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Deadslow

Getting on the lift
Skier
Joined
Oct 10, 2016
Posts
89
Location
Front Range
Hi @DavidSkis,

Yes, the snowglide cost a fortune. Way more than my first year of university tuition. My local ski tuning shop (shameless plug – Denver Sports Lab – best tunes in the front range) charges approx $25 for an edge sharpening using a (I believe) trimjet. Less with season tuning pass. Incredible result with little material removed.

However, travel time - it is an hour round trip to the shop. It really came down to a time / cost trade off. I can sharpen my edges in less time than a trip to DSL.

Number of sharpenings to break even: I know, I’ll never break even, but my edges are sharp every time I want them sharp – i.e. every time I go skiing. This is not just for race skis, but all the skis in our house. I sharpen approx 2 times a week.

If you ski in the TO area (Caledon, Mansfield, Osler, Blue, Craigleith, etc) – you know you need sharp skis. Especially after the Ontario powder gets scraped off by 9:15. I once was told the true definition of ice while skiing - when you can see the cigarette package on the grass through 5" of Ontario's finest racing surface.

I believe your cost for each tool is probably spot on.

Ski Racing had an article on some other tools in 2016:
https://www.skiracing.com/premium/man-vs-machine-is-a-handheld-edger-right-for-you

I can’t speak for any of tools except the snowglide but I will do my best to address your points.

Quality of tune: The first time I saw a live demonstration of the snowglide was Alex Martin tuning Ted’s skis at the Head race house the night before the 2015 world championships men’s GS. I assumed it gave a pretty good tune as it worked out ok for Ted.

Speed of use:
Deburr edge with ceramic stone – 1 min per ski

I usually check / remove material with a sidewall planer – especially if the ski has a metal layer above the edge (seems like most of my skis have this) = couple of minutes per ski.

Snowglide set up – about 2 minutes because I don’t want to drop it.

I usually move the machine at approx 2-4 cm/s, while grinding, along the length of the ski. You can go much faster than this.

Usually 2 passes per side – 3 if I’ve managed to hit every rock on the hill (a skill which I seem to have gotten better at with time). I usually wipe the base between passes with a paper towel – more on dust later.

So about 10 – 15 minutes per ski – I’m still a rookie with the machine. One of my ski buddies does about 6 – 10 pairs of race skis a couple of times of week in a couple of hours per session with his snowglide. He has years of practice.

Safety:
The tool produces a lot of very very fine metal dust (think fine flour or icing sugar). This is a big concern for me. I use a respirator with P100 particulate filter. I have a shop vac with a HEPA filter and dustbag to clean up my workbench and to remove dust from the grinder. I put down magnetic sheets on my workbench to help capture the metal dust generated by the grinder. I do have snowglide dust vacuum attachment but need to get that rigged up.

The machine collects a lot of dust too. The manual says to keep dust away from the power supply and from the
motor. I use the shop vac and a small paint brush to clean the snowglide.

Some photos to illustrate:

magnetic sheets to collect dust
sheets.jpg


Dust from base from one grinding pass
towel.jpg


Dust on magnetic sheet
dust.jpg



Better wear gloves - just touched the edge while flipping ski over
ouch.jpg



Ease of use: Since the tool rests on the ski base and the grinder wheel tension is spring loaded (which controls the grinding wheels’ force against the edge) it’s pretty fool proof. I tried it out on an old pair of rock skis and after practicing on only one ski, felt confident to tune up my main go to skis.

Material removed: very little. Much much less than using a file. I can’t really put it down to hard numbers but I would bet it removes 1/3 less material to produce a very sharp and grippy edge. The edge grip is very nice on refrozen manmade snow.

Quality of construction: The tool is rock solid with a metal frame and is surprisingly heavy. But it rests on the ski so no wobble.

I'm sure this muddies the waters. Best of luck.
 

Tim Hodgson

PSIA Level II Alpine
Instructor
Joined
Aug 20, 2016
Posts
688
Location
Kirkwood, California
Jack97: Thank you for posting. I emailed David Hibbert to see if he will provide a prodeal to a 20-year Level II instructor. (Remember, I don't profess to ski well, I just keep coming back.)

Deadslow: You said:

Ease of use: Since the tool rests on the ski base and the grinder wheel tension is spring loaded (which controls the grinding wheels’ force against the edge) it’s pretty fool proof. I tried it out on an old pair of rock skis and after practicing on only one ski, felt confident to tune up my main go to skis."

Bingo! There is no doubt about this. That snowglide is likely simply the best -- mostly because of its horizontal orientation. But I simply cannot justify its price. I don't know why David Hibbert could not make such a horizontal rig.

Finally, after just finishing edge filing two pairs of skis (for skiing for a few hours later this afternoon), I have decided to discontinue edge sharpening on the Swix portable table and to just keep it for waxing. My hand wobbles enough without adding the table wobble. So I will mount the ski vices to the work bench.
 

mdf

entering the Big Couloir
Skier
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
7,217
Location
Boston Suburbs
Yes to sidewall planing but only if I hear/feel grinding from the sidewall when filing.
Take a coarse or medium diamond stone. Clean it with alcohol and a toothbrush. Run it along the edge and then take a careful look at the surface of the stone. A line anywhere but right next to the guide indicates sidewall interference. You can even tell which part of the edge it is on.

And it does sound like your guide or tool might be warped.
 
