California/Nevada Beginner terrain crowds @ Kirkwood vs. Northstar/Heavenly

[marjoram_sage]

I haven't been to Kirkwood but I'm thinking about skiing there next season. I plan to enroll my 5-year old in lessons there. I have read they have better beginner terrain than Heavenly and it's less crowded. Northstar has good beginner terrain but I found it to be a terrible place to learn to ski. I plan to avoid Northstar as much as possible.

How is the quality of instruction? Probably better than Northstar as it has more expert terrain?

 

[Tim Hodgson]

Let me give you the speech I give my first time and beginner students from the "Bunny" Chair 9 lift:

"Kirkwood is a very wide mountain. It is divided into three parts, going from right to left: Timber Creek, Village Center, and the Backside. Every lift at Kirkwood is a ski lift, rather than a transportation lift. So, while it is always good to have a trail map with you, the layout of Kirkwood can be less confusing than other resorts.

See that ridge way over to the left? Well, Kirkwood goes from here to that ridge and then from that ridge that far again left. Before that ridge is the Village Center area and on the other side of that ridge is the Backside.

See the mountain in front of us? We ski there. It is called the "Pallisades." But it is not lift served. So, the skiers and boarders that ski and ride there have to traverse to get there and, because of that, they need to be pretty good skiers and riders.

So, in general, when those skiers and riders come down from the Pallisades to the Timber Creek area where we are teaching, we don't need to watch our backs quite as much. So, since the Timber Creek area is somewhat isolated from the more advanced lift served areas, we can really focus on our learning while in the Timber Creek area.

One more thing, when you are learning, it is best to reduce variables and focus on learning. So, to learn, pick a ski resort and stick with it, so your focus can be on learning and not where you are and where you are supposed to be at the resort.

Have you heard of Vail Resorts? Well, Vail owns Kirkwood. And of all the ski resorts that Vail owns, Kirkwood's Ski and Ride School is consistently rated among the highests by our guests. And I am proud of that."

If your kids are already ready, or when they are ready. I suggest that you enroll your kids in the "Jets" program. They are assigned to a group and that group is assigned a particular coach for the entire season. And they learn to ski just about all of Kirkwood. Including Thunder Saddle and many of the chutes.

Last season I rolled up to Elevator Shaft (to skier's right of Jim's Rock) to take a peek over and a bunch of five and six year olds rolled up right after me with their Jet's coach. After I watched all six of them drop in and ski down to Sentinel, I knew I had to do it to. I then skied over to their group and congratulated them that they had skied it better than me. Because they had.

I love Vail Resorts and I can't say anything bad about any of their other resorts, but Kirkwood is very special.

 

[Tony]

Palisades is spelled with one ‘l’.

Chairs 7 (high speed quad Timber Creek) and 9 (slow but long Bunny, a true beginner’s chair) are a great learning area away from main base traffic. It’s where usually I park.

But Kirkwood’s only other high-speed quad services advanced runs and being owned by Vail is not all good. Vail has not made any lift improvements since taking over Kirkwood over 8 years ago, and closes Kirkwood too early (with 10-20 feet of snow in some years).

Kirkwood also gets busy on Saturdays during prime season, sometimes filling or too slowly filling parking causing traffic entering the valley to back up a mile or more towards So Lake Tahoe. If all lifts are running, liftlines are usually not bad except for Sunrise.

Finally, while it’s only 177 miles from where I live in San Jose, that includes a lot of 2-lane roads and the last few miles crosses the Carson Spur, which often closes during and after storms due to avalanche control or danger. When closed, you have to take US-50 which has traffic going to Sierra-Tahoe, Heavenly and So Lake Tahoe.

 

[SSSdave]

The majority of those that ski KW drive up SR88 in R2 qualified AWD/4WD as there are more highway miles above mean winter snow levels than on any other 12 month highway in the state. So anyone considering visiting the resort regularly needs to consider that. Also it is a long distance from infrastructure so one needs to be logistically independent.

 

[raytseng]

The dedicated timbercreek is great for learning, however as always things can be conditions dependent and you will need to evaluate last minute decisions. Because kw is less manicured, in dry spells it may get icy or crusty, in those times you may want to shift to HV upper mtn or NS with more intensive snowmaking system and more grooming.
You can all play this by ear. At hv, the boulder learning area (if open) is also separate from the hordes and mellow (but slow lift).

