I am curious to hear what people (skiers and instructors alike) have experienced in their best/favorite lessons and their worst/nightmare lessons. I know there must be some amazing stories out there if people are willing to share. Are there common threads for what makes really good lessons and really horrible lessons? Or perhaps things can't be boiled down into a best practices kind of deal because of the individual needs of the student(s). Are private lessons always better or would you rather learn/teach in a group? What do you think the resort/instructors can do to be more successful?
-
For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.
Best Lesson vs. Worst Lesson, are there common threads?
- Thread starter Kreative1
- Start date
- Joined
- May 13, 2017
- Posts
- 69
The worst lesson:
I mentioned my "worst" experience in another thread, but it fits the topic so perfectly that I will repeat it here.
It was a group lesson at one of major mountains on the East Coast. There was only one group for those who can ski and I was sent there. I was in a group with 2 other students - a girl who wanted to ski blues and a guy who taught himself to ski by watching youtube videos.
I ski better than that, but I'm not snobbish and know that fundamental movements remain the same, no matter what terrain and what learning environment. I was also curious about how people teach beginners, so I decided not to protest and just go with the flow and do what the instructor tells us to do.. I did not try to purposefully downgrade my skiing - I was copying the instructor and doing what I'm told, together with the rest of the group.
We skied a bit down an easy green run and were given an advice to stand up tall to start the turn. I did what I and received positive feedback that now I look much better and more comfortable.
Next advice we received was to extend the new outside leg and push against the ground. I did that too and other guys said that they now feel more comfortable.
By the end of the lesson he showed me how to stay on my edges to traverse across the hill on the way to carving.
It was bad on multiple levels.
- that a major mountain has such a minuscule ski school operation.
- that I was just taught at least 2 things that decent instructors in 3 different countries independently and in unison told me not to do (don't stand up, keep core tight, don't push). Things that I was taught as a beginner and that many years later I'm still trying to replace with better habits.
- that I could so easily pass as a beginner skier (of course, I blamed it all on the instructor, but what if maybe, just maybe, it's the truth
)
- that the other guys in the group were extremely happy with the lesson and in a post-lesson conversation were praising the instructor and discussing how valuable the lesson was.
The best lesson:
those are plenty. It can be a great instructor (teaching), a great instructor (personality), a great group (good skiers), a great group (fun to be around), great lunch break (food and wine), great progress, great snow, great advice, may other reasons.
The most memorable from this season was the lesson when I was told to "sit back a little bit" and "not to press on the front of my boots".. This was a great tip, it helped me a lot and I'm still working on it. This is a type of custom-tailored advice that makes lessons worth paying for. I laugh when I imagine a youtube ski tutorial saying "please stay in your backseat guys and you will ski great".
I mentioned my "worst" experience in another thread, but it fits the topic so perfectly that I will repeat it here.
It was a group lesson at one of major mountains on the East Coast. There was only one group for those who can ski and I was sent there. I was in a group with 2 other students - a girl who wanted to ski blues and a guy who taught himself to ski by watching youtube videos.
I ski better than that, but I'm not snobbish and know that fundamental movements remain the same, no matter what terrain and what learning environment. I was also curious about how people teach beginners, so I decided not to protest and just go with the flow and do what the instructor tells us to do.. I did not try to purposefully downgrade my skiing - I was copying the instructor and doing what I'm told, together with the rest of the group.
We skied a bit down an easy green run and were given an advice to stand up tall to start the turn. I did what I and received positive feedback that now I look much better and more comfortable.
Next advice we received was to extend the new outside leg and push against the ground. I did that too and other guys said that they now feel more comfortable.
By the end of the lesson he showed me how to stay on my edges to traverse across the hill on the way to carving.
It was bad on multiple levels.
- that a major mountain has such a minuscule ski school operation.
- that I was just taught at least 2 things that decent instructors in 3 different countries independently and in unison told me not to do (don't stand up, keep core tight, don't push). Things that I was taught as a beginner and that many years later I'm still trying to replace with better habits.
- that I could so easily pass as a beginner skier (of course, I blamed it all on the instructor, but what if maybe, just maybe, it's the truth
)- that the other guys in the group were extremely happy with the lesson and in a post-lesson conversation were praising the instructor and discussing how valuable the lesson was.
The best lesson:
those are plenty. It can be a great instructor (teaching), a great instructor (personality), a great group (good skiers), a great group (fun to be around), great lunch break (food and wine), great progress, great snow, great advice, may other reasons.
