• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.
Thread Starter
TS
GregF

GregF

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Mar 6, 2019
Posts
27
Location
Philadelphia
What are you skiing now? I think everyone is suggesting they might be just fine.

But c'mon guys, are we really going to discourage someone from buying skis?
:huh:

I'm a big Navigator fan, but I think the Enforcer might be better for you - the tail and tip have a bit more rise to keep them from catching. The trade is that the Enforcer is reputed to be stiffer, which is not necessarily a good thing here.

I don't know the other skis you mention.

I am currently on QST 99 174cm
 
Thread Starter
TS
GregF

GregF

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Mar 6, 2019
Posts
27
Location
Philadelphia
The reality is that no ski will teach you how to ski moguls by themselves and others here are telling you that. That said, all of the skis you listed would be great for one to learn proper mogul technique as their tails are more forgiving when new mogul skiers get into the back seat by mistake which is very common.

If you are skiing the QST 99 as your daily driver in the East, I would look at this “what ski would be better for a harder snow conditions allowing me to rip a firm groomer but not kill me when learning bumps too”.ogsmile

Brahma 82 and Navigator 85 would be my favs I think for you. You could use this skis when things are firm to provide better grip on the groomers and when learning moguls. Would be easier to ski for sure in tight, firm moguls but once you learn proper technique, you will be ripping bumps with the QST 99s too.

As I said above following the contour of the bumps is critical and in the video above, she is dictating her turn shapes to follow the shape of the different bumps to always be balanced. Once you learn absorption and staying in balance, moguls become much easier and less scary.

The animation at 1:20 on is key to becoming a moguls master. This is same if you putting through the bumps or a World Cup mogul bashed. Just doing it at a faster rate and choosing a straighter path down.


Watch lots of videos and try some of the techniques on the hill and eventually get some lessons/guidance.
Really appreciated your help
 
Thread Starter
TS
GregF

GregF

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Mar 6, 2019
Posts
27
Location
Philadelphia
@GregF - something that really helped me improve was a good fit with my boots. In advanced skiing and particularly moguls, you need to have very good match between your feet and your boots. This allows very subtle motions of your feet/ankles to be transmitted directly to the ski. You will need very solid heel hold in the boot. If your feet are moving around in the boot, you will be hampered in progress.

I have seen people ski moguls at very high level in all sort of skis - from mogul specific (67ish underfoot) to twin tip 100mm underfoot. You can make the moguls easier with your current skis by improving your short turns.

From the other thread, I think this is a good summary:
Thank you. The boots are good (
Salomon - X-Pro 120) I used them on deep powder and trees and like them.
 

Wilhelmson

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
May 2, 2017
Posts
4,328
How about thoughts on dimensions and profiles for equal hard snow, ice, and moguls to help us understand why some of the suggested skis would be good for these conditions.

Width
Turning Radius
Camber (little, medium, lots)
Rocker (yes, no, maybe, front only)
Other (metal, carbon, tip/tail shape, etc.)
 

tube77

Getting on the lift
Skier
Joined
Feb 4, 2019
Posts
245

Here is a good deal for your need.
 

Ogg

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Jun 3, 2017
Posts
3,484
Location
Long Island, NY

Here is a good deal for your need.
I thought of those too but they're definitely too short for someone his size. You could always go with these if you want to go dedicated bump ski but I'm not sure I'd recommend it for learning.
 

GregK

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Mar 21, 2017
Posts
4,018
Location
Ontario, Canada
How about thoughts on dimensions and profiles for equal hard snow, ice, and moguls to help us understand why some of the suggested skis would be good for these conditions.

Width
Turning Radius
Camber (little, medium, lots)
Rocker (yes, no, maybe, front only)
Other (metal, carbon, tip/tail shape, etc.)

Some of the things that make a ski good in moguls sacrifice it’s edge grip and skis that grip ice well are usually tough to ski in bumps. You have to sacrifice performance somewhere and prioritize. Also, a comp mogul ski which is fantastic for a pro with perfect form to use is a very difficult ski for a rookie mogul skier to learn on as they usually don’t forgive mistakes in form.

Comp mogul skis are usually full camber for pop, absorption and edge grip, mid 60s mm in width so they are very quick edge to edge, longer(20m plus) turning radius as a deep sidecut would be too “catchy”, a bit of tip/tail taper to again prevent catching in the bumps and a stiff overall flex including stiff tail. Very fast and light through the zipper line of moguls but not that fun outside of a mogul field and not very forgiving. There are other dedicated mogul skis using similar shape to this but with a more forgiving flex like a Dynastar Twister/K2 244 that would be more accessible for less experienced mogul skis but again, limited in versatility outside of the mogul field. Perfect quiver skis but not One Ski Quiver skis.

Most of the all mountain skis listed are somewhat similar in shape to a mogul ski but wider for more versatility, with some tip/tail rocker and slightly shorter turning radius to make the more user friendly outside of the mogul field.

One of the biggest factors for ease in learning to ski mogul skiers is a ski with a forgiving tail flex. Getting “bucked into the backseat” because you don’t have your body centered and balanced with your legs absorbing is very common while learning bumps and a super still ski tail compounds this. A softer tail lets you get away with more learning errors in balance.

