GregF

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Mar 6, 2019
Posts
26
Location
Philadelphia
Looking for advice for all-mountain skis to learn bumps/ moguls. I am 50 years old, 220 lb, advanced on groomed slopes. Thank you in advance.
 

GregK

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Mar 21, 2017
Posts
1,137
Location
Ontario, Canada
For your size, the 180cm Blizzard Brahma(both would be great but 82 better in bumps), 179cm Nordica Enforcer 88, 179cm Nordica Navigator 85(bit more forgiving flex than Enforcer 88) and 180cm Blizzard Bushwacker for a softer Brahma (might be a bit TOO soft for 220lbs and 187cm kinda long for tight bumps)

All have great bump/mogul flexes and shapes that don’t catch but still hold an edge when needed.
 
Thread Starter
TS
GregF

GregF

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Mar 6, 2019
Posts
26
Location
Philadelphia
I was advised to get shorter skis ~165 in order to start learning moguls. Your thoughts?
 

KingGrump

Most Interesting Man In The World
Team Gathermeister
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
5,260
Location
NYC
What kind of bump skiing do you want to learn?
 

KingGrump

Most Interesting Man In The World
Team Gathermeister
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
5,260
Location
NYC
I want to know how to ski moguls
Here is a you tube search page of "bump skiing"
Lots of different way to ski bumps depending on you aspiration.
Different styles. Different tools. Your choice.

Several sample clips.



 

cantunamunch

Meh
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
9,609
I want to know how to ski moguls
That means different things to different people.

If you want to ski moguls like the competitors, all those skis are too wide and too all-mountain flexed, but the 165cm suggestion is OK.

If you want to ski western bumps all-mountain style then you probably don't need new skis at all, you need to work on short turns on groomers and work on controlling line on your current skis.

If you want to ski them like @KingGrump - get any 177cmish mid-80s to low 90s relatively soft ski and pop out to Taos for lessons.
 

GregK

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Mar 21, 2017
Posts
1,137
Location
Ontario, Canada
Think the main reason you sometimes see shorter ski recommendations is that they are recommending carving type skis that typically have stiffer tails and are heavier usually so the shorter lengths in those types of skis will be softer and more forgiving.
The overall flex(especially the tails) in all mountain skis along with a bit of tip/tail taper make them less catchy and more forgiving than a carving ski in bumps. You can go to more appropriate lengths(175-180cm for your size) in those skis that will be more stable in bumps/anywhere especially as you improve but won’t be too long when you’re starting out. As well, a 165cm length might be perfect bump ski for a lighter skier but not for someone at 220lbs with some skill on piste.

The biggest issue with beginning mogul skiers is they are not keeping their upper body forward and stable and absorbing the bump with their lower body. You want to keep the upper body near the same height while your legs are making the “backwards bicycle” circle shape absorbing the front side of the bump and then pushing the skis down on the backside of the bump. Your skis should follow the contour of the bump and never leave the ground. If your weight is not forward, you will get caught in the back seat with skis in the air and you are now out of control. A ski with a stiff tail makes this even worse and harder to recover from.

Learning to follow the contour of the bumps keeping your skis in constant contact with the snow will allow you to eventually take any line through the bumps. Start off going diagonal through bumps learning absorbing techniques and then gradually build from there.

And use shorter poles(4” shorter) which forces your hands and weight more forward.

@KingGrump is probably referring to The Green Line, Blue Line and Zipper Line mogul skiing which uses different parts/sides of the bumps during your turns with more direct and faster speeds in the Zipper Line(world cup type mogul skiing).
 

GregK

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Mar 21, 2017
Posts
1,137
Location
Ontario, Canada
What are your current skis? As others have mentioned, they might be okay if they have fairly forgiving tails. Once you learn to be balanced in moguls, you can ski stiffer tails.
 
Thread Starter
TS
GregF

GregF

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Mar 6, 2019
Posts
26
Location
Philadelphia
Those videos are good , but they are for western skiing nice soft bumps with enough space between each other. I am skiing at the east coast, and bump are icy , hight and space is narrow :)
 

Superbman

Getting off the lift
Skier
Joined
Nov 23, 2015
Posts
273
Location
Western, MA
well, a short soft ski (ala short QST 85), will help you navigate the spaces between moguls by skidding and twisting easier, but I'm not sure that'll help you learn to actually 'ski' moguls. GregK's recommendations look spot on, and you should learn mogul skiing on a ski length you'd also use everywhere else on the mountain, too.
 