The most memorable from this season was the lesson when I was told to "sit back a little bit" and "not to press on the front of my boots".. This was a great tip, it helped me a lot and I'm still working on it. This is a type of custom-tailored advice that makes lessons worth paying for. I laugh when I imagine a youtube ski tutorial saying "please stay in your backseat guys and you will ski great".
I can give three "worst group lesson" experiences I experienced back before I became an instructor.
1. Large group lesson for supposedly "blue" skiers; maybe 6-7 students taught by middle-aged male instructor. The lowest level skier in our group was a 40ish female yoga instructor, long blonde hair hanging out below her helmet. You can guess the way that 1.5 hour lesson went. Instructor gave all his attention to the woman who was continually falling, laughing, and in need. He picked her up several times. I should have just skied off and complained at the ski school, dunno why I didn't. He wouldn't have noticed.
2. Large group lesson for 8 adults who knew each other and were enrolled in a seasonal Sunday morning program. Substitute instructor takes us for the 3-hour lesson since our usual leader is out sick. Our substitute is a former ski school director, LIII PSIA, retired at this point to line-up. He skis us around, stops and tells a skiing story from his past, then gives the group a drill focusing on Balance for one run. No feedback as we gather at the bottom. He skis us around again, no comments on our skiing, stops and tells another story, then gives us a drill focusing on Edging for one run. Again, no feedback. Repeat for Rotary and Pressure: ski around, stop and do a story, do a drill. No explanations are given why we are doing any of those drills, no explanation of what they are suposed to do for our skiing. He is not watching us ski. I think for one of the Big Four (BERP) he actually had us do two drills. At the end of the three hours (yes, he dragged it out that long with those stories) he summarizes that he's covered the Four Fundamentals - Balance, Edging, Rotary, and Pressure, and that if we find just one thing useful, then the lesson is a success. Just one thing! ... he says has been his goal. End of lesson. So why do I think this is an awful lesson? Nothing in it was geared directly to the skiing of anybody, and no one got any feedback on whether they did the drills well or not. He made no attempt to have us merge the things supposedly learned in the drills into our personal skiing. It was a canned lesson.
3. A three day camp, the group had 8 people, same instructor for the whole camp. For three days she leads us around and has us do drills without any explanation of what the drills are supposed to do for our skiing. No feedback to us an individual skiers. No MA for anybody. At some point on day three I asked her what she had found that made skiers happiest when they took lessons. She said they were happiest if the sun was shining, if they felt safe, and that if they learned something that was extra credit. Really? I did learn one thing during those three days. Another member of the group showed me how to do a kick turn, and I continually practiced it as our leader took us around the mountain (New England groomers).
Here's my generalization of what makes me think these were bad lessons: the teaching did not flow from the instructor's evaluation of our personal skiing. There was no individualized instruction going on for the group members (except for the yoga instructor), not even when there was plenty of time. No personal feedback. Drills are good, but skiers need to know why they are doing them and how doing them well will impact their skiing. And they absolutely need to know when they are screwing up the drill and when they are doing it as directed. Group lessons (as long as the size is not huge) do not prevent the instructor from giving personal attention to each skier, not even in short lessons.
1. Large group lesson for supposedly "blue" skiers; maybe 6-7 students taught by middle-aged male instructor. The lowest level skier in our group was a 40ish female yoga instructor, long blonde hair hanging out below her helmet. You can guess the way that 1.5 hour lesson went. Instructor gave all his attention to the woman who was continually falling, laughing, and in need. He picked her up several times. I should have just skied off and complained at the ski school, dunno why I didn't. He wouldn't have noticed.
2. Large group lesson for 8 adults who knew each other and were enrolled in a seasonal Sunday morning program. Substitute instructor takes us for the 3-hour lesson since our usual leader is out sick. Our substitute is a former ski school director, LIII PSIA, retired at this point to line-up. He skis us around, stops and tells a skiing story from his past, then gives the group a drill focusing on Balance for one run. No feedback as we gather at the bottom. He skis us around again, no comments on our skiing, stops and tells another story, then gives us a drill focusing on Edging for one run. Again, no feedback. Repeat for Rotary and Pressure: ski around, stop and do a story, do a drill. No explanations are given why we are doing any of those drills, no explanation of what they are suposed to do for our skiing. He is not watching us ski. I think for one of the Big Four (BERP) he actually had us do two drills. At the end of the three hours (yes, he dragged it out that long with those stories) he summarizes that he's covered the Four Fundamentals - Balance, Edging, Rotary, and Pressure, and that if we find just one thing useful, then the lesson is a success. Just one thing! ... he says has been his goal. End of lesson. So why do I think this is an awful lesson? Nothing in it was geared directly to the skiing of anybody, and no one got any feedback on whether they did the drills well or not. He made no attempt to have us merge the things supposedly learned in the drills into our personal skiing. It was a canned lesson.
