• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

Best Binding for Stockli laser SC

Winks

AKA "Gary".
Industry Insider
SkiTalk Tester
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Feb 10, 2018
Posts
461
Location
CA
Typically Stockli partners with Salomon for bindings but that does not mean you have to do the same. Salomon bindings are known to have great skiability though! A Warden or STH would do great. Depending if you want to treat it more race ski like you could go with an X series from Atomic or a FreeFlex from Tyrolia.
 

slowrider

Trencher
Skier
Joined
Dec 17, 2015
Posts
4,534
I have a new set of white X series Atomic bindings NIB. PM me if interested. Now back to our regular program.
 

Coach13

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Posts
2,091
Location
No. VA
I’ve become a recent fan of the Salomon STH. It’s a great binding at a reasonable price point imo.
 

ski otter 2

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Posts
2,920
Location
Front Range, Colorado
I assume the Freeflex and x series bindings are not readily toe adjustable the way a demo or system binding is, except for a few 1 cm spaced screw holes in the plate to move the whole toe piece. The Freeflex probably prefers a race plate, also.

Related to this OP request, I've been wanting to figure out an adjustable but narrower binding for a laser ski. The skis were offered by the selling shop with Marker xcell 12s at a good price, but I'd rather get a narrower adjustable. The Tyrolia/Head/Fischer PRD (powerrail) or the Tyrolia Freeflex 14 Pros are the only readily available ones I know of. There is a pair of xcell 12 system (adjustable/demo) bindings on the K2 Ikonic 84 skis, but this binding is not in the catalogs for sale separately.
(In the past, I've settled for the PRDs or Head/Tyrolia Freeflex 14 Pros. The latter may actually only be available on a limited basis for particular skis.)

Anyone know of other options?
 

ski otter 2

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Posts
2,920
Location
Front Range, Colorado
Correction: the Freeflex Pro 14s have a powerrail like the Evo models, and like them, the toe is fixed and only the heel moves forward and back on the rail (with a screwdriver).
The PRD 12, on the other hand, is fully adjustable, toe and heel, without tools.
 

KingGrump

Most Interesting Man In The World
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
12,209
Location
NYC
The atomic plate for the X bindings have two fixed position for the mounting the toe track. The two sets of mounting holes are 15 mm apart.
The toe binding is install in the toe track. The toe unit can slide along the toe track to 1 of 7 locations. The locations are approx. 7 mm apart. The toe unit can be locked in position with a lever and pin set up. The heel unit is slaved to the the toe unit and slides along the heel track. This allows the binding set to be moved fore and aft in the field with the lever at the front of the toe piece.
I have recently seen a Stockli plate that has only one set of mounting holes for the toe track. That plate appears to accept either an Atomic X VAR binding or a Salomon Lab binding.

A better look at the X VAR binding can be found here.
https://www.pugski.com/threads/salomon-x12-lab-vs-atomic-x12-var-binding.16089/#post-379263
 

ScotsSkier

USSA Coach
Industry Insider
SkiTalk Tester
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
3,150
Location
North Lake Tahoe, NV
The atomic plate for the X bindings have two fixed position for the mounting the toe track. The two sets of mounting holes are 15 mm apart.
The toe binding is install in the toe track. The toe unit can slide along the toe track to 1 of 7 locations. The locations are approx. 7 mm apart. The toe unit can be locked in position with a lever and pin set up. The heel unit is slaved to the the toe unit and slides along the heel track. This allows the binding set to be moved fore and aft in the field with the lever at the front of the toe piece.
I have recently seen a Stockli plate that has only one set of mounting holes for the toe track. That plate appears to accept either an Atomic X VAR binding or a Salomon Lab binding.

