reduces the likelihood of tib/fib factures. Lateral release in the heel theoretically reduces likelihood of blown knees (which is why the Knee binding has lateral release in the heel.) In the backcountry, a tib/fib fracture is a potentially life threatening injury. A blown knee sucks but it won't kill you.

Now -- I'll be the first to admit we don't have good epidemiological data on incident of two types of injuries across various bindings. But it certainly gives me some additional confidence knowing it was designed with a similar release pattern as an alpine binding.

Other additional goodness of the Vipec is the quick ski to tour mode if you hit flat spots, and their is a bit of toe elasticity which increases the feeling of dampness on harder snow. (Yes, I have skied Dynafit toes and Vipecs on hard pack a good bit.)

I don't see any real advantage of the Rotation over the Vipec except the nice 10-year Dynafit warranty. You can go down to the Speed Turn to save weight and money, but it doesn't ski quite as well as either Rotation/Vipec because of the gap between the heel.

IMHO:

- Weight no issue, skiability and safety key: Tecton
- Skiability and safety main priorities: Vipec
- Care about having awesome warranty support, good skiing, and okay with weight penalty: Rotation
- Want a cheap, uber reliable binding with good warranty: Speed Turn
- Want lightweight, reliable binding that skis a bit better than Speed turn: Salomon MTN.

 

[laine]

Interesting. The more I research, the more confused I get. Now I'm lost and stuck in analysis paralysis. I've been looking for binding advice on this site, on Ski Diva (curious what other women use) and in the FB SF Backcountry group (curious what people in Tahoe use).

I'm all over the place. I know I want something with a brake because that's what I know and am comfortable with. Thought I was gonna go with the Dynafit Rotation 10. I skied the Tecton on a demo ski, but apparently there can be issues with using them with Dynafit boots with a speed nose (which I have), and they seem like more binding than I need since this will be primarily a touring-only setup.

Next I got several strong recommendations for the Salomon MTN with brake as a lightweight, good-skiing binding for a dedicated touring setup. But that only has three release settings. And today I learned that with both the Rotation 10 and MTN have a higher ramp angle - which is exaggerated on a 261 BSL boot. Then today, I decided to reach out to a couple touring-specific retailers to chat about binding options and the one option that sounds most intriguing is the Hagen Pure 8/ATK Crest 8 - https://www.haganskimountaineering.com/products/pure-8-binding / https://www.atkbindings.com/en/prodotto/bindings/touring-en/crest-8-en/.

I had never heard of Hagan or ATK before, but apparently they've been around for a while in Europe? But I'm now interested in a binding that I know nothing about except what the guy at Skimo.co told me and what I read on the website. It's lightweight, has DIN settings from 3-8 (good range for me), has a very low ramp angle (almost flat), has a brake, and has elasticity in the heel. Am I missing something?

--

Oh, and now I'm confused again about skis. In chatting with the Skimo guy, he asked why I was looking at/demo-ing resort skis that work in the backcountry vs. actual backcountry skis. He recommended the Blizzard Zero G, the Salomon MTN Explore 88, and the Movement Session 89 (for which I think they are the only US distributor), which are all lighter than the ones on my list. But that's a whole separate indecision.

 

[zag]

I would strongly advise if you have a Dynafit boot and one of their bindings you're looking at that checks most of your desires, go with that one.

Not from direct personal experience but Dynafit has a rep for being sometimes only 100% compatible with their own bindings more than any other boot oem.

But yes, buying AT gear can be really overwhelming, but that is because it is inherently personal. Some people obsess over weight or release or brand but in the end it is all what works best for you. Just like ski buying, except with more consequences!

 

[zag]

Hagen is a good brand, have fam who still tours on their 10+ year old skis (but with Fritschi frames).

Would be hesitant to advise someone on their first setup to go as boutique or rare as ATK is in USA for first pin tour (edit) bindings. Hagen skis, sure but maybe stick with something more mainstream available for bindings.

As for skis, what ski were you planning on using?

Skimo.com staff are certainly experts in their specialty but sometimes they might go too much for a intro setup. Do you plan to tour daily or 60% of the time on these skis?

 

[jmeb]

ATK bindings are awesomely built -- very good alternative to the Dynafit offerings or Salomon MTN (which is a u-pin based and therefore not as adjustable in release and potentially impacted by wear at a quicker rate.) You can get ATK products with warranty support in the US via Hagan or via Black Diamond (it's Helio series is rebranded ATK.)

Do not confuse some travel in the heel with elasticity -- it's a misnomer (kind of like Dynafit claiming "elasticity" in the toe of the rotation which it does not have in the traditional sense.) What "elasticity" in the heel of the Crest means is the heel has some forward/backwards travel to accomodate for ski flex therefore not requiring a gap between the heel tower and the heel of the boot. It is not elasticity you get in an alpine heel (or Kingping/Tecton) which allows the boot to move vertically up prior to releasing. This gapless design creates a more powerful skiing feeling than floating heel designs like the Speed Turn/Radical (and to a lesser extend the Salomon Mtn). Such gapless design are found on many tech binding heels including: Vipec, Xenic, G3 Ion/Zed, Rotation, many ATK, Marker Alpinist,

 

[Ken_R]

Interesting. The more I research, the more confused I get. Now I'm lost and stuck in analysis paralysis. I've been looking for binding advice on this site, on Ski Diva (curious what other women use) and in the FB SF Backcountry group (curious what people in Tahoe use).

I'm all over the place. I know I want something with a brake because that's what I know and am comfortable with. Thought I was gonna go with the Dynafit Rotation 10. I skied the Tecton on a demo ski, but apparently there can be issues with using them with Dynafit boots with a speed nose (which I have), and they seem like more binding than I need since this will be primarily a touring-only setup.

Next I got several strong recommendations for the Salomon MTN with brake as a lightweight, good-skiing binding for a dedicated touring setup. But that only has three release settings. And today I learned that with both the Rotation 10 and MTN have a higher ramp angle - which is exaggerated on a 261 BSL boot. Then today, I decided to reach out to a couple touring-specific retailers to chat about binding options and the one option that sounds most intriguing is the Hagen Pure 8/ATK Crest 8 - https://www.haganskimountaineering.com/products/pure-8-binding / https://www.atkbindings.com/en/prodotto/bindings/touring-en/crest-8-en/.

I had never heard of Hagan or ATK before, but apparently they've been around for a while in Europe? But I'm now interested in a binding that I know nothing about except what the guy at Skimo.co told me and what I read on the website. It's lightweight, has DIN settings from 3-8 (good range for me), has a very low ramp angle (almost flat), has a brake, and has elasticity in the heel. Am I missing something?

--

Oh, and now I'm confused again about skis. In chatting with the Skimo guy, he asked why I was looking at/demo-ing resort skis that work in the backcountry vs. actual backcountry skis. He recommended the Blizzard Zero G, the Salomon MTN Explore 88, and the Movement Session 89 (for which I think they are the only US distributor), which are all lighter than the ones on my list. But that's a whole separate indecision.

Get the Rotation 10's. Dont worry so much. They are excellent bindings, they ski great, are reliable, easy to use and have a great warranty. They wont feel as far off from an alpine binding as say a Speed Rad, Hagan/ATK, Salomon MTN et. al. You will have zero compatibility issues with your boots.

 

[jmeb]

They wont feel as far off from an alpine binding as say a Speed Rad, Hagan/ATK, Salomon MTN et. al.

I agree with the Speed rad, and to a lesser extent the MTN.

But depending on which ATK they choose I'd disagree. I got ski both the Crest and ATK freeraider last year and both ski just as well as the Rotation.