3. A three day camp, the group had 8 people, same instructor for the whole camp. For three days she leads us around and has us do drills without any explanation of what the drills are supposed to do for our skiing. No feedback to us an individual skiers. No MA for anybody. At some point on day three I asked her what she had found that made skiers happiest when they took lessons. She said they were happiest if the sun was shining, if they felt safe, and that if they learned something that was extra credit. Really? I did learn one thing during those three days. Another member of the group showed me how to do a kick turn, and I continually practiced it as our leader took us around the mountain (New England groomers).
Here's my generalization of what makes me think these were bad lessons: the teaching did not flow from the instructor's evaluation of our personal skiing. There was no individualized instruction going on for the group members (except for the yoga instructor), not even when there was plenty of time. No personal feedback. Drills are good, but skiers need to know why they are doing them and how doing them well will impact their skiing. And they absolutely need to know when they are screwing up the drill and when they are doing it as directed. Group lessons (as long as the size is not huge) do not prevent the instructor from giving personal attention to each skier, not even in short lessons.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2015
- Posts
- 6,337
Best lesson - probably an afternoon with Moseley on one of those PR"ski with Jonny" things at Squaw. Not really a lesson - just a ski around while he progressively whittled the group down to a few of us capable of skiing bump lines on West Face. Some really good tips and really a lot of keeping things very simple but just being in close proximity and seeing what he did when he slowed it down to demo then speeded it up was freat.
Worst lesson - probably any of those that have revolved around an instructor trying to explain some physics in a pole sketch then setting tedious drills. I am a feeler/follower when it comes to ski learning not an academic and I really hate drills. I get why they work for people but I resent doing them so much that I am even more likely to revert to what I was doing before than adopt anything from the drill. And I really hate one footed drills as I think they are just plain dangerous on the knees (if you catch the free foot in the snow and pivot on it) so I refuse to do them. Basically because of this I just don't take lessons anymore.
Worst lesson - probably any of those that have revolved around an instructor trying to explain some physics in a pole sketch then setting tedious drills. I am a feeler/follower when it comes to ski learning not an academic and I really hate drills. I get why they work for people but I resent doing them so much that I am even more likely to revert to what I was doing before than adopt anything from the drill. And I really hate one footed drills as I think they are just plain dangerous on the knees (if you catch the free foot in the snow and pivot on it) so I refuse to do them. Basically because of this I just don't take lessons anymore.
These are interesting from a students viewpoint. How about hearing best lesson/worst lesson from an instructors viewpoint?
Worst lesson with me teaching an adult: two friends took a 1-hour semiprivate. Both skied pretty much the same and so I chose to work on the same thing with each. I'm not sure if it was separation or release or centered stance or something else since it's been so long since this happened. I alternated which woman I talked with, giving each personal attention but addressing the same issue so they could learn from watching each other. One woman worked hard at "getting" it and was making progress. The other kept saying I wasn't making any sense, that she couldn't understand what I was asking her to do, and that when I tried another way of saying or showing what she didn't understand, she told me I was confusing her with too many differing instructions. It appeared to me that her response was because of some level of anxiety which at first I did not perceive. Finally she told me her last lesson was with a "good" instructor and it worked real well for her because the instructor gave her the best advice she'd ever gotten: stop thinking and just ski.
I may have asked her why she took a lesson with me if she didn't want to work on any changes in her skiing... or maybe I was smart and kept my mouth shut - can't remember. What I do remember is that at that point, which was late in the lesson with only a little time left, I affirmed that she should do what worked in the past and shifted all my technical attention to her friend who was determined to incorporate something new in her skiing and doing a good job of it.
Most recent best lesson of me teaching an adult: a very frightened novice woman. She had been going up the magic carpet for three days and skiing down by herself after an initial beginner lesson. She was finally ready to take the chair lift up the same beginner hill and give that a try. The carpet had been taking her up about 1/3 of the way. She booked a one hour private lesson and got me. She told me as we approached the chair that she was so frightened she thought she might vomit right there. I gave her a hug and calmed her down. She made it up and off the chair without falling, and we traveled down the hill four or five times. We started very very very slow, and by the time we were on that last run she was able to transfer weight fully to the new outside ski and even lift the tail of the new inside ski before the fall line, making very short snappy wedge-christie turns. She never fell, had a blast skiing that she didn't expect, and was quite appreciative. Great lesson.
