Binding Adjustment Needed After Small BSL Change?

Discussion in 'Tuning Techniques and Tool Information' started by Willyum215, Oct 22, 2018.

  1. Willyum215

    Willyum215 Putting on skis Skier

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    Happy Monday All,

    Quick question: I'm going down from a 308 to a 306 BSL. With this small of a change, is it necessary to make any adjustments to the bindings? My gut says yes, but wasn't sure if it was necessary with such a small change.

    Specific bindings that may need adjustment are Attack 13's and slightly older Salomon Z-12s (2013/2014).

    Thanks!
     
  2. Philpug

    Philpug Enjoying being back on two skis. Admin Pugski Ski Tester

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    Remember, the metric system is a subjective unit of measurement, one brands 308 is anothers 306....or vice versa. Put the boot in the binding and check the forward pressure on the rear (the scribed area of the tab should be about 1/2 visible), if not enough, move it up on click, check again. With just two mm, it should be fine though.
     
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  3. Thread Starter
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    Willyum215

    Willyum215 Putting on skis Skier

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    great - thanks for the quick reply as always @Philpug !
     
  4. Eleeski

    Eleeski Out on the slopes Skier

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    The metric system is not at all subjective! Measurements in the metric system are accurate and repeatable. And less prone to error than "English" units due to the decimal counting (is a 32nd more or less than a 64th?).

    2mm is less than a tenth of an inch (if that's easier to visualize?!). Within measurement errors and wear changes to the sole. Your new 306 might measure longer than an old 308 (as Phil said) (but the tape will not change). Note that bindings need to handle snow and other variations so binding set tolerances are wide. You certainly need to check the fit in your bindings but readjustment might not be necessary.

    Eric
     
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    Willyum215

    Willyum215 Putting on skis Skier

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    Thanks Eric - that does help me visualize the size difference we are talking about.

    I'm sticking with the same boot brand, which should help with some discrepancy I would imagine.

    I'll click them in, check the tabs on the heel piece, and also give them a visual check within the binding.
     


  6. Philpug

    Philpug Enjoying being back on two skis. Admin Pugski Ski Tester

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    Put your foot in four 100MM boots and tell me they are all the same ;)
     
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  7. Eleeski

    Eleeski Out on the slopes Skier

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    Metric illiteracy!

    No way can I get my 280mm long foot in a 100mm boot!

    A long cigarette is 100mm.
    A fingernail is about 1cm wide.
    A foot is about 300mm (30 cm - see how cool that is).
    A yard is about a meter.
    Zero is the freezing point of water.
    100c is the boiling point of water.
    50c is ridiculously hot but my desert gets there a couple days.
    Minus 39 is the same C or F.

    Manufacturers use different measuring techniques. Do you measure a ski from tip to tail on the top or bottom? Makes a big difference. Do you measure the average of any curves on the lugs or the longest possible. Volume can make two boots of the same length (or width) feel quite different. Boot manufacturers might measure the size of the mold but variations in the plastics can make the numbers printed on the boot inaccurate (we had lots of ways to adjust the part dimensions of an injection molded part - like a boot).

    I do agree with Phil, don't take manufacturer's sizes as gospel. Check it in the real world.

    Eric
     
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  8. François Pugh

    François Pugh Out on the slopes Skier

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    Put the boot in the binding. Check the forward pressure. If it needs to be adjusted, adjust it. I bet it won't need any adjustments.
     
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  9. dbostedo

    dbostedo Asst. Gathermeister--Big Sky Team Gathermeister

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    I don't know where you get this crap! -40 is the same in C or F... -39 C is -38.2 F ... I'd think a metric expert would know that! ;):D
     
  10. François Pugh

    François Pugh Out on the slopes Skier

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    0 Fahrenheit is the freezing point of brine, just say'n.

    32 F is the freezing point of water 212 F is the boiling point of water. (180 F between freezing and boiling water)
    0 C is the freezing point of water, 100 C is the boiling point of water. (100 C between freezing and boiling water)

    Therefore degrees F above freezing water (degrees F-32 F) times 100 C/180 F = degrees C
    or (degrees C) *180 F/100C +32F = degrees F.
    -40C = -40 F

    Simple.
     
  11. KingGrump

    KingGrump Most Interesting Man In The World Team Gathermeister

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  12. Lorenzzo

    Lorenzzo Snow Skier Skier

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    Is this true at ski resort altitudes?
     
  13. dbostedo

    dbostedo Asst. Gathermeister--Big Sky Team Gathermeister

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    The boiling point of water changes with altitude (really it changes based on atmospheric pressure), but the relationship between Fahrenheit and Celsius doesn't. The boiling point of water, for instance, at 10,000 feet altitude is approximately 194 degrees F, or 90 degrees C. Doesn't change the fact that -40 is the same on either scale. The freezing point of water changes very slightly with altitude too, but you won't notice it.
     
  14. François Pugh

    François Pugh Out on the slopes Skier

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    Yes. The statements are true; they refer to boiling and freezing "points" defined at standard pressure. and the conversion x9/5 + 32 is accurate at any altitude.
    The boiling temperature of water will decrease with altitude, however. Therefore you can't make a good cup of tea on top of Mount Everest.
    "As atmospheric pressure decreases, water boils at lower temperatures. At sea level, water boils at 212 °F. With each 500-feet increase in elevation, the boiling point of water is lowered by just under 1 °F. At 7,500 feet, for example, water boils at about 198 °F. Because water boils at a lower temperature at higher elevations, foods that are prepared by boiling or simmering will cook at a lower temperature, and it will take longer to cook." https://www.fsis.usda.gov/shared/PDF/High_Altitude_Cooking_and_Food_Safety.pdf
     
  15. Lorenzzo

    Lorenzzo Snow Skier Skier

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    But then there is an assumption as to pressure. Absent that it's NOT simple. And since we're talking about skiing here standard may be less relevant.
     
  16. Philpug

    Philpug Enjoying being back on two skis. Admin Pugski Ski Tester

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  17. KingGrump

    KingGrump Most Interesting Man In The World Team Gathermeister

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    I guess that good in math Asian gene just blew by me. :D
     
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  18. Eleeski

    Eleeski Out on the slopes Skier

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    Actually, -39f = -39.44c which rounds to 39! Maybe 40 is a better match but to 2 significant figures, 39 works.

    We were discussing whether a binding reset would be necessary for a 2mm change. Real world variations and tolerances don't go to massive numbers of significant figures. And -39 feels just as cold as -40. F-ing cold!

    And I'm not a metric expert, just an engineer who is too lazy to keep track of whacky Imperial units.

    Eric
     
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  19. François Pugh

    François Pugh Out on the slopes Skier

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    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
  20. dbostedo

    dbostedo Asst. Gathermeister--Big Sky Team Gathermeister

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    Fair enough, but since -40 doesn't require rounding, is a more "prominent" number (a mutliple of 10), and easier to use as a rule of thumb, why not use it? I mean, you can round to say -39 F = -39 C, but you can't do that to say that -39 C = -39 F...

    -39 C = -38.2 F
    -39 F = -39.4 C (that's rounded, the 4 is repeating forever)
    -40 C = -40 F with no rounding needed
     
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