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dbostedo

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I’m psyching myself up for my first trip to Big Sky, in February. I was looking at the trail maps and they have a trail type I’ve never seen before: a triple black-diamond with a red outline. The map key says these runs are “high exposure.” What does this term mean? They’re clearly the hardest runs in the resort. Is this exposure to intense winds-weather?
Exposure in this case refers to exposure to rocks or cliffs, and steep enough that you may not be able to stop if you fall. So they may be a "no fall zone" where you need to be aware of the risk/danger - the exposure to a long fall or injury.

Several folks at last years Gathering skied Big Coulior, which is one of these slopes and is well known. You have to check in with patrol, as they control the skiing of it. You can read more here:

https://www.pugski.com/threads/stoke-for-the-big-couloir.11322/
https://www.pugski.com/threads/the-next-generation-of-egans-is-ready-for-launch.14915/
 

mdf

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Several folks at last years Gathering skied Big Coulior, which is one of these slopes and is well known. You have to check in with patrol, as they control the skiing of it. You can read more here:

https://www.pugski.com/threads/stoke-for-the-big-couloir.11322/
https://www.pugski.com/threads/the-next-generation-of-egans-is-ready-for-launch.14915/
So far as I know, "several" = 4.
I was going to be hurt that you didn't link to our run, then I discovered how difficult it was to find:
https://www.pugski.com/threads/big-sky-gathering-trip-report.14285/page-8#post-333140

A couple posts after that I show the Pugski sticker I pasted at the check-in shack.
 

dbostedo

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I was going to be hurt that you didn't link to our run, then I discovered how difficult it was to find...

Yeah, I did take a quick look... but since it wasn't in its own thread, I didn't find it, and I couldn't remember for sure if you had posted anything about it. Thanks for tracking it down.
 

RollingLeaf

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@KingGrump and @dbostedo Big Sky recently mentioned their new triple-black-diamond trail map rating in their blog.

https://blog.bigskyresort.com/big-sky-resort-introduces-triple-black-diamond-trail-rating/

Instead of saying outright, "if you fall, you die", they refer to these runs as "high consequence terrain." I get the idea, but one of my favorite videos of people skiing the triple-black-diamond at Big Sky, is of a 12-year-old girl who hits the Big Couloir with relative ease. My thinking was if someone that young can do it, then so can I. Although she might just be the next Mikaela Shiffrin.

 

mdf

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So that's what it looks like!

Just kidding, I watched a lot of these videos back home before our trip.

We had good snow but bad visibility. I was pretty tense and freaked out, but it was easier than I expected. (It's not something you can just hack your way down, though.)
I think @Skisailor had some "if you can ski X you can ski the Big" comparisons in the stoke thread.
Seems like a reasonable way to self-evaluate. Or get an instructor's opinion.
 

tch

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Looking at the video of Elise, the approach looks a lot more demanding than the actual couloir!
 

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My thinking was if someone that young can do it, then so can I.

That is a good line to get your a** in deep trouble.
Never compare yourself to others. Rather ask yourself the question, "What are the consequences if I fall and can I live with them?" You are the only one that can answer those questions.
I have seen peer pressure and false bravado at work on top of many steep runs. Some are there so they can check off a box. Results varies. You are the only one on your skis.

Do not judge a skier's ability by their age. I am a decent skier but my son blew past me when he was 13. Been looking at his back side since then.

If I sounded harsh, it is an effort to keep other skiers from getting injured.

BTW, she is at the edge of her performance envelope from a technical stand point. Different days may yield different outcomes.
 

mdf

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Looking at the video of Elise, the approach looks a lot more demanding than the actual couloir!

The approach was wider (or at least seemed that way) when we were there, making it a bit easier. I've seen other vids where it was even narrower, making it harder to keep your tips out of the rocks. I was glad to have seen video, because (with our low vis) it would not have been obvious what to do otherwise.
After a bit of sketchy side-slipping on the approach, I told myself, "this is stupid -- just ski the thing, you know it doesn't have any sudden turns or drops."