I may have asked her why she took a lesson with me if she didn't want to work on any changes in her skiing... or maybe I was smart and kept my mouth shut - can't remember. What I do remember is that at that point, which was late in the lesson with only a little time left, I affirmed that she should do what worked in the past and shifted all my technical attention to her friend who was determined to incorporate something new in her skiing and doing a good job of it.
Most recent best lesson of me teaching an adult: a very frightened novice woman. She had been going up the magic carpet for three days and skiing down by herself after an initial beginner lesson. She was finally ready to take the chair lift up the same beginner hill and give that a try. The carpet had been taking her up about 1/3 of the way. She booked a one hour private lesson and got me. She told me as we approached the chair that she was so frightened she thought she might vomit right there. I gave her a hug and calmed her down. She made it up and off the chair without falling, and we traveled down the hill four or five times. We started very very very slow, and by the time we were on that last run she was able to transfer weight fully to the new outside ski and even lift the tail of the new inside ski before the fall line, making very short snappy wedge-christie turns. She never fell, had a blast skiing that she didn't expect, and was quite appreciative. Great lesson.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2015
- Posts
- 6,337
Hmm. I know you are probably right in your judgement but the 2nd lady could be contributing to this thread saying something like
"Shared a lessson with my friend who is a bit of a keen bean. Instructor couldn't find a way of talking to me that I could relate to so she just ignored me...."
Skiing is both really simple and intuitive and really hard and counter intuitive. Add to that people who have different learning mechanics and the high $ price of admission and every instructor has their work cut out. Props to those of you that get it right for most customers most of the time.
"Shared a lessson with my friend who is a bit of a keen bean. Instructor couldn't find a way of talking to me that I could relate to so she just ignored me...."
Skiing is both really simple and intuitive and really hard and counter intuitive. Add to that people who have different learning mechanics and the high $ price of admission and every instructor has their work cut out. Props to those of you that get it right for most customers most of the time.
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2018
- Posts
- 168
Teaching:
Best, or more exactly, favourite: Had a 55 year old lady from England who had never been to Canada and had never been skiing. Her Birthday present to herself was a trip to the Rockies. She wasn't exactly athletic, but was a lot of fun. After two hours, she was barely making turns down the carpet, and loving it.
Worst: a school group, from a school with a reputation. I had a group of seven, struggled to keep them under control, and making them understand why they should stay on terrain that matched their abilities. By the end of the day three had hurt themselves, one seriously.
Learning:
Best: CSIA Level 3 training. Three full days of intense, high end instruction, working on personal ski improvement, MA, how to better talk with students, and how everything ties together. All the students were already great skiers with experience teaching and on the same page in terms of technical reference, so there was no need to waste time figuring out groups, toning down the skiing for anyone, or explaining basic concepts. Plus, the student/course conductor ratio was great, five students and two CSIA Level 4s.
Worst: An advanced bump course. One of the students was over terrained, lost a ski, and couldn't get it back on without assistance. Dramatically slowed down the pace of the group and the difficulty of terrain. But even on bad lessons I still learn something, even if it's just from watching someone else's instruction style.
Best, or more exactly, favourite: Had a 55 year old lady from England who had never been to Canada and had never been skiing. Her Birthday present to herself was a trip to the Rockies. She wasn't exactly athletic, but was a lot of fun. After two hours, she was barely making turns down the carpet, and loving it.
Worst: a school group, from a school with a reputation. I had a group of seven, struggled to keep them under control, and making them understand why they should stay on terrain that matched their abilities. By the end of the day three had hurt themselves, one seriously.
Learning:
Best: CSIA Level 3 training. Three full days of intense, high end instruction, working on personal ski improvement, MA, how to better talk with students, and how everything ties together. All the students were already great skiers with experience teaching and on the same page in terms of technical reference, so there was no need to waste time figuring out groups, toning down the skiing for anyone, or explaining basic concepts. Plus, the student/course conductor ratio was great, five students and two CSIA Level 4s.
Worst: An advanced bump course. One of the students was over terrained, lost a ski, and couldn't get it back on without assistance. Dramatically slowed down the pace of the group and the difficulty of terrain. But even on bad lessons I still learn something, even if it's just from watching someone else's instruction style.
I agree.
As a student
- I have had many "best" lessons. The most recent lesson that gave me a breakthrough is obviously the "best". It was an informal lesson with 4ster when we happen to be skiing together. I asked him if he could help me get over my issues with steep moguls. His way of recognizing the way I receive instruction and ability to communicate well with me was incredible. Me: Ah HAH!!!
