Colorado Best grooming in the Rockies?

[DanoT]

Lot's of good data coming in, but let's drill down a little deeper: are all the groomed runs hit every night, or only every second or even third night? Is there a lot of variation in individual staff groomer's skill/finished product or does management maintain a high overall standard? On nights with soft snow conditions is the result lots of ridges/steps between passes or do the groomers take the extra time to even those traps out? How many black diamond runs are groomed? Do these BD runs require winches for the cats to overcome the gradient?

At Sun Peaks they usually groom about 100 out of 135 runs and do about a third or more of those 100 each night. They often will groom the same run 2 nights in a row and then leave it for a night or two.

As i stated in my earlier post but it is worth repeating: The volume of traffic is key to how long the corduroy stands up and the snow quality is key to how well it grooms up.

 

[Sibhusky]

Lot's of good data coming in, but let's drill down a little deeper: are all the groomed runs hit every night, or only every second or even third night?

At Whitefish, there are normally roughly 60 runs groomed at night, out of 108 named "runs". There is some variation to which runs these are. There are some runs that are NEVER groomed, largely because they are more treed "areas" than trails. The tree density in those areas can vary tremendously.

Is there a lot of variation in individual staff groomer's skill/finished product or does management maintain a high overall standard?

I haven't seen much variability, except during spring conditions, when you might see issues due to clumping build up on the groomer equipment. I'd call it an exception, rather than business as usual. The big variability might be the hour the trail was hit, with trails groomed just before opening being more clearly "perfect" than those groomed immediately after the area closed the night before. So you could have EIGHT inches of snow on a groomed run. When I first moved here, I would not have considered that to be a groomed run, but I do now.

On nights with soft snow conditions is the result lots of ridges/steps between passes or do the groomers take the extra time to even those traps out?

Generally those are groomed out. Not saying I've never ever seen it, but once again it's the exception.

How many black diamond runs are groomed?

Very few. I can list them. Heap Steep, Upper Langley, Powder Trap, No Name, The Chute, Kodiak, Gelaendesprung. (Then we have some "recent blacks" that are usually groomed and only black due to small sections that have proved to be high injury areas.) None of these are groomed everyday. Some of those are even in the rarely category. Most blacks here are not groomed. In fact, most are treed. There is an exception, 1000 Turns, which has a high accident history, but once was a green. That is groomed daily. That'll tell you, in answer to the next question, that it does not need a winch.

Do these BD runs require winches for the cats to overcome the gradient?

Most do, but maybe not for their entire length. I assume that is why not every one gets done every night. In fact, some might be only done twice a season (Kodiak?). On the other hand, depending on snow conditions and time of year, you might think it was just groomed and in fact it was done several days ago.

I'd have to say that most of the black terrain here is not groomable, winch or no winch. We're known for tree skiing. Occasionally those trees are thinned, but really not as often as many would like. I've noticed that the Tree Farm area has really gotten overgrown. It used to thin out as the season progressed, not anymore. We had a huge winter and even towards the end, things were tight in one section that used to be popular.

More specifics about the conditions of every trail here can be found in my guide.

 

[Jim Kenney]

Lot's of good data coming in, but let's drill down a little deeper: are all the groomed runs hit every night, or only every second or even third night? Is there a lot of variation in individual staff groomer's skill/finished product or does management maintain a high overall standard? On nights with soft snow conditions is the result lots of ridges/steps between passes or do the groomers take the extra time to even those traps out? How many black diamond runs are groomed? Do these BD runs require winches for the cats to overcome the gradient?

Whew, those are detailed questions. You need resort groomer operators to weigh-in. Sun Valley is famous for steep groomers. I believe Kirkwood uses winch cats to groom some of their black diamonds, but I wouldn't call it groomer paradise. I have no knowledge if DV uses winch cats on groomers. It's not a super steep mtn.

 

[Lofcaudio]

I consider myself to be highly qualified to answer on this topic (at least, as it relates to the places I have been). I also agree with @DanoT's analysis as he correctly points out how important crowding is to the equation.

1. Aspen (Snowmass, Highlands, Aspen Mountain)...tons of great groomers that hold up all day.
2. Snowbasin...Do you like them steep? (See Wildflower Downhill.) Do you like them fun? (See Main Street or Needles Run.)
3. Sun Valley... Limelight, Warm Springs and Christmas Ridge are some steep groomers with lots of vertical.
4. Snowbird...underrated as a groomer spot, but actually prefer it over Deer Valley
5. Beaver Creek
6. Solitude
7. Jackson Hole
8. Copper Mountain
9. Steamboat
10. Deer Valley

 

[Kneale Brownson]

Deer Valley is the best I have seen.

