Best wax scraper sharpening technique

[Jacques]

BE sure you press it tight against the back wall of the channel as you move the scrapper through. I make sure I have it pushed tight and well situated before moving it over the cutter. Let us know how it goes!


Watch this guy run the scraper

A dull scraper removes base material when used in a rushed fashion? Hmmm........?
How could that be? Maybe because of highs and lows in the dull scraper? The highs would scrape too much?
So using plastic scrapers is a disadvantage in that case. Glad I stick with the steel. My steel stays true for a very, very long time.

 

[cantunamunch]

A dull scraper removes base material when used in a rushed fashion? Hmmm........?
How could that be? Maybe because of highs and lows in the dull scraper? The highs would scrape too much?.

Not exactly. Someone using a dull scraper is very likely to have one of two things happen:

- skipping and hopping. Skipping up over a wax blob is no big deal but when the scraper drops back onto the ski it's likely to gouge.

- larger force than normal, compensating for the bad peeling action. This is very likely to bend the center of the scraper into the ski.

The material of the scraper doesn't really enter into it - as is proven daily by every person who nicks themselves shaving with a dull razor.

 

[Doug Briggs]

I have found it virtually impossible to damage a ski's base with a plexi scraper. Not that I've tried, but in all the 100s (1,000s?) of skis I've scraped, I haven't noticed damage to the ski regardless of how sharp or not the scraper is.

 

[Jacques]

Not exactly. Someone using a dull scraper is very likely to have one of two things happen:

- skipping and hopping. Skipping up over a wax blob is no big deal but when the scraper drops back onto the ski it's likely to gouge.

- larger force than normal, compensating for the bad peeling action. This is very likely to bend the center of the scraper into the ski.

The material of the scraper doesn't really enter into it - as is proven daily by every person who nicks themselves shaving with a dull razor.

Then it must be sharp if it's going to gouge.
It takes me several passes to remove my waxes. This is because my wax scraper is not very sharp at all. It is true though.
I certainly don't remove base more than maybe a microscopic amount that you would not perceive with your eyes.

 

[Jacques]

I have found it virtually impossible to damage a ski's base with a plexi scraper. Not that I've tried, but in all the 100s (1,000s?) of skis I've scraped, I haven't noticed damage to the ski regardless of how sharp or not the scraper is.

Watch this very closely to the end. Before the end as well.

 

[Sibhusky]

Now my German is not up to spontaneous translation, it is more of the reading variety. But I got the impression he was saying only use the brush one direction because otherwise you're raising up hairs on the ski which will slow it down. To demonstrate the hairs he used the scraper to show what happened after using the brush back and forth. Then after that he uses it unidirectionally. My impression (maybe @Primoz can help here, I'm hoping Slovenians also speak German in addition to English) was this was about brushing, not scraping. Because personally I became alarmed when he started scrubbing with the brush.

 

[Doug Briggs]

Watch this very closely to the end. Before the end as well.

As I don't speak German, I don't know what he was demonstrating. I defer to @Sibhusky for her interpretation. Certainly a plastic scraper can pull out the hairs in a fresh base grind. I've seen that myself but the hairs that come out should come out as they are byproduct not desired outcome of a base grind.

 

[Sibhusky]

I didn't endlessly rewind things to catch it, so not sure you should defer to me.

 

[Doug Briggs]

I didn't endlessly rewind things to catch it, so not sure you should defer to me.

You know a little German. I know none. I guess we'll have to wait for a German speaker to translate for us.

 

[Jacques]

As I don't speak German, I don't know what he was demonstrating. I defer to @Sibhusky for her interpretation. Certainly a plastic scraper can pull out the hairs in a fresh base grind. I've seen that myself but the hairs that come out should come out as they are byproduct not desired outcome of a base grind.

IDK, but that looks like more than hair pulling. That plastic was doing some serious de-fanging right there. For at least three passes you can see the base material being scraped away.
I'm not saying it was a bad thing, just that folks seem to be afraid of steel, yet want their plastic sharp as a razor.
Others say they only use plastic as they don't want to be removing structure.

Edit: If I remember, I'll have my German friend see the video and tell me all about it.
Seem shaving the base a bit was what he was trying to show........using PLASTIC.
Oh one more: I did the CC to english, but it's gets lost and strange.

 

[NPhoenix]

and there is also the other cheap mechanical method I have used (Caution, definitely not OSHA approved!) Get an electric plane (~$20 from Harbor Freight), secure it upside down on the bench and then run the scrapers though it....

I have one of those. Good idea and probably wouldn't be too hard to make a guide for it.

 

[Steve]

You know a little German. I know none .

I knew a little German too. Dated her when I was in College.


OK she was actually Swedish.

 

[CalG]

IDK, but that looks like more than hair pulling. That plastic was doing some serious de-fanging right there. For at least three passes you can see the base material being scraped away.
I'm not saying it was a bad thing, just that folks seem to be afraid of steel, yet want their plastic sharp as a razor.
Others say they only use plastic as they don't want to be removing structure.