- Worst lesson: I spent a lengthy time in clinics at a local hill when I was attempting to be an instructor. The instructor repeated a few things to me over and over that I just didn't grasp. At one point he said, "I keep telling you to do 'this' and you just aren't doing it!!" My reply: "Can you find a different way to tell me? I might get it if I hear it a different way."
As an instructor
- Best lesson: One day I was teaching a guy who was big and sluggish in his movements. He had a thick accent(Sarajevo) but he was determined to learn to ski with his young (10 year old) son. When he was linking turns nicely on the magic carpet I was ready to take him to the beginner chair, but he was not willing to go. He finally told me that he was 8 years old when the building he lived in (Sarajevo) was bombed and he had to jump from a burning building, this made him deathly afraid of heights and chair lifts were not something he could do. He asked for me for his second lesson and told me that his son plead with him to please please please go up the chairlift with him, and the only instructor he would trust was me because (in his words) I seemed compassionate. We went up the Ponderosa chair, bar down with him staring me in the face and talking to me about his son. No looking down. No looking up. Just looking into my eyes. He skied with his son.
- Worst lesson: I had a husband/wife together. They were from the middle east and she was dressed in a burka. She seemed like she really wanted to learn, but he wouldn't let me communicate directly to her. I'm not sure if it was his culture or if he was "that husband" but it made for a very difficult time. She didn't get much out of it and I walked away feeling like I was the most terrible instructor on the planet.
Worst lesson, that ones easy (it was an informal lesson).
A CSIA level 2 (working towards a 3) told me I didn’t ski correctly as my legs were spaced too narrow and here’s what I needed to work on. I was free skiing on new SL’s (with a modern cut and getting a feel of the differences and ski tight and narrow in an unpushed, relaxed posture as it falls into my old school training).
My reply is as Oh? Ok, follow me down on the next run, and let me know if I got your message. Where upon a high speed SL turn style run was done. 1. She couldn’t keep up. 2. The way she skied OMG, if I had every skied that way as a child, I would have received a ski pole across the rear (yes the days before anyone considered it child abuse, and yes it was effective).
At the bottom, I asked innocently, how was that, reply much better. My next statement was I missed the point, I ski both ways because I can, using what’s needed given the conditions, not in some pre-conceived style that limits what you do.
Made me seriously question the abilities of CSIA instructors.
Of the few formal lessons I have had (been lucky in have extremely good CSIA level 3 and 4 in which the 4 was also a level 3 coach), those experiences were beyond approach and taught me skills and methodology that I still use in my warmup and refresher runs along helping me continue to progress to the level I am today. That’s instructing, life long lessons.
A CSIA level 2 (working towards a 3) told me I didn’t ski correctly as my legs were spaced too narrow and here’s what I needed to work on. I was free skiing on new SL’s (with a modern cut and getting a feel of the differences and ski tight and narrow in an unpushed, relaxed posture as it falls into my old school training).
My reply is as Oh? Ok, follow me down on the next run, and let me know if I got your message. Where upon a high speed SL turn style run was done. 1. She couldn’t keep up. 2. The way she skied OMG, if I had every skied that way as a child, I would have received a ski pole across the rear (yes the days before anyone considered it child abuse, and yes it was effective).
At the bottom, I asked innocently, how was that, reply much better. My next statement was I missed the point, I ski both ways because I can, using what’s needed given the conditions, not in some pre-conceived style that limits what you do.
Made me seriously question the abilities of CSIA instructors.
Of the few formal lessons I have had (been lucky in have extremely good CSIA level 3 and 4 in which the 4 was also a level 3 coach), those experiences were beyond approach and taught me skills and methodology that I still use in my warmup and refresher runs along helping me continue to progress to the level I am today. That’s instructing, life long lessons.
Last edited:
IMN- Initials (can) mean nothing, everyone learns differently. Good instructors have a HUGE bag of tricks and are able to say and demo the same thing in many different ways.There are some excellent instructors that are coaches, long time skiers who have no initials or are instructors that don't care about the initials/advancement due to the time, $ commitment to advance and are satisfied w/where they are. I've met seasoned L3 instructors/examiners that are so full of themselves their teaching has become the same old same old or their techno babble is so confusing there's no way a student would ever comprehend what they are trying to accomplish in the lesson. I've met instructors who talk the talk but can't ski the ski or explain what they are trying to get across. I've met instructors who from listening to them I was certain they were going to be awesome skiers only to find out they are beginners and have limited experience.