Thread Starter
TS
GregF

GregF

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Mar 6, 2019
Posts
26
Location
Philadelphia
I guess the question is : If you have 50 years old friend, 220 lb, descent groom skier who would ask you advice which ski to choose to start to learn moguls :

Salomon QST 85 ,
Nordica Navigator 80,
Nordica Enforcer,
Blizzard Brahma,
Blizard Bushwacker

Which one would you recomend?

Thank you
 

SSSdave

life is short precious ...don't waste it
Skier
Joined
Sep 12, 2017
Posts
1,345
Location
Silicon Valley
Subject was discussed at length here:

 

KingGrump

Most Interesting Man In The World
Team Gathermeister
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
5,260
Location
NYC
Those videos are good , but they are for western skiing nice soft bumps with enough space between each other. I am skiing at the east coast, and bump are icy , hight and space is narrow :)
Same thing.
Had passes to Killington for 8 year when my son was young. So I do know.

The question you are asking only cover a small part of the ability to ski bumps.
My standard reply to a question like yours is "The tool on the ski requires way more attention than the tool on your feet."
Sounds a bit insulting. But hey that is the truth. Often, one doesn't even know what questions to ask.

@rocdoc posted this in the reccent "expert" thread.

https://www.pugski.com/threads/graduating-from-adv-intermediate-to-expert.17858/post-421100

You are at stage #1.


A recent thread by @CalG


The title and the first post is basically your question.


Technique and tactic is more important than the skis. Lesson, lots of lessons and mileage.
Here is a good intro to tactics.

 
  • Like
Reactions: Ogg
Thread Starter
TS
GregF

GregF

Booting up
Skier
Joined
Mar 6, 2019
Posts
26
Location
Philadelphia
Still when you go for skis shopping you not picking up the first ski from the shelf because of the technique more important than skis. I perfectly know my limitations and moguls is a pretty new area for me
so I am asking for advice which ski is better to use to gradually learn moguls. I understand that even the best skis will not ski mogul for me and I need lessons and practice and I also know that I have to ski down to the slop. My question was on gear recommendation not how to learn a moguls skiing.
Thank you.
 

mdf

entering the Big Couloir
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
4,343
Location
Boston Suburbs
What are you skiing now? I think everyone is suggesting they might be just fine.

But c'mon guys, are we really going to discourage someone from buying skis?
:huh:

I'm a big Navigator fan, but I think the Enforcer might be better for you - the tail and tip have a bit more rise to keep them from catching. The trade is that the Enforcer is reputed to be stiffer, which is not necessarily a good thing here.

I don't know the other skis you mention.
 

GregK

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Mar 21, 2017
Posts
1,137
Location
Ontario, Canada
The reality is that no ski will teach you how to ski moguls by themselves and others here are telling you that. That said, all of the skis you listed would be great for one to learn proper mogul technique as their tails are more forgiving when new mogul skiers get into the back seat by mistake which is very common.

If you are skiing the QST 99 as your daily driver in the East, I would look at this “what ski would be better for a harder snow conditions allowing me to rip a firm groomer but not kill me when learning bumps too”.ogsmile

Brahma 82 and Navigator 85 would be my favs I think for you. You could use this skis when things are firm to provide better grip on the groomers and when learning moguls. Would be easier to ski for sure in tight, firm moguls but once you learn proper technique, you will be ripping bumps with the QST 99s too.

As I said above following the contour of the bumps is critical and in the video above, she is dictating her turn shapes to follow the shape of the different bumps to always be balanced. Once you learn absorption and staying in balance, moguls become much easier and less scary.

The animation at 1:20 on is key to becoming a moguls master. This is same if you putting through the bumps or a World Cup mogul bashed. Just doing it at a faster rate and choosing a straighter path down.


Watch lots of videos and try some of the techniques on the hill and eventually get some lessons/guidance.
 

Seldomski

Paralysis by analysis
Skier
Joined
Sep 25, 2017
Posts
1,447
@GregF - something that really helped me improve was a good fit with my boots. In advanced skiing and particularly moguls, you need to have very good match between your feet and your boots. This allows very subtle motions of your feet/ankles to be transmitted directly to the ski. You will need very solid heel hold in the boot. If your feet are moving around in the boot, you will be hampered in progress.

I have seen people ski moguls at very high level in all sort of skis - from mogul specific (67ish underfoot) to twin tip 100mm underfoot. You can make the moguls easier with your current skis by improving your short turns.

From the other thread, I think this is a good summary:

There are bump skis and there are skis that are good in bumps but make no mistake it is still the Indian and not the arrow that makes the difference. If you are looking for a ski that helps your progression look got a ski that has some nice gradual rise in the tip and ideally some rise in the tail combined with some taper. I would also say to stay in the mid to low 80mm range which helps the edge to edge reaction time. Skis that come to mind for your weight and skiing ability...
 
Top