Perfect corderoy.

I skied Deer Valley several years ago when it rained and froze after all that wonderful grooming. The corduroy was like a rippled ice rink.

 

[New2]

I agree that crowding makes sense to consider, but it's hard to predict just what crowding will look like next year, with all the shifting passes. California to the Rockies is a pretty long road trip, so I'd say it makes sense to pick somewhere closer (Utah, or Sun Valley if you're in Northern California). My thoughts on the best steep, evenly-groomed that I've encountered...

• Sun Valley
• Alta
• Deer Valley
• Snowbasin (although it has chokepoints that get tracked up when crowds are heavy)
• Telluride

 

[Bill Miles]

When grooming is less than ideal at Sun Valley, we sometimes hear the groomers are broken down, which raises the question on whether the reference is to the equipment or the operators.

There are three blacks that are regularly groomed. Usually one or two per night in the main season. A few others rarely. The rest never. Probably use winch cats. We have some blues that would be black or blue/black at other mountains.

There is some variability. They are pretty good at avoiding ridges and holes. Hard to tell if variability is due to conditions or individual operators.

 

[noncrazycanuck]

In this region BC/Alberta, Sun Peaks and Panorama are both well known for cruising groomers.
both offer some more challenge if you want to mix it up a little.

every hill here tries to do a reasonable job of grooming but percentage of terrain groomed varies greatly and it's not really what this region is known for

 

[Lofcaudio]

Alta has a few good groomers, but it has the same "problem" that Deer Valley has...not much vertical. If you like them short (1500-1700 vertical), then Alta and Deer Valley would definitely be good choices. If you like them longer, lots of better places in my opinion.

 

[4ster]

Snowbasin...Do you like them steep? (See Wildflower Downhill.) Do you like them fun? (See Main Street or Needles Run.)

I was going to jump in this thread earlier & add Snowbasin but sadly the grooming there is not what it once was. I think the advent & focus on terrain parks depletes a huge percentage of the grooming energy. Runs that were once groomed seamlessly from edge to edge regularly are now 2/3rds or half the width they once were if groomed at all. I suspect that this same phenomenon is occurring at other large corporate areas with terrain park expectations.
Now, if I compare it to a place like Squaw where I have been skiing the past few late & early seasons, I'd have to say the Snowbasin grooming would still be pretty high on the list.

I agree that the amount of traffic, along with the amount of times a run is groomed has some impact. Even though a place like Deer Valley has prided itself on developing a reputation for its seamless corduroy, many of the runs tend to get over groomed. Without frequent fresh the snow can get kind of worn out when the same runs see a lot of skier traffic & grooming machines running over it, especially when they try to soften it with tillers creating death cookies & marbles. When this happens you will experience lots of sugary push piles early in the day with icy patches in between. It is better when an area has lots of runs to choose from & the grooming rotates through the week instead of grooming the exact same runs nightly. Of course it is also important to have some (blue) runs that are never groomed if you want to allow for some decent moguls for folks to learn on. Once a mogul run is flattened it will never be a real mogul run again, at best you will get a bunch of weirdly spaced bumps with no rhyme or rhythm.

Natural snow is always better provided you have it. I have skied Snowbird when steep runs like Regulator are winched & it can be phenomenal!
Snowbasins Downhills when groomed can be equally spectacular.

 

[Lofcaudio]

I was going to jump in this thread earlier & add Snowbasin but sadly the grooming there is not what it once was.

That may be true, but I would submit that when comparing to what other areas have to offer, Snowbasin still should be high on the list of anyone who enjoys groomed terrain. I have skied a lot of groomed runs at a lot of different places the last three seasons and I would put Snowbasin #3 in quality/quantity of groomed terrain (only behind Aspen/Snowmass and W/B). The John Paul downhill runs are exhilarating and have very little traffic. Wildcat Bowl, Needles Run, Sweet Revenge, and Mt. Ogden Bowl are great with those first three definitely getting crowded at times. And then Strawberry (Main Street, Elk Ridge, Coyote Bowl)...so much fun! (When it comes to groomed terrain, I consider Snowbasin to be a mini-Whistler, but I actually prefer Wildflower and Grizzly over Dave Murray.)

 

[PTskier]

Planning a mid-season road trip from CA to somewhere in the Rockies for next season, most likely Feb/March, and would like to hear from the collective which resort has the best grooming....

Is this really the right question?

How about asking about excellent grooming, an altitude that doesn't bother any of the group, terrain that suits the group, reasonable costs, and a town or base that the group will like.