Those complaining about Group lessons..Instructors Do need to Encourage Students to Speak up- it should always be safety first. instructors must teach as slowly as the slowest in the group.This will be a huge disappointment for better skiers in a group if the instructor is unable to give tasks to different students at different skiing levels.Find a ski school that allows students to move Groups to meet their goals. Taos Ski week is excellent for this, allowing moving up/down to work on strengths, weakness, goals.
My Worst lesson; A group of Chinese college students who had no translator, had no knowledge of the English language, the Mt. had No one that spoke their language. That was CRAZY Scary! They put their skis on backwards,(jerry awards) we let them raid our lost and found for gloves and ski pants. It was frightening watching them go straight until they either hugged a tree or had a yard sale!! They thought that was FUN?!!! Thankfully no one was injured- I guess my "you can die or get hurt" Sign language worked!
1 of the Worst lessons a student told me about: Her 1st time she tried skiing her instructor kept screaming-Pizza Pizza- She says what do I know?? Pizzas are ROUND! She kept trying to make circles and the guy kept screaming Pizza Pizza louder and was furious with her. She thanked me explaining "pizza" and not yelling.
Best Lesson: First timers that 'hook up' and learn to control their speed and have so much fun they can't wait to come back and ski more.
Those complaining about Group lessons..Instructors Do need to Encourage Students to Speak up- it should always be safety first. instructors must teach as slowly as the slowest in the group.This will be a huge disappointment for better skiers in a group if the instructor is unable to give tasks to different students at different skiing levels.Find a ski school that allows students to move Groups to meet their goals. Taos Ski week is excellent for this, allowing moving up/down to work on strengths, weakness, goals.
My Worst lesson; A group of Chinese college students who had no translator, had no knowledge of the English language, the Mt. had No one that spoke their language. That was CRAZY Scary! They put their skis on backwards,(jerry awards) we let them raid our lost and found for gloves and ski pants. It was frightening watching them go straight until they either hugged a tree or had a yard sale!! They thought that was FUN?!!! Thankfully no one was injured- I guess my "you can die or get hurt" Sign language worked!
1 of the Worst lessons a student told me about: Her 1st time she tried skiing her instructor kept screaming-Pizza Pizza- She says what do I know?? Pizzas are ROUND! She kept trying to make circles and the guy kept screaming Pizza Pizza louder and was furious with her. She thanked me explaining "pizza" and not yelling.
Best Lesson: First timers that 'hook up' and learn to control their speed and have so much fun they can't wait to come back and ski more.
Best lesson is easy. It started as a call from my supervisor, "I need you at the other meeting area for a "special situation" (supervisor talk for problem student)" I skate over to the other meeting area (takes about 5 minutes) and arrive over there to a child sitting on the ground screaming "I don't want to take a lesson" at everyone that approached her, Including her father. I skied up to her, popped off my skis and sat in the snow next to her and smiled. As soon as I was sitting eye level to her she calmed down a bit. "How about we just go make a few runs? No instruction, Let's just go play for a while". She nodded yes and started to put her skis on. I then got the number of her father and told him I'll call him if we needed anything, and told him we would be back at noon for lunch. I asked her to ski over to the beginner lift which is slightly uphill from the meeting area and I would follow. She skated (a little awkwardly) over and that told me everything I needed as far as basic skills and where I could take her. We then spent the chair lift rides talking about everything from other sports, what she did for fun, her dog, school, etc.. The whole lesson on the snow was me leading her everywhere doing things silly things on different types of terrain, challenging her to ski on one foot, get her feet as high on a berm as possible. ski off the edges of the groomed and get stuck in the unpacked snow, leaning on our poles in the powder and falling over then figuring out how to stand back up. . Very often when something strange happened we laughed about it, and chatted about how to avoid that, and off we went.. My whole approach to the lesson was to give her "tasks or challenges" that to her seemed like just a fun thing to do, but required her to change her movements or what she was doing in order to accomplish said challenge. When she would ask "how did you do that?" after a demonstration then, it might be "try it" let her try, then quick tip on what I was doing, or relate the movement to a different sport she did (horse back riding for instance) let her try it again, feedback. and off to play some more.
We arrived back at the meeting area all smiles (full 2.5 hrs).. Her dad asked "so what did you learn?" her answer, "Nothing!" followed by "Can I go out with David again this afternoon?" We spent the rest of the day together, and the next two days as well. I did have to explain to the father what she really learned and how what we did, might even relate to her other sports. Even though he was not a "skier" he could see many of the changes in her skiing when we skied up at the end of each day.
A most satisfying weekend, Happy parent, and more importantly a very happy child with new skills!
