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James

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What was the movie a few years back with Plake, and a cast of several, about teaching the son of a dead skier to ski the steeps at Cham? It really is good and does an excellent job of teaching the pedal turn. Was it, "Steep"?

If you can find it, watch it.
Edge of Never
Not a pedal turn but a low energy turn. It's always annoyed me about that scene is it's unclear exactly what they're trying to teach.

You can see some of it starting at 5:20
 
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Rod9301

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This descent is rated 5.5, which is currently the steepest rating.

Sustained 50-55 degrees, with portions steeper, longer than 300 m vertical.
 

dbostedo

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This descent is rated 5.5, which is currently the steepest rating.

Sustained 50-55 degrees, with portions steeper, longer than 300 m vertical.

50-55 would make sense. The line I drew followed their path (as best I could) which cuts across the face in various ways. That would serve to shave a few degrees compared to drawing a line straight down the fall line.

Usually when I do hillmap measurements, it's either straight down the fall line, or right along the marked run. Either way, that gives a good reading. With something like this, though, the path would tend to be off more. That said, Hillmap is only as good as the topo map, which doesn't always perfectly reflect real world slope conditions.
 

Bruno Schull

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Hi Folks. That is indeed beautiful step mountaineering skiing. I'm familiar with the area and have climbed around there lots of times. The conventional approach would be to take the lift up to Grands Montets, skin up the glacier, spend a night at the Argentiere refuge, and then climb the face, before skiing down (also very possible that they did it in one push, i.e. up and down in one day). Coming in from the backside would be a much longer undertaking, and my understanding of these steep lines is that the skiers nearly alwasy climb the route first, to check out the condition and the line, before skiing down.

In terms of the climb, that's an accomplishment itself. Their climb up, for example, the Swiss route, that they partially descended, is a 50-55 degree sustained alpine climb. They would likely be using two ice axes, crampons, perhaps roping up a pitch or two, although these guys are so skilled they could easily solo or simul solo the whole thing--unless they climbed a harder more technical route on the face, which is also possible. I've climbed routes like that (though not quite as long, and when possible I definitely like a rope and rock rock or ice protection when possible! It always amazes me how these steep skiers ski down what for me would be an awesome adventure just to climb up!

In terms of skiing...steep skiing like this seems to be almost like a sport unto itself. I do some basic ski mountaineering, but absolutely nothing like that. I think steep skiing of that kind is one of the most dangerous games you can play in the mountains--and probably also amazing and exhilarating. One assumes that they have an absolutely solid foundation in all aspects of skiing, and I think that's fair. The IMGFA ski tests for high mountain guides are notoriously difficult to pass. That said, guides around Chamonix might spend 100 or more days on skis a year, and hardly ever go on piste. I would guess that their styles and skills are very different from, for example, a high level piste ski instructor (not better or worse just different).

The skilled skiers around Cham who are skiing these steep lines are certainly pushing the limits of the sport and what is possible. Here's a typical example:


There seems to be one young skier who can actually ski these steep faces with broad smooth linked turns--people talk abut him as a phenomenon, taking steep skiing in a new direction, somebody who makes skiing these faces look like skiing on piste. A recent movie of his has circulated widely. Hard to remember when watching the movie how steep those faces actually are:

http://www.laliste-film.com/

Nearly any one of the faces he skis down would be a big goal for me to simply climb up!

Enjoy and be awed.
 

Bad Bob

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HOLY CRAP!

How fast would you estimate he is skiing on 55*- 60* faces?
That is absolutely awe inspiringly insane.
 

Mike King

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James

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Hi Folks. That is indeed beautiful step mountaineering skiing. I'm familiar with the area and have climbed around there lots of times. The conventional approach would be to take the lift up to Grands Montets, skin up the glacier, spend a night at the Argentiere refuge, and then climb the face, before skiing down (also very possible that they did it in one push, i.e. up and down in one day). Coming in from the backside would be a much longer undertaking, and my understanding of these steep lines is that the skiers nearly alwasy climb the route first, to check out the condition and the line, before skiing down.