Edit: If I remember, I'll have my German friend see the video and tell me all about it.
Seem shaving the base a bit was what he was trying to show........using PLASTIC.
Oh one more: I did the CC to english, but it's gets lost and strange.

Just a small deviation to the topic.

I find myself most wanting of, and critical of the scraper edge keenness when doing a hot scrape cleaning.
This might follow a base repair or just a major bottom flattening and rejuvenation. I WANT the plastic scraper to cut plastic! Those nasty "body hairs". ;-)

For scraping after a waxing, I really could care less. As long as there is insufficient wax on the base to cause drag, I'm happy! And as my needs are never "ultimate", I can get along fine with a little extra wax on the ski base if it saves three more passes with the scraper.

Heck, putting on "structure" with a wire brush, a bit of wax shows the fine intent and effort ....

Better being the mortal enemy of good enough...and all that. ;-)

 

[Sibhusky]

If there's a bit of ptex that needs cutting, I've got one of these: https://www.racewax.com/sks-base-planer-true-bar-for-skis/

Mine is green, though.

Also one of these. Both have a cutting option.

 

[CalG]

If there's a bit of ptex that needs cutting, I've got one of these: https://www.racewax.com/sks-base-planer-true-bar-for-skis/

Mine is green, though.

Also one of these. Both have a cutting option.

View attachment 58637

The well sharpened plexi-glas scraper is the one chosen AFTER those more aggressive tools are returned to the tool box.

 

[Primoz]

But I got the impression he was saying only use the brush one direction because otherwise you're raising up hairs on the ski which will slow it down. To demonstrate the hairs he used the scraper to show what happened after using the brush back and forth. Then after that he uses it unidirectionally. My impression (maybe @Primoz can help here, I'm hoping Slovenians also speak German in addition to English) was this was about brushing, not scraping.

It's about preparation of new skis and what to do with brush. Pretty surprisingly for alpine serviceman, but very normal for xc guy... never ever brush from tail to tip, as he said "it's death for fast ski" In xc that's normal thing, with alpine, whole bunch of people still brush any direction they feel. That "shaving off base" is normal thing with new ski, when even if stone grounded, it still has pretty good amount of "hair". You brush against the ski (from tail to tip) to get them stand up and then shave them off with scraper.
And unrelated to video, yes you can damage ski with plastic scraper. Ptex is way softer then plexi so if you do it bad, you can easily end up with damaged base. Another thing, which is more problematic on xc skis then on alpine, as skis are more narrow, and base under ptex is way more sensitive, you can actually make base concave or convex after several scrapings if you hold/push scraper wrong. So there are actually several ways to damage ptex with plastic scraper (not going into why metal scraper is way worse option )

 

[Sibhusky]

So, on new skis, he's recommending this scrubbing back and forth action in order to raise hairs for removal?

 

[Primoz]

Yeah but that's pretty much one time only thing, during preparation of ski, when you do endless cycles of waxing and scraping.

 

[Swiss Toni]

As Primoz said he’s demonstrating the first step in the preparation of a new ski after stone grinding. He’s using a red HF wax that has been formulated to his recipe, an 8 mm scraper and a new bronze brush that has been made to his specifications. The idea is to raise and cut off the hairs left after stone grinding.

After this he carries out numerous waxing, scraping and brushing cycles in order to make the ski fast. Brushing with a metal brush is thought to create a carpet of microscopic fluff on the base of the ski which holds most of the wax, the more cycles you do the more wax it holds and the faster it gets. This fluff is not to be confused with the hairs that you get after stone grinding which are 100 times longer. You have to be very careful if you use a roto brush as the heat generated can destroy the fluff.

For racing he scrapes more of the wax off and only brushes the ski from tip to tail using a broken in brush, a new brush is too aggressive for use on a race ski. He has posted more detailed instructions under “Tuning Tipps” on his web site https://www.waxmeister.com/racing-bearbeiten-des-belages-und-saettigen-mit-wax-2/

 

[Jacques]

Just a small deviation to the topic.

I find myself most wanting of, and critical of the scraper edge keenness when doing a hot scrape cleaning.
This might follow a base repair or just a major bottom flattening and rejuvenation. I WANT the plastic scraper to cut plastic! Those nasty "body hairs". ;-)

For scraping after a waxing, I really could care less. As long as there is insufficient wax on the base to cause drag, I'm happy! And as my needs are never "ultimate", I can get along fine with a little extra wax on the ski base if it saves three more passes with the scraper.

Heck, putting on "structure" with a wire brush, a bit of wax shows the fine intent and effort ....

Better being the mortal enemy of good enough...and all that. ;-)

Yes, if one does not scrape so well, then they need to brush much more.
Yes, to keep a base flatter one needs to shave off some base material.