We arrived back at the meeting area all smiles (full 2.5 hrs).. Her dad asked "so what did you learn?" her answer, "Nothing!" followed by "Can I go out with David again this afternoon?" We spent the rest of the day together, and the next two days as well. I did have to explain to the father what she really learned and how what we did, might even relate to her other sports. Even though he was not a "skier" he could see many of the changes in her skiing when we skied up at the end of each day.
A most satisfying weekend, Happy parent, and more importantly a very happy child with new skills!
Worst lessons taught?
Ran a couple of different ski schools many years ago, and we did some pretty large school multi day programs. First day of a program was always nuts getting students where they belonged and helping to align group sizes. There were always a group of teens, normally boys, who felt they were just too good to be wasting their time in classes and being disruptive in general. I would gather these guys up from the different classes and create my own special ed program.
Would tell the guys that they really were good and we would spend our time just skiing together to fulfill their requirements and not waste their time. First run was down some fairly gentle bumps to evaluate what these hot shots could actually do. 2nd run took them out into some crud; would ski down a couple hundred yards and wait for them get their skis back on and catch up. Would then ask them if they would like to be able to actually ski this kind of stuff, and that is when the lessons would begin.
Not a recommended way to teach a class, but it sure did work. Over the years I hired some of those kids.
Best Lesson taught?
Last year teaching full time at Copper Mt. Was often used as a floater to shadow classes and help with problem students getting them to the right classes. A middle aged woman in a group over her head and paralyzed by fear and still way up the hill. So we spent some time together. After a few minutes I got her to just watch and follow me listen to my voice, and stop thinking. We did some garlands, learned to use a little bump to turn, side slip, falling leaf stuff, and showed her control. By the time the lodge was in sight she was smiling and laughing and my job was done. (By the end of the week a letter from her appeared at the SSD's desk singing my praises and hiring me for a 4 hour private for her family every week. The job was not done.)
Ran a couple of different ski schools many years ago, and we did some pretty large school multi day programs. First day of a program was always nuts getting students where they belonged and helping to align group sizes. There were always a group of teens, normally boys, who felt they were just too good to be wasting their time in classes and being disruptive in general. I would gather these guys up from the different classes and create my own special ed program.
Would tell the guys that they really were good and we would spend our time just skiing together to fulfill their requirements and not waste their time. First run was down some fairly gentle bumps to evaluate what these hot shots could actually do. 2nd run took them out into some crud; would ski down a couple hundred yards and wait for them get their skis back on and catch up. Would then ask them if they would like to be able to actually ski this kind of stuff, and that is when the lessons would begin.
Not a recommended way to teach a class, but it sure did work. Over the years I hired some of those kids.
Best Lesson taught?
Last year teaching full time at Copper Mt. Was often used as a floater to shadow classes and help with problem students getting them to the right classes. A middle aged woman in a group over her head and paralyzed by fear and still way up the hill. So we spent some time together. After a few minutes I got her to just watch and follow me listen to my voice, and stop thinking. We did some garlands, learned to use a little bump to turn, side slip, falling leaf stuff, and showed her control. By the time the lodge was in sight she was smiling and laughing and my job was done. (By the end of the week a letter from her appeared at the SSD's desk singing my praises and hiring me for a 4 hour private for her family every week. The job was not done.)
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2015
- Posts
- 24,967
For that demographic, total failure is about the only way to get their attention.
Remember, " Hire a teenager while they still know everything".
I've heard stories from instructors who set up for failure the British teens who come on school vacation. They intentionally over-terrain them to impress them that they aren't as skilled as they think, and this gets them to pay attention to the leader so some learning can happen. I understand from the practitioners of this pedagogical strategy that it works.
But I've never done it. I taught high school for ages, and over the years found that simple rules (don't pass me, we stick together as a group and slow down when someone needs extra time, everyone's success matters), repeated ad nauseam, combined with an appeal to their better selves predictably works wonders.
Anyway, at my former mountain the ski school needed to bring in numerous volunteers to serve as "instructors" to help out with the Brits when they arrived. The school simply didn't have enough instructors on staff to handle the 250 extra students per day. These temporary instructors would use the over-terraining technique to get the kids to accept their authority. Unfortunately ski patrol regularly got extra work those weeks because the number of injuries went up precipitously. The two were directly related.
I don't know if this was a particular thing at that ski school or if it happens elsewhere. I suspect that under the leadership of a seasoned pro there would be less danger of accidentally breaking the over-confident students.