That is a good line to get your a** in deep trouble.
Never compare yourself to others. Rather ask yourself the question, "What are the consequences if I fall and can I live with them?" You are the only one that can answer those questions.
I have seen peer pressure and false bravado at work on top of many steep runs. Some are there so they can check off a box. Results varies. You are the only one on your skis.

I agree. I have never seen you ski. Look up the skisailor assessment "plan" in last-year's stoke thread.
There were some really steep spots, where if you lean into the hill and lost your edge you would be in trouble.
I did put my uphill hand down once, and had to remind myself to get back out over my edges.

BTW, she is at the edge of her performance envelope from a technical stand point. Different days may yield different outcomes.
Agree with this too.
 

SnowbirdDevotee

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Looking at the video of Elise, the approach looks a lot more demanding than the actual couloir!

Nice run with good skiing, but is it really a triple with high exposure? sometimes it's hard to tell on a video. nice and wide couloir, no hop turns necessary.
 

mdf

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Nice run with good skiing, but is it really a triple with high exposure? sometimes it's hard to tell on a video. nice and wide couloir, no hop turns necessary.
It doesn't really have classical exposure. The risk is a long steep pitch where a fall would have you going really fast by the time you hit the rocks at the dogleg. In a good snow year it is plenty wide.

I'm pretty sure the headwaters or AZ chutes are more technically challenging.
 

Skisailor

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Looking at the video of Elise, the approach looks a lot more demanding than the actual couloir!

Ha! Yes. A bit deceiving though. The approach is narrow but a very shallow pitch. Once you drop in you are instantly in a 45 degree pitch. Then after a few turns it gets even steeper and narrower. Elise is just starting to approach the tough part when you can’t quite see her anymore. Also - conditions matter a lot. The conditions in the video are about the best you will ever see - the couloir is all filled in and at its widest. The “cheese grater” rock is burried and the snow looks soft and relatively smooth.
 

dbostedo

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Ha! Yes. A bit deceiving though. The approach is narrow but a very shallow pitch. Once you drop in you are instantly in a 45 degree pitch. Then after a few turns it gets even steeper and narrower. Elise is just starting to approach the tough part when you can’t quite see her anymore. Also - conditions matter a lot. The conditions in the video are about the best you will ever see - the couloir is all filled in and at its widest. The “cheese grater” rock is burried and the snow looks soft and relatively smooth.

For reference, here's the Caltopo profile for Big Couloir. On the line I picked, it maxes out at 58 degrees :eek:. Other lines drawn are a little higher or lower, but actual snow and line and wind loading will affect this :

upload_2019-11-17_9-31-56.png
 
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skidrew

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I’m psyching myself up for my first trip to Big Sky, in February. I was looking at the trail maps and they have a trail type I’ve never seen before: a triple black-diamond with a red outline. The map key says these runs are “high exposure.” What does this term mean? They’re clearly the hardest runs in the resort. Is this exposure to intense winds-weather?

FWIW, that notation is new this year. Prior years those trails were double black. Wonder if the lawyers got on them?ogsmile
 

Talisman

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The additional Flat Iron lifthas the haul rope and communications cable pulled. It will be interesting to see if the rest of the work and load test will be completed before the bolus of guests arrive at the end of December.
Haul Rope FI JPG.JPG
 

Lift Blog

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The additional Flat Iron lifthas the haul rope and communications cable pulled. It will be interesting to see if the rest of the work and load test will be completed before the bolus of guests arrive at the end of December.
View attachment 84838
I was told last week all Doppelmayr lifts nationwide are expected to be completed before Christmas this year.
 
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skidrew

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I was told last week all Doppelmayr lifts nationwide are expected to be completed before Christmas this year.

It's also showing on their new (19/20) trail map - HIghlands 3.

(Ah, now I see that Lift Blog pointed this out on, well, liftblog last Friday).
 

dbostedo

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Madison 3 to Madison base.

OK... so I looked at this on the map again. It's a lift from nowhere to the Madison Base. Is this just planning ahead for more housing development in that area? (Or is Google maps really out of date, and there's already housing there?)
 
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