In terms of the climb, that's an accomplishment itself. Their climb up, for example, the Swiss route, that they partially descended, is a 50-55 degree sustained alpine climb. They would likely be using two ice axes, crampons, perhaps roping up a pitch or two, although these guys are so skilled they could easily solo or simul solo the whole thing--unless they climbed a harder more technical route on the face, which is also possible. I've climbed routes like that (though not quite as long, and when possible I definitely like a rope and rock rock or ice protection when possible! It always amazes me how these steep skiers ski down what for me would be an awesome adventure just to climb up!

In terms of skiing...steep skiing like this seems to be almost like a sport unto itself. I do some basic ski mountaineering, but absolutely nothing like that. I think steep skiing of that kind is one of the most dangerous games you can play in the mountains--and probably also amazing and exhilarating. One assumes that they have an absolutely solid foundation in all aspects of skiing, and I think that's fair. The IMGFA ski tests for high mountain guides are notoriously difficult to pass. That said, guides around Chamonix might spend 100 or more days on skis a year, and hardly ever go on piste. I would guess that their styles and skills are very different from, for example, a high level piste ski instructor (not better or worse just different).

The skilled skiers around Cham who are skiing these steep lines are certainly pushing the limits of the sport and what is possible. Here's a typical example:


There seems to be one young skier who can actually ski these steep faces with broad smooth linked turns--people talk abut him as a phenomenon, taking steep skiing in a new direction, somebody who makes skiing these faces look like skiing on piste. A recent movie of his has circulated widely. Hard to remember when watching the movie how steep those faces actually are:

http://www.laliste-film.com/

Nearly any one of the faces he skis down would be a big goal for me to simply climb up!

Enjoy and be awed.
La Liste was very cool. Very impressive. Beautiful cinematography. It's neat to see Nicolas Falquet, whom with his brother was known as "Huck and Chuck". Also Xavier de la Rue. They're featured in Guido Perrini's "Ten". ( on Vimeo) At this point some of that is nearly twenty years old. They were close to Jeremie Heitz's age back then. Xavier is nearly killed in an avalanche while filming.
Interesting to see the film company is based in Bagnes right next to Le Chable. If you take a train to Verbier you get off at Le Chable, then take a gondola up to town, or get a bus or taxi. I know Perrini used to be based up the hill in Verbier.

A lot of that skiing is applying what's been done in Alaska for some time. Things like the Spencer couloir and the Gervasuti are really impressive because of the narrow section at the top or the huge ice zones. Saudan makes a great point when saying for them 40 - 50 yrs ago the mountains came first. With this it's definitely skiing first.

Thanks for posting it.
 

James

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I'm familiar with the area and have climbed around there lots of times. The conventional approach would be to take the lift up to Grands Montets, skin up the glacier, spend a night at the Argentiere refuge, and then climb the face, before skiing down (also very possible that they did it in one push, i.e. up and down in one day). Coming in from the backside would be a much longer undertaking, and my understanding of these steep lines is that the skiers nearly alwasy climb the route first, to check out the condition and the line, before skiing down.

Wow, that's some refuge!
How is the trip across the glacier in winter?

IMG_5102.PNG

image.jpeg
 

James

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Here's another interesting vid for this thread.
The pov intro skiing off the Aiguille du Grand Montets is pretty spectacular. Where the guy stops, when you see it on the drone shot, is somewhat terrifying. Another couple meters and he's toast. - 1:18

The short hike down at 4:30 is basically vertical. The couloir skiing at 5:30 is impressive.
Le Brevent where they build the jumps is a ski area on the other side of the valley right in Chamonix. They must be on the backside of it. At 8:15 they ski to the Argentiere Refuge @Bruno Schull posted about.
 

James

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Here's one that shows kind of the route needed for the original post. Up Grands Montets tram, skin glacier, climb up ridge. I assume they'd just go further up the glacier to get to the op route. But the climb up is pretty serious. Incredible that the guy behind them, who passes them, is hauling 20liters = 20 kg= 44lbs of water.

At the end is a fatmap view of the route.
 
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Bruno Schull

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Hi James,

Cham is amazing. The approach to the Argentiere refuge in winter is relatively straightforward. You can 1) ski essentially straight down from the top of the Grands Montets to the flat portion of the glacier, skin up the side of the glacier, usually on the right, until you are about level with the hut, