Sorry about the length of this....I got carried away........
One family's opinion, much like BGreen's and S.H. And based on a lot of history, and current experience, I would somewhat debate the "Common knowledge" of East versus West. Been reasonably familiar with both. Your opinion of what goes on in other regions is always tainted by where you are! Serious "grass is greener......" Been there.
USSA points and the process vary by region. Rocky Central , Intermountain and West all, I believe, all begin to have seeded races and build USSA point profiles as U14's. Always been an issue for Easterners to “debate.”
I've lived through this as an athlete, a coach, the parent of two serious racers, who are now serious adult coaches following NCAA careers. Full time, year round, in big intense Western clubs. One in Rocky, one in Far West. Coaching this age group. Both grew up in the East, as academy kids, BTW. Both id PG year{s} in other programs. And Regions.
This may be more about the general idea and thoughts round chasing points than the specific logic of closing out your U16 years with the lowest possible points to advantage getting on the starting list in as many FIS races {or the perceived "best" races} as a first year FIS skier. So please bear with me. This will be long winded.
One thing absolutely "gets your points down", and it is skiing faster, and finishing better. If your child does that, the points will just happen. I have seen it first hand with the kids that one of mine coaches, his having coached them as U16's and into their first couple of FIS years. These are kids now in the USST system, and a couple are actually scoring WC points. He did not even begin to be concerned with their points until they we IN their first FIS year. And yep, the fastest kids finished best, and their point profiles dropped faster than others. Many of the parents had to learn that. The more experienced the parents, the easier. At one point he had a training contact group of six and all but one had one parent who had made a WC start. They got it. No issues of “why aren’t we going here, there and everywhere.”
Chasing points is, IME and IMO, largely a non starter. Now more than ever. If anything, it teaches your kids just how damn fast the guys and girls who make the 15-25 point penalties actually are. I recall back when fields were bigger that our son, who had cleaned up at his J3 JO's, started dead last in his first NorAm and finished....with about a 150 point result. He already had about a 75 point FIS profile, maybe lower. He learned just how hard it is to score in these big events. It happens when you have had a big breakthrough in your skiing....maybe. In other words getting on the starting list at low penalty FIS Races as a first or second year FIS skier is no great bargain.
As a parent, based on some really dumb coach plans, we did it all. Spring series in CO, Spring speed series at Mammoth. Spring FIS Super Serie in Canada. Eastern Cup Finals, NorAms, NorAm Finals, NCAA carnivals, Alyeska, A LOT in Canada, Lutsen, Iceland some Europe. The full Continental Cup series in NZ and Australia in the summer. Speed races in Chile. When they were older, and fast,
some of those made sense. In the first couple of years, they were essentially going along and making the trip more affordable for everybody. More kids paying more coach expense.
The worst expense were two years in a row at a NorAm speed series at then Big Mountain. In the two years, they got in ONE training run. Bowled a lot. Cost about $8K.
Now when they were younger, trying to work on their best possible USSA points, there were some races that absolutely worked. Late Spring. The UNH fundraiser at Loon. The Spring series at Sugarloaf and Sunday River, and Shawnee Peak with the Colby and Bates teams skiing, and very small fields. Smaller fields, with enough good skiers to calculate a low penalty worked, generally speaking. IF the young athlete delivered.
Now in CO, I know that at some of these spring races, the occasional Narional team, college AA, or WC skier will enter a few USSA races. OK, the penalties come down. But if you have a skier who is a legit 7-8 point skier, and he skis reasonably well, what every kid will be moaning about is how "he ruined the points." Most don't back it down as it's not that easy. And standing up, throwing in a nice slide or a few turns before the finish can get the athlete sanctioned and the entire race results thrown out these days. As. It. Is. Cheating.....
My experience is that parents and kids see low penalties, see what some other kids scored, and assume that it would/could have just happened. When in reality the kids who seem to be "scoring" have in fact made those big breakthroughs in their skiing.