A better look at the X VAR binding can be found here.
https://www.pugski.com/threads/salomon-x12-lab-vs-atomic-x12-var-binding.16089/#post-379263

The X Var and the Salomon Lab are the same binding. The older atomic plates for the X Var also only had one set of toe holes and 3 sets of holes for the heel. Only in the last 3 or 4 years that they added an extra set of ho)les for the toe. (Also, without causing too much thread drift , on the 2020 Redster FIS slaloms the plate has been moved back 20-25mm on the ski
 

Henry

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Sep 7, 2019
Posts
1,229
Location
Traveling in the great Northwest
Chino, do you know what delta you like? That is the measurement of how much higher the heel binding is than the toe binding. I like more delta, and I use the Head/Tyrolia PRX12 binding on my Laser AX. If you have some skis where you feel balanced forward & back, and others where you just feel not as well balanced, you might measure on the good ones the height of the sole contact point on the toe down to the top surface of the ski, and the same for the heel. The difference is the delta. I have one set of very good bindings where I can feel that the heel is too low for me. I put a 3 mm (1/8") plexiglass shim under the heel bindings, and that works great for me. You results may be different from mine. If you know what delta you like, someone here can tell you which bindings will feel good to you. I also like bindings on a rail where I can slide the bindings forward or back a centimeter or two to get the feeling I like out of the skis.
 

ski otter 2

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Posts
2,920
Location
Front Range, Colorado
As I understand it, the PRX 12 binding has an unusually high delta (toe/heel height difference): reportedly +8 mm or so, though I haven't gotten my hands on a pair to measure them myself.

The PRD 12 I own and measured seems to be more like +2 mm, though it's been reported in at least one online thread to be more like +4.
 

Henry

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Sep 7, 2019
Posts
1,229
Location
Traveling in the great Northwest
It matters where the spots are measured. The boot sole contact points, as far forward & back as they touch, is where I measure. One might measure all the way forward to the piece that holds the boot toe extension and all the way back under the heel extension. This will yield different results. In some cases the delta is listed as the angle, but that will change with the boot size...same hardware for a longer boot is less angle.

KneeBinding (not opening a discussion about them) has a choice of shims so one can get the delta they like when the bindings are installed. More binding makers could do this if they wished. I DIY with plexiglass from eBay and longer screws from tognar.com.
 

ski otter 2

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Posts
2,920
Location
Front Range, Colorado
I generally try to measure from the toe and heel contact points that are closest to the ski surface, though sometimes, depending on the binding design, this becomes something slightly different. Ideally (though not practically), I might like to pick the contact points where one's weight is centered, both @ toe and heel.

P.S. In the absence of a standard method introduced by a brand or brands, not sure it matters, as long as one is consistent in one's method from binding to binding, to get practical comparisons.
 
Last edited:

ski otter 2

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Posts
2,920
Location
Front Range, Colorado
I've just finished a bunch of discussions with Stockli dealers and various tech folks in the business about what binding to put on my Laser AXes, and on other Stockli Laser skis also.

Stockli itself defaults to using the Salomon (also Atomic version) N SP 12 Speed S75 adjustable binding, or one of its slight variants, including a fixed toe version, flush without a race plate or riser plate, except possibly on the Laser GS and Laser SL. That includes the SC and SX Laser models, I was told by one of the 16 dealers in this country. If I am not mistaken, this is a toe and heel adjustable demo type binding. Something like a system binding, I gather. Not sure what the toe wing width is on this binding, but probably not the widest (as per similar Salomon/Atomic setups). This binding has a different spring setup than the discredited Z 12. (This SP 12 Speed is mostly available only in Europe, where near race skis are sold.)

Those same folks prefer the Tyrolia PRD 12 instead, just slightly (toe wing width 88 mm.), which is also toe and heel adjustable. That is because, as I understand it, the PRD has a horizontal heel release feature, in addition to the standard up and down heel release of the SP 12 Speed. On the other hand, with more metal in it, the SP 12 Speed is apparently more durable. Both these bindings have a semi-race binding type of feel, designed for more direct edge to edge engagement, rather than maneuverability or playfulness. The PRD binding is used on a number of Head and Fischer skis rebranded with their names, and also on many Kastle skis, rebranded as the K 12 system binding.

For a more fixed binding option, these same folk were more divided, some still preferring to recommend the PRD 12, some the Tyrolia Sth 12.

For their own personal use, the PRD recommenders were divided also, some of them liking the Tyrolia Evo FreeFlex 12 or 16 binding mounted flush, others the Sth 12.

One liked the combination I stumbled on last year, the Tyrolia Attack2-13 mounted with a riser plate. For them, the riser plate has the initial advantage of ending toe wing drag on high angle turns; it also gives more of an authoritative edge control as a bonus. This binding toe has the most horizontal flexibility and playfulness of probably any all mountain binding available today, partly because it also has the widest toe wing width to keep off the snow (94/95 mm.). This extra width and playfulness/flexibility translates into great maneuverability turning.