Not sure if I wrote this to you already, but if your plan is just doing occasional skiing and not a program , then basing in SLT/ meyers is a common one. Then you can option to do HV when you can't get into kirkwood. Even the lessons too, potentially if you can't into Kirkwood due to conditions, the ski school can potentially shift your lesson or favorite private instructor to HV.

To avoid some of the logistics there are big benefits to kw slopeside, especially with a family. If you book early with the passholder earlybird specials, and can fit in 1 room it will not be too expensive.

Jets will produce awesome skiers I agree and not just in skills. if you are consider doing a team though, it is not only about the ski instruction, any and all committed ski team program going 10+ weekends a season is going to supercharge the kids ski skills.
I think each resort and the patrons selfselects a bit based on personality; and the kids and dynamic are going to mirror that. So you will need to see for yourself what kind of people are kirkwood families, vs HV families vs northstar vs squaw families, etc.; and matches to your values. A bit like houses in harry potter.

 

[marjoram_sage]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. Both our cars are electric and without AWD, so it's going to be tricky to reach Kirkwood during storms. I have usually rented a 4x4 Truck/SUV from SJC airport for most Tahoe trips at an acceptable cost but it does make going every weekend a tough thing for the JETs program. I think there are buses that go to KW from South Bay so when the schedule opens up, I will take a look at see if the JETS program is feasible.

Right now it looks like we will try out KW for next season and see how it goes.

 

[New2]

An extra $7.50/day gets tacked on in airport fees on top of the taxes charged at all the off-site rental locations... if you're doing it often enough, it might be worth looking at an alternate rental site. Just a single data point, but I tried taking the bus from one of the Stateline casinos to Sierra-at-Tahoe a couple years back. The Sierra bus was an hour and a half late picking up, but the Heavenly line next to ours was at least two hours late when we left. It was snowing and there were chain restrictions + tons of traffic--I'm sure it's more reliable in better conditions.
What made you decide to go back to Epic?

 

[raytseng]

I can't imagine doing a Bus Daytrip with a kid. You may have to be a fair-weather skier until you get a snow vehicle.
Even myself, the last times I did daytrips I was completely grumpy and not having fun pretty much most of Saturday; and what's the point if you're not having fun..

 

[marjoram_sage]

Just a single data point, but I tried taking the bus from one of the Stateline casinos to Sierra-at-Tahoe a couple years back. The Sierra bus was an hour and a half late picking up, but the Heavenly line next to ours was at least two hours late when we left. It was snowing and there were chain restrictions + tons of traffic--I'm sure it's more reliable in better conditions.

I'm sure buses are subject to the same problems as driving yourself. The buses I was referring to were from Sunnyvale/Fremont though.

What made you decide to go back to Epic?

I have a PCMR trip planned for MLK weekend with some friends so I thought I will stick to the epic resorts for next season. The cost of buying an additional pass for an independent would be better spent on lessons at Kirkwood.

It's also easier to find lodging at affordable costs close to lifts at Epic locations like Heavenly than the Ikon resort places. I was also thinking of attending the Camp at Whistler. I visited Alta/Brighton this season but I prefer PCMR at my family's current skill level. I tried Mt. Rose this time but they don't take 5 year olds on chair lifts (magic carpets only). I have looked into other independents near Tahoe but some factor of elevation, orientation, pass price, lesson prices, distance from lodging, crowds caused me to rule them out.

 

[Tim Hodgson]

Our March Miracle has Begun! Beautiful, Beautiful Day at the Wood today, 8-12"of powder! Ray and Dave are correct, a AWD/4WD is a Kirkwood necessity. I drive US Hwy 50 because the Spur closes more often than the Carson Pass. We keep down sleeping bags in our rig if the roads close. Since the most efficient way to create heat is to burn something - for instance gasoline or diesel - I wonder if an all electric vehicle would be warm enough during extended idling periods..

Marjoram whatever you do, keep your kid's skiing. It is a solo sport which promotes independent decision making. Rollerblade or roller skate with them wearing pads this Summer indoor or away from cars to work on their dynamic balance.