Last edited:

Tim Hodgson

PSIA Level II Alpine
Instructor
Joined
Aug 20, 2016
Posts
688
Location
Kirkwood, California
It is amazing how nice people in the ski industry can be. The owner of the EdgeTune Pro (attachment to Dremmel described above by Jack97) wrote this in reply to my inquiry regarding PSIA ski instructor discounts. (I linked this pugski.com thread in my email to him):

"As a mechanical engineer, I explain there are 2 types of metal hardening...

1) Heat treating which requires heating the metal red hot and then quenching it in cold water / snow...obviously that would never happen with a ski. Ironically, even if you could heat up the entire edge red hot and didn't immediately find a snow bank, air cooling actually anneals (softens) the metal.

2) Work hardening, which is what happens whenever you disturb the surface molecules making them "more compact". This happens whenever you hit a rock (notice how hard it is to file at first) and all grinding. The work hardening is only a few thousands deep and does not change the edge's flexure strength...all it does is keep a sharp edge sharp longer.

The blogger critical of Edgetune's heat and surface finish is obviously taking too much grind "bite"...creeping up on the edge grind depth is always better, as it will give the best edge surface and sharpness.

Hope this helps, and please pass this info on in the blog.

re: (PSIA) discounts, yes, we offer free shipping and include extra grinding stones for free ($30 savings). This makes a great deal even better!

Dave"


Since last year I burned up my aging Dremmel on a tile grout project, I am going to go with the EdgeTune Part Number ET-114:

http://www.edgetune.com/buy.html

So, thanks Jack97, without your post, I would have never known this tool existed.
 

PTskier

Been goin' downhill for years....
Pass Pulled
Joined
Jun 16, 2017
Posts
583
Location
Washington, the state
David, let's check your technique.
Skiman is an Italian tuning tool maker. The Fiat of tools?

Use only a sharp file. 2nd cut (about 18 teeth per cm) is fine for moderate removal. A 6" file works fine. Use a file made for ski tuning. Most hardware store files are too soft. With the tang in your right hand, push the file away from you. Or, with the tang in your left hand, pull the file toward you. Use moderate pressure, just enough to cut. You'll see when you get curly filings off the edge. Lift the file off the metal for the return stroke to avoid dulling the file. Here's how Skiman shows the file clamped in their guide--note the angle of the file. Adjust the distance it sticks out to miss the bindings. Also note that in this photo the file cannot cut. It will move parallel with the teeth on the bottom. The angle is good; the direction is wrong. Use a wire brush (a toothbrush sized one is handy) for cleaning chips out of the teeth. Keep the file teeth clean.
upload_2018-4-2_16-35-29.png


A stone that is about 100 x 20 x 9 mm works well, or a thinner ceramic polishing stone. Much larger and it gets clumsy. Don't overwork the edges. When they're sharp & smooth, stop.
 

jack97

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Jul 7, 2017
Posts
924
It is amazing how nice people in the ski industry can be. The owner of the EdgeTune Pro (attachment to Dremmel described above by Jack97) wrote this in reply to my inquiry regarding PSIA ski instructor discounts. (I linked this pugski.com thread in my email to him):

"As a mechanical engineer, I explain there are 2 types of metal hardening...

1) Heat treating which requires heating the metal red hot and then quenching it in cold water / snow...obviously that would never happen with a ski. Ironically, even if you could heat up the entire edge red hot and didn't immediately find a snow bank, air cooling actually anneals (softens) the metal.

2) Work hardening, which is what happens whenever you disturb the surface molecules making them "more compact". This happens whenever you hit a rock (notice how hard it is to file at first) and all grinding. The work hardening is only a few thousands deep and does not change the edge's flexure strength...all it does is keep a sharp edge sharp longer.

The blogger critical of Edgetune's heat and surface finish is obviously taking too much grind "bite"...creeping up on the edge grind depth is always better, as it will give the best edge surface and sharpness.

Hope this helps, and please pass this info on in the blog.

re: (PSIA) discounts, yes, we offer free shipping and include extra grinding stones for free ($30 savings). This makes a great deal even better!

Dave"


Since last year I burned up my aging Dremmel on a tile grout project, I am going to go with the EdgeTune Part Number ET-114:

http://www.edgetune.com/buy.html

So, thanks Jack97, without your post, I would have never known this tool existed.

No problem. It's good info you posted (as well) for those on the fence about this option.
 

Atomicman

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
May 6, 2017
Posts
843
David, let's check your technique.
Skiman is an Italian tuning tool maker. The Fiat of tools?

Use only a sharp file. 2nd cut (about 18 teeth per cm) is fine for moderate removal. A 6" file works fine. Use a file made for ski tuning. Most hardware store files are too soft. With the tang in your right hand, push the file away from you. Or, with the tang in your left hand, pull the file toward you. Use moderate pressure, just enough to cut. You'll see when you get curly filings off the edge. Lift the file off the metal for the return stroke to avoid dulling the file. Here's how Skiman shows the file clamped in their guide--note the angle of the file. Adjust the distance it sticks out to miss the bindings. Also note that in this photo the file cannot cut. It will move parallel with the teeth on the bottom. The angle is good; the direction is wrong. Use a wire brush (a toothbrush sized one is handy) for cleaning chips out of the teeth. Keep the file teeth clean.
View attachment 43263

A stone that is about 100 x 20 x 9 mm works well, or a thinner ceramic polishing stone. Much larger and it gets clumsy. Don't overwork the edges. When they're sharp & smooth, stop.
The real problem with that photo is that your thumb should be directly over the edge. I may be confused by the photo,You should ALWAYs pull the file toward you never push it away.
 

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