These folk were able to give me rather precise, preferred race plate or riser plate heights they would suggest for each of these bindings, should a Laser skier prefer that approach.

For me, such detailed knowledge and experience was neat.

The Evo FreeFlex allows a more natural, unimpeded ski flex, and a more precise edge control.

The Sth allows a better edge to edge transition than an all mountain binding, while at the same time having a great deal of the horizontal toe flexibility of a more all mountain binding such as the Attack2-13 or the Marker Griffin - and thus a good bit of playfulness/maneuverability.
 
Last edited:
Thread Starter
TS
C

Chino

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Apr 7, 2019
Posts
14
Location
Connecticut
Chino, do you know what delta you like? That is the measurement of how much higher the heel binding is than the toe binding. I like more delta, and I use the Head/Tyrolia PRX12 binding on my Laser AX. If you have some skis where you feel balanced forward & back, and others where you just feel not as well balanced, you might measure on the good ones the height of the sole contact point on the toe down to the top surface of the ski, and the same for the heel. The difference is the delta. I have one set of very good bindings where I can feel that the heel is too low for me. I put a 3 mm (1/8") plexiglass shim under the heel bindings, and that works great for me. You results may be different from mine. If you know what delta you like, someone here can tell you which bindings will feel good to you. I also like bindings on a rail where I can slide the bindings forward or back a centimeter or two to get the feeling I like out of the skis.
Unfortunately I do not know the delta
 
Thread Starter
TS
C

Chino

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Apr 7, 2019
Posts
14
Location
Connecticut
I've just finished a bunch of discussions with Stockli dealers and various tech folks in the business about what binding to put on my Laser AXes, and on other Stockli Laser skis also.

Stockli itself defaults to using the Salomon (also Atomic version) N SP 12 Speed S75 adjustable binding, or one of its slight variants, including a fixed toe version, flush without a race plate or riser plate, except possibly on the Laser GS and Laser SL. That includes the SC and SX Laser models, I was told by one of the 16 dealers in this country. If I am not mistaken, this is a toe and heel adjustable demo type binding. Something like a system binding, I gather. Not sure what the toe wing width is on this binding, but probably not the widest (as per similar Salomon/Atomic setups). This binding has a different spring setup than the discredited Z 12. (This SP 12 Speed is mostly available only in Europe, where near race skis are sold.)

Those same folks prefer the Tyrolia PRD 12 instead, just slightly (toe wing width 88 mm.), which is also toe and heel adjustable. That is because, as I understand it, the PRD has a horizontal heel release feature, in addition to the standard up and down heel release of the SP 12 Speed. On the other hand, with more metal in it, the SP 12 Speed is apparently more durable. Both these bindings have a semi-race binding type of feel, designed for more direct edge to edge engagement, rather than maneuverability or playfulness. The PRD binding is used on a number of Head and Fischer skis rebranded with their names, and also on many Kastle skis, rebranded as the K 12 system binding.

For a more fixed binding option, these same folk were more divided, some still preferring to recommend the PRD 12, some the Tyrolia Sth 12.

For their own personal use, the PRD recommenders were divided also, some of them liking the Tyrolia Evo FreeFlex 12 or 16 binding mounted flush, others the Sth 12.

One liked the combination I stumbled on last year, the Tyrolia Attack2-13 mounted with a riser plate. For them, the riser plate has the initial advantage of ending toe wing drag on high angle turns; it also gives more of an authoritative edge control as a bonus. This binding toe has the most horizontal flexibility and playfulness of probably any all mountain binding available today, partly because it also has the widest toe wing width to keep off the snow (94/95 mm.). This extra width and playfulness/flexibility translates into great maneuverability turning.

These folk were able to give me rather precise, preferred race plate or riser plate heights they would suggest for each of these bindings, should a Laser skier prefer that approach.

For me, such detailed knowledge and experience was neat.

The Evo FreeFlex allows a more natural, unimpeded ski flex, and a more precise edge control.

The Sth allows a better edge to edge transition than an all mountain binding, while at the same time having a great deal of the horizontal toe flexibility of a more all mountain binding such as the Attack2-13 or the Marker Griffin - and thus a good bit of playfulness/maneuverability.
Thanks! Lot of info there. I will take a look and get a little more educated on bindings
 

Sponsor

Staff online

Top