I really like Vail & Beaver Creek. The accommodations will be expensive. The altitude, up to 12k, is a concern for some. Some form of Epic Pass makes the lifts affordable...not the $189 walk-up price. Parking ranges from $30/day to free with a bus ride to the lifts unless your accommodations offer parking--and that may require a bus ride.

 

[Paul Lutes]

Group?!?!? Just asking for myself Yeah that pretty much makes Colorado a 3 day drive for my cranky back and knees, 2 day drive (weather permitting) is much more do-able i.e. Utah, Idaho and maybe W/B.

Certainly there are lot's of non-mechanical skill and equipment factors that can affect the final grooming result, and will be factored in because that data is relatively easy to gather - more challenging for the grooming info.

Tremendous amount of good information - thanks to all! Short list currently includes: Snowbasin, Sun Valley.

Would like to hear more about Whistler, please!

Oh, and I agree 4ster - Squaw's grooming is ..... disappointing, given it's size and reputation as a destination resort for all levels. Several smaller Tahoe basin resorts do a better job, although in all fairness they tend to cater much more to families and intermediates and emphasize groomers more heavily.

 

[Lofcaudio]

Would like to hear more about Whistler, please!

If you like them long and steep, Whistler has them! The Peak to Creek is a special run, but you may run into varying snow quality when navigating the 5,000 feet of vertical. The 7th Heaven, Harmony, and Symphony areas offer super-fun open bowl skiing with lots of groomed options. If you like rolling cruisers, head to the Crystal Ridge chair at Blackcomb. Lots of lots of options off of every lift with the Saddle providing a pretty unique experience as you ski through a notch in the rocks. The initial drop is one of the steeper blues you will find anywhere.

The "risk" with Whistler is the weather. It's a huge area and is prone to less-than-ideal weather and is usually much different up high than down low. But when it's nice and the snow is great from top to bottom...it's the best!

 

[DanoT]

The short version of Whistler=line up in the rain and overpay, and unless you go in April, it will be crowded. That said there is some terrific non-groomed black and double black terrain in the Alpine.
Whistler does offer the best night life and skier-centric shopping in North America but any place that sells garbage bags with their logo and the arm and neck holes already cut, is way too prepared for rain. WB is also known for fog.

 

[dbostedo]

The short version of Whistler=line up in the rain and overpay, and unless you go in April, it will be crowded. That said there is some terrific non-groomed black and double black terrain in the Alpine.
Whistler does offer the best night life and skier-centric shopping in North America but any place that sells garbage bags with their logo and the arm and neck holes already cut, is way too prepared for rain. WB is also known for fog.

Hmmm.... I think you might have missed the point of this being a thread about the groomed runs.

As for avoiding crowds, skiing mid-week should help that a lot. (And being there for a Pugski Gathering doesn't hurt. )

Not sure about the rain and fog though... I think the week we were there was exceedingly fortunate that we got no rain and almost no fog.

 

[DanoT]

Hmmm.... I think you might have missed the point of this being a thread about the groomed runs.

As for avoiding crowds, skiing mid-week should help that a lot. (And being there for a Pugski Gathering doesn't hurt. )

Not sure about the rain and fog though... I think the week we were there was exceedingly fortunate that we got no rain and almost no fog.

When we were at the Whistler Gathering the quality of the snowpack and the lack of rain were due to the fact that 2016-17 was the coldest winter in B.C. in 20 years so the actual ski conditions were closer to what one gets in the B.C. interior than normal coastal Whistler conditions.

Simply put, due to snow quality and lack of people, the B.C. interior and Sun Peaks in particular offer way better groomer skiing than Whistler. So visit Whistler for other reasons than skiing groomers is my point.

 

[Stev]

I'll add another vote for Beaver Creek. I was impressed with their mid-day grooming of a run. I hope that they still do that. I wonder why other resorts won't do this.

 

[teledance]

Jackson Hole, only place I've seen 3-4 groomers side by side regrooming during operating hours.
Whistler/BC 5000' you are going to encounter a lot of conditions in that groomed run due to elevation and costal influence

 

[Paul Lutes]

Confession time: I actually have skied both W/B and BeaverC back in my non-groom days, but it was at least 25 years ago. BC was nice and posh then, sure it's even more so now, while W/B was base rain with pure bliss up top (top 5 powder run of my life off Peak chair), but that was then, this is now. Not sure I want to spend 15-20% of my limited time just sitting in a chair/gondola getting high enough for the goods, and my eyes rule out low viz/fog skiing, but I'm not ruling it out. Crimeny, Sun Peaks is more than a 2,000 mile drive! That's right out!

Seems like Utah/Idaho is the logical choice, but since I am getting a belated mid-life crisis sporty SUV crossover. A three day drive to Beaver might be fun ...... no speeding tickets in Nevada, right?