Now there were a few races that really paid off in the FIS world. Specifically, when the academy kids had been training MORE in the fall, and were more on top of their game and dialed in than the college kids. Sunday River would hold two womens FIS SL's. We had one kid who had raced on that hill, top and bottom since she was seven year old J5. They would set a SL that had roughly a 45 send run, which is a "money slot" for race points. The hill was such that the times were stacked. The college girls, by and large were not deep in numbers and not gunning. There were some big gains made that weekend, which carried a few girls through the season. Every year people would bitch about it, but the girls who scored well were consistently scoring in that range as the season unfolded. In Maine, there is also a FIS series for guys before Christmas. It can work out for some, but not so much for the 990's in the back. Regardless of your USSA points you're starting FIS at 990.
Our kids raced in NCAA carnivals before they were in college. Never once scored. The penalties look awesome. They you learn how they determine starting order for the college athletes. First starters based on prior carnival results, then they go to FIS points. The courses tend to deteriorate a lot, fast. And in GS, the guys ski after the girls, so the groove is in the wrong place! It's no bargain. In fact improving your points in carnival racing in college is a rarity. Some do. Some do not. To keep your points or improve them, you need a few other FIS starts, and finishes. Points are almost of no concern for most of them at that point.....only for the few who aspire to continue and press toward the USST.
Do you think Mikaela ever "chased points?" No. She was carefully managed to refine her skiing and skills. Fewer starts. Of curse we all know how unusual she was. We get that. But Kirk Dwyer was not having his J3's go nuts trying to build USSA point profiles. I think he was wise.
I recall when our son was a PG, in the Intermountain Region {he was an Eastern academy kid before}, and he went to B.C. for some early season tech races. He was dusted by some very young, fast Canadian kids, starting way back. Erik Read was one. They were breaking through. Our son skied real well and was about 10 points above his profile. But the young, to be stars in the sport started far back and finished real well. It always happens.
I remember when he was racing in Ontario. Skiing pretty well, in college. He finished second in two SL races that would have been good results. Penalty was about 25. Back when penalties and points tended to be higher. However, the winner was a guy whose points were going to drop from the 40's to about 15 on the next list, and he was carrying all of that 15 point speed. Was shortly put on the CAST. Bottom line is that he was a 40 point skier in the calculation, and the race points were off the charts as he won each run by a second and a half or more. So our son had a couple of 50ish results. No help. If this guy had NOT been there, the penalties would have been almost the same, and assuming our son has skied the same, he might have had two 25 point results. Huge. So, it all looked great until this kid happened to be entered. That stuff happens. It just does. Nothing to "do about it." His coach was bitching the minute he saw the kid added to the board at the seed meeting.
I just don't think you can plot this out. Our son, now the pretty sage coach, pushes a lot of sound fundamentals, a lot of purposeful free skiing, the right amount of training, and race starts that make sense. And if the kids are improving, they get results. It happens. And there is NO huge rush. It's a long game.
Now depending on how the Eastern Region handles quotas to get into some FIS starts, it could make a bit of difference, I guess. However as
@S.H. mentions, there are many more FIS Entry races on the calendar than ever. And I believe that those are pretty much wide open. Doesn't Whiteface host a couple a season? When our kids were in the game, thee were none of those, so you fought the rock fight climbing up the ladder in Eastern Cups. Slow and steady. And for some really talented younger skiers, demoralizing. Sadly so. Many pushed into those starts too early. The FIS Entry races are a great thing. For many reasons.
I don't know. I hear my son dispensing the advice to a lot of parents and kids, including those who ask him even though he no longer coaches their kids and is in a different program. If you want lower points, ski better and faster. Don't obsess over it.
As BGeeen says, the penalties and sanctions for working the system are a lot worse and stiffer than in the past. At one point there were some notorious USSA races in the spring in New York. One year a handful of second year J2's were at the top of the results in four races, and based on how the races had been manipulated, and “thrown”, they all ended up with lower USSA GS points than people like Ligety, the guy who won NCAA's, and others. They were suddenly the top ranked in their age group in the country, and it was a nit so funny joke. USSA did nothing, as they didn't know what to do. All hell broke loose over the summer and into the fall. The net result was that the kids felt like idiots as you can’t fake a solid 65 point skier being a 38 point skier. The good news, they were very average to mediocre FIS skiers for a long time. One, as I recall, sort of caught fire before and during college. Skied real well. Even then, at age 23-24, seven or eight years later he wouid catch crap for that one race. Most good natured. It was all done to try to "help" them get into FIS races, by their coaches and program. The Eastern office, which controlled all FIS entries at that point, pretty much altered the pecking order to correct for it. You can see why their coaches complaining got them nowhere. Of course the entry method of getting on the start lists was not so egalitarian then, either. It's changed.
That crap can't go on to that degree these days. Sanctions have more teeth in them.
So, yeah. Ski faster, better. Some kids do have that after a breakthrough late season in spring races after a season of hard work. East and West. And sometimes a lot of luck comes into play.
When FIS skiers, our family went on a really great fun run, when between the two of them, they finished between 31 and 35 in first runs in about a dozen straight starts, or so it seemed. It was no fun. They were skiing really fast sections, and making plenty mistakes. A month later, they were well into the flip. And had big point drops. Takes two results. The mistakes were less frequent with one. The other was really fast in those sections.
Now without knowing the facts, you could look at those results and think...well that kid went to that race with a low penalty and look at the result. The fact is that they were showing speed that might have been 20 points “faster” than their profiles suggested. It was the skiing, not some scheduling master plan.
Speed points. Our kids never really dropped until they were starting outside the US, and in NorAms, and skiing well enough to make significant moves. Speed points are IMO not a big issue until you're racing NorAms.
Points East vs West? There are a LOT of screaming fast kids in the West, and in Rocky. I won't get into names and programs, but knowing " a few of them", and seeing those kids ski at events like U16 and U19 nationals, the fast kids ski fast, wherever they are from. East and West. Has nothing to do with plotting to chase points, IMO. And when the college kids in CO show up, the younger kids get their eyes opened.
I’m in the camp that it will all take care of itself if the athlete/kid works to be fit, agile, stronger, more explosive. If the kid is coachable and develops better skills, and then if the kid can begin to incorporate real tactics as introduced by the coaches. As my son says, very often there is SO MUCH to work on before getting wrapped up in tactics. Nothing like parents, particularly ones who have done some coaching, to be asking about tactics.
My son just had a group at a FIS speed series and he was chuckling with me, saying that he’s still working on the same basic stuff, as they need to get it down. And these kids are pretty solid. Hands up, elbows in, set up good deliberate turns. Progressively crush the outside boot. And pay attention to the these three money turns in the set, kids. Let me suggest that it sounds like listening and paying attention was a lot more of a factor than wax. And tactics...yes, developing.
I would spend the money on QUALITY on snow time and training. For example, I would skip Hood. Being in the East, hopefully your son’s program is looking at Europe. Cheaper and better. Two weeks in Saas Fee in the summer is a seriously great experience, as one example. Among other things you see how disciplined {and good} the national team athletes are. Every singe run.
NZ is incredibly expensive. And some think they give away results and points there. They don’t. If you are that good, later on, and all the stars align, you might get a couple career results. By the same token some athletes spend 5 summer seasons and $50K and never see them.I know many. many more of the former than the latter.
I would not be concerned. At all. I'd presume his coaches will have him skiing a lot of USSA next season, and the FIS races that make sense. And as he skis after, and finishes more consistently and improves his FIS profile and start positions, doing more FIS.
It's a long road. And sorry to be so long winded.
Have fun and good luck to your son. Hope he has a ton of fun as well.