But I've never done it. I taught high school for ages, and over the years found that simple rules (don't pass me, we stick together as a group and slow down when someone needs extra time, everyone's success matters), repeated ad nauseam, combined with an appeal to their better selves predictably works wonders.
Anyway, at my former mountain the ski school needed to bring in numerous volunteers to serve as "instructors" to help out with the Brits when they arrived. The school simply didn't have enough instructors on staff to handle the 250 extra students per day. These temporary instructors would use the over-terraining technique to get the kids to accept their authority. Unfortunately ski patrol regularly got extra work those weeks because the number of injuries went up precipitously. The two were directly related.
I don't know if this was a particular thing at that ski school or if it happens elsewhere. I suspect that under the leadership of a seasoned pro there would be less danger of accidentally breaking the over-confident students.
Last edited:
I have seen that technique successfully employed for the Taos Teen Weeks during the holidays many times.
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2017
- Posts
- 1,625
I skied with an instructor years ago who said they did something similar with a group, but I'm not sure what the motive was (other than humor). He skied junk snow, got to the end of the pitch, and said, "Isn't this great?" to see what their reaction would be/mess with them. I don't get the impression that he was being sarcastic, but I thought it was hilarious.
Last edited:
He skied junk snow, got to the end of the pitch, and said, "Isn't this great?" to see what their reaction would be/mess with them. I don't get the impression that he was being sarcastic, but I thought it was hilarious.
I do this in clinics with our instructors. Generally to get them thinking about how to "up their game" and to get them to realize it's about putting the time in to practice.
Best lesson received... Difficult choice - there's been many very good ones. A couple of stand-outs where a single lesson made a huge difference:
1. Back in 1986: Instructor pointed out tendency to 'hitchhike' (wildy fling the outside arm up when hitting unexpected conditions like a patch of ice) and how to use hand/arm position correctly. Virtually eliminated falls.
2. A few seasons back, a bumps clinic with a young CSIA L2. Excellent bump skier - she worked with the junior mogul squad in Australia. Immediately saw I was attempting to crank my knees in laterally. "Do you have sore knees after skiing?" Yes, I did. Thought it was just part of skiing and getting older. Used to be regular ice pack and Voltaren evenings. It's a bad idea and a particularly bad idea when loading the legs in the bumps. We worked on other ways to create angulation and my knees stopped hurting. I credit that lesson with saving my knees.
Yep. Seek out the worst possible snow in the resort. Preferably somewhere visible from a chair. Try to make it look easy which is the hard part. Typically requires working your tail off.
You know you've succeeded when other people track into that pitch and find it ain't so easy.
Lots of fails at this however it's fun trying. Works skills - adapt or die.
1. Back in 1986: Instructor pointed out tendency to 'hitchhike' (wildy fling the outside arm up when hitting unexpected conditions like a patch of ice) and how to use hand/arm position correctly. Virtually eliminated falls.
2. A few seasons back, a bumps clinic with a young CSIA L2. Excellent bump skier - she worked with the junior mogul squad in Australia. Immediately saw I was attempting to crank my knees in laterally. "Do you have sore knees after skiing?" Yes, I did. Thought it was just part of skiing and getting older. Used to be regular ice pack and Voltaren evenings. It's a bad idea and a particularly bad idea when loading the legs in the bumps. We worked on other ways to create angulation and my knees stopped hurting. I credit that lesson with saving my knees.
Yep. Seek out the worst possible snow in the resort. Preferably somewhere visible from a chair. Try to make it look easy which is the hard part. Typically requires working your tail off.
You know you've succeeded when other people track into that pitch and find it ain't so easy.
Lots of fails at this however it's fun trying. Works skills - adapt or die.
Sponsor
Staff online
-
jimmyMixmaster
Members online
- edsger6
- Noodler
- Magikarp
- cjm
- Jwrags
- JWMN
- Mothertucker
- GregK
- Don4Fun
- Julixjd
- Mike Rogers
- KimJongTr1ll
- mdf
- aveski
- ted
- jimmy
- BullMcCabe
- FrequentFlyer
- scrubadub
- MikeWood
- SpeedyKevin
- TrueNorth
- istin
- jdwalk
- hrandersonn
- xiskiguy
- Powder and Corn
- Vinnie
- tch
- az29okg
- Aeolian
- oldschoolskier
- Drahtguy Kevin
- salvatore
- DebbieSue
- Hot.Tamale
- Mendieta
- Luqi
- DanoT
- JoeSchmoe
- goaliedad
- Chewski
- msr2009
- zircon
- chris_the_wrench
- Joe Strummer
- Rudi Riet
- Keys2Ski
- socalgal
- PlainsSkier