Benefits of MIPS?

Discussion in 'Softgoods: Clothing, Helmets, Goggles, and More' started by ChrisFromOC, Feb 25, 2018.

  1. ChrisFromOC

    ChrisFromOC Putting on skis Skier

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    Anyone have insights on how much of a benefit is afforded by MIPS? My girls and I all ski with helmets that are relatively new, and two of us have Smith Vantage with the non-MIPS version. Just wondering if I should be upgrading.

    Thanks.

    Chris
     
  2. CalG

    CalG Getting off the lift Skier

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    Well,

    As there is a dearth of information that substantiates benefits to a skier that wears any helmet, the likelihood of relating empirical data demonstrating improvement for the MIPS version is unlikely.

    Common sense will need to be one's guide.
     
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  3. scott43

    scott43 Making fresh tracks Skier

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    I'm going to expose my ass here..and say MIPS probably won't help as much as most think. Spend money on a well made, good fitting helmet whether it's MIPS or not. And wear it properly!
     
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  4. Magi

    Magi Instructor Instructor

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    I'm a big fan.

    Recent evidence indicates that rotational force is a much greater contributor to MTBI (concussion) in falls than straight on impact. There is a meaningful reduction in rotational energy delivered to the brain when taking a fall that MIPS can help. I have anecdotal personal experience that it helps reduce trauma in a fall.


    If it's not a meaningful financial cost for you - I would upgrade. If it is, at your next helmet purchase - go with whatever the newest/best rotational force dissipating technique is on the market at that time. (POC has a new tech called "SPIN" that looks intriguing).
     
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  5. Drahtguy Kevin

    Drahtguy Kevin Après aficionado Pugski Ski Tester

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    CCM ain’t got no MIPS...
     


  6. scott43

    scott43 Making fresh tracks Skier

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    [​IMG]
     
  7. Drahtguy Kevin

    Drahtguy Kevin Après aficionado Pugski Ski Tester

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    I used to wear that model. Super lightweight and basically zero protection. Still have it in the basement. With McSorley around, Wayne could’ve worn a tiara.
     
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  8. Thread Starter
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    ChrisFromOC

    ChrisFromOC Putting on skis Skier

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    Yep, I’m thinking we should probably upgrade for an additional layer of safety.
     
  9. graham418

    graham418 Out on the slopes Skier

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    My helmet has it, but fortunately I've never had to test its actual capabilities. The literature supporting it sounds convincing enough, so, why not?
     
  10. LKLA

    LKLA Out on the slopes Skier

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    There are a million and one ways to hit your head. Some it seems will not much benefit from MIPS, while others will.

    One thing seems clear - regardless of which way you hit your head, MIPS will not worsen the impact.

    So if it is not going to hurt and if perhaps it will help, then I would rather have it than be without it.

    Given it barely adds $20 to the cost of a helmet it would seem to be worthwhile.
     
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  11. BGreen

    BGreen Out on the slopes Skier

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    Concussions are very expensive. Helmets are relatively cheap insurance. Mine are older tech, but I do plan to upgrade soon. I do find it interesting that MIPS is not FIS legal, and ski and road bike helmets have moved away from MIPS in favor of a liner based system. This may be more about aerodynamics or a licensing fee based decision, or it may be the difference in the nature of the impacts. In skiing, an impact hard enough to cause a concussion is also hard enough to destroy the helmet.

    Do your own research here, but what MIPS or any liner-based system does is decouple the outer shell from your head to eliminate the twisting component of an impact. MIPS also is more useful in CTE type damage — continual small impacts. By small, I mean not helmet destroying. That is very important in football, but perhaps less so in skiing. High end racing helmets do address CTE, but recreational skiers don’t have plastic bouncing off their heads.

    Still, IMO a helmet that decouples inner and outer skins is a very good idea. If you are someone you falls a lot (terrain park) MIPS is much more robust than a liner system. I guess as a recreational skier who probably is looking to get a few seasons from a helmet, MIPS is a good idea. If not, POC SpinControl or Briko’s fluid system is good. Try before you buy as they fit differently.
     
  12. scott43

    scott43 Making fresh tracks Skier

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    Not that I want to debate...but..MIPS offers 5mm of rotation..push on your scalp..then try pushing your helmet around when it's on your head. I would say, by far, the biggest problem with helmets is too loose and not positioned properly. Then keep in mind that MIPS is licensed technology..
     
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  13. PTskier

    PTskier Been goin' downhill for years.... Pass Pulled

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    "Injury statistics have found the most common accident situation to be an oblique impact. An oblique impact will give rise to both linear and rotational head kinematics. The human brain is most sensitive to rotational motion. The bulk modulus of brain tissue is roughly five to six orders of magnitude larger than the shear modulus so that for a given impact it tends to deform predominantly in shear. This gives a large sensitivity of the strain in the brain to rotational loading and a small sensitivity to linear kinematics. Therefore, rotational kinematics should be a better indicator of traumatic brain injury risk than linear acceleration."
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4090913/

    If the MIPS system just reduces the rotational G force...slows the rotational impact...that is doing a lot of good. The expanded polystyrene liner is the part of the helmet that reduces the G force for a direct impact...slows the rate the brain impacts the inside of the skull. As Scott said, proper placement, proper sizing--and no thick spongy knit beanie underneath that allows the head to slam into the inside of the helmet when impacted, and a functional strap to hold the helmet in place when it crashes are all critical to safety.
     
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  14. CalG

    CalG Getting off the lift Skier

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    Helmets are NOT "insurance" of any kind, They do not prevent injury, and certainly do not "make whole" after any injury or loss.

    They are a useful accessory that may reduce serious head injuries for skiers, but there are no* conclusive studies that prove the position.

    *There may be one, but it's a stretch.

    NB I deal with head injuries nearly every day I'm on the mountain. 'Had one today, with all the memory loss and confusion that signals the injury.
    In today's case, the helmet was broken in the impact.
    There is no way to know how many possible injuries of just this type were mitigated by wearing a helmet. (no calls for assistance needed)
    There is no doubt in my mind that some level of protection was provided by the helmet to the wearer. How much? That can never be known with certainty.
     
  15. Thread Starter
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    ChrisFromOC

    ChrisFromOC Putting on skis Skier

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    Yep seems like there’s only upside to adopting this technology.
     
  16. Thread Starter
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    ChrisFromOC

    ChrisFromOC Putting on skis Skier

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    One down, as I found a Giro Stellar MIPS at 50% for one of my kids.
     
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  17. oldschoolskier

    oldschoolskier Out on the slopes Skier

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    While you may dea with it every day, the statement of helmets do not provide protection is false!!!

    The helmet takes the first line of abuse. If you shattered your helmet you likely shatter your skull if you’re not wearing it. The idea is that a helmet provides an initial protection, is it the do all end all of protection NO!, however without one, same fall same conditions you will definitely have worse injuries as your head is what absorbs the impact directly no cushion, no extra shell to protect what’s valuable inside.

    As to other protections helmets provide or offer, they help how much who knows but some is better than none!

    As to brain injuries, we know that if you don’t cause it any harm, likely none happen, we also know that if you completely destroy it, it definitely causes harm! Anything else in between is a guess as to the outcome.

    So, helmets protect pure and simple. The only guarantee that they offer is that without one it would be a lot worse.

    Protect the head, protect the brain, avoid the headache!

    BTW I deal with my sons brain injury daily (19-1/2 years and counting) so I may know just as much as you, though not by choice, the only difference I’m not a licensed medical professional.
     
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  18. CalG

    CalG Getting off the lift Skier

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    Old school

    Just to be perfectly clear on my end. I did not say, and do not hold a position that helmets "do not provide protection". They do!
    I wrote, and hold the position that "helmets do not PREVENT injury. Helmets may prevent greater injury, but as included, there are NO significant studies or data to support that. even if it is common sense.

    Words only.

    The OP was interested in comparative information regarding two forms of head protection. I point out the difficulty of obtaining any but subjective comment on the topic.
     
  19. Ron

    Ron AKA Finndog Pugski Ski Tester

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    happy reading. the problem with MIPs is its never been truly tested and as stated above the helmet has to be worn in a very specific way and even then, your skull is natures MIPs. Interesting to note, Specialized still does not have a MIPs version. Everyone is looking at Mips when they should be looking at the helmet's level of protection first. Take a look at the shape of the helmet first! That said, the Cost of MIPs has come down dramatically. I Opt for a helmet that properly protects my skull and MIPs especially when it comes to Road and Mountain bike helmets.

    Read this Article which discusses MIPs and proper helmet protection. Not all helmets are equal

    https://helmets.org/mips.htm
     
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  20. Dave Marshak

    Dave Marshak All Time World Champion Skier

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    I replaced my helmets with MIPS when they needed to be replaced, but I have very little confidence in it. Without a standardized test, there’s no way to know how effective it is. I’m guessing that it’s more important in a road helmet than a ski helmet, but I really don’t know.

    dm
     

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