In a true mogul ski, a med-long turning radius and tip/tail taper prevents catching and that’s what most of current All Mountain type skis mentioned earlier in the thread also have which makes them great in bumps. A carving ski with it’s shorter turning radius, wide tip with no taper and the “snow scrapper” flared tail makes for fantastic grip on ice but makes them grabby in bumps and off trail. So tapered skis like the Brahma gives up some ice grip compared to a carving ski but are easier to ski in bumps and off trail.

Rocker makes it easier to pivot in bumps, so a bit of tip/tail rocker makes things easier especially if there’s lots of heavy crud amongst the bumps.

As far as metal/carbon etc goes, it’s really about what the skiers weight/ability etc are and what ski size they are choosing. For example, the Blizzard Bushwacker(non metal Brahma) is a fantastic bump ski due to its shape, light weight and flex but if the skier is heavier, that “forgiving flex for 160 pounds” might be a noodle on the sane for 220 pounds. That’s why for the OP, if they like the 174cm size of their current skis, a metal 173cm Brahma would be a better ski than a 173cm Bushwacker.

So forgiving(but not a noodle) tail flex, some tip/tail taper, bit of tip/tail rocker, medium turning radius and the appropriate stiffness/length for your weight/ability and you have a fun, accessible bump ski that’s going to be decent on groomers, great in bumps and even off trail. Btw-most of these all mountain skis are in the 80-90mm range but if you take wider skis with the same characteristics, they will also be fun in bumps too! They are just a bit more work but I LOVE my Enforcer 104s in bumps.

Long post but hope someone learned something! Lol
 

Scruffy

Making fresh tracks
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Posts
2,429
Location
Upstate NY
Navigator 80 would be my choice. Lighter and narrower than the other options you mentioned which are pluses for what you are are asking for.

I'm a fan of the Nav line, but I'm not sure the 80 has enough beef for a 220# guy.
 

SSSdave

life is short precious ...don't waste it
Skier
Joined
Sep 12, 2017
Posts
2,516
Location
Silicon Valley
Noticed these supposedly "mint" condition used 168cm Twisters with bindings just posted on ebay for $379. No year info so would need to email seller. Graphic is one of the later years before they ended production. In any case not a length for the OP but for any smaller person on the board interested in an exc rec bump ski that is rarely available in this era. Note mine are also better on groomed than comp mogul skis.

 

Ken_R

Living the Dream
Skier
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Posts
5,775
Location
Denver, CO
I guess the question is : If you have 50 years old friend, 220 lb, descent groom skier who would ask you advice which ski to choose to start to learn moguls :

Salomon QST 85 ,
Nordica Navigator 80,
Nordica Enforcer,
Blizzard Brahma,
Blizard Bushwacker

Which one would you recomend?

Thank you


Navigator 80 no question
 

Guy in Shorts

Tree Psycho
Skier
Joined
Feb 27, 2016
Posts
2,168
Location
Killington
Welcome @GregF, Not nearly enough of us Clydes skiing the bumps. Me - 6' 244lbs, 60 yo aspiring bump skier on my third pair of Salomon X-pro 120 boots. Every ski in my quiver is a bump ski and mostly these days are I attempting to ski the moguls with a low impact style that I can get away with as I age. From your list hands down my top two choices.
Nordica Enforcer
Blizzard Brahma
Good luck on your journey and come up to rip Killington on your new boards.
 

Marker

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Oct 16, 2017
Posts
2,351
Location
Kennett Square, PA & Killington, VT
Welcome @GregF from another Philadelphia skier! And another Clyde here (6'6", 230 lb, 61 yo) trying to learn bumps later in life. My current skis are too much for easy bump skiing (88 mm x 186 cm), but I take them through the blue Killington bump runs. Technique is more important, but I get where you are coming from on wanting skis that make it easier. Personally, I found even the Navigator 85 a bit wanting for my size. I liked the Head Monster 88 at 177 cm in a demo. Head Monster 83 in 170 cm might be perfect for you. Bumps can be hard on skis while learning so a used one for working on skills might make sense.

 
Thread Starter
TS
GregF

GregF

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Mar 6, 2019
Posts
27
Location
Philadelphia
Welcome @GregF, Not nearly enough of us Clydes skiing the bumps. Me - 6' 244lbs, 60 yo aspiring bump skier on my third pair of Salomon X-pro 120 boots. Every ski in my quiver is a bump ski and mostly these days are I attempting to ski the moguls with a low impact style that I can get away with as I age. From your list hands down my top two choices.
Nordica Enforcer
Blizzard Brahma
Good luck on your journey and come up to rip Killington on your new boards.
Thank you. I like trees at Killington :) I got Navigator and exactly what I need: easy and responsive. Maybe Enforcer would be better, but I am pretty happy :)
 
Thread Starter
TS
GregF

GregF

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Mar 6, 2019
Posts
27
Location
Philadelphia
What are you skiing now? I think everyone is suggesting they might be just fine.

But c'mon guys, are we really going to discourage someone from buying skis?
:huh:

I'm a big Navigator fan, but I think the Enforcer might be better for you - the tail and tip have a bit more rise to keep them from catching. The trade is that the Enforcer is reputed to be stiffer, which is not necessarily a good thing here.

I don't know the other skis you mention.
I got Navigator and like them. Thank you
 

no edge

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
May 17, 2017
Posts
1,300

Here is a good deal for your need.
This!!!

It is too short for your size but this ski is amazing in the bumps, exceptional all-mountain ski and it's fun! The ski is not difficult or too stiff. Smooth on flats and perfectly built for bumps. I believe that you will find them helpful while learning.
 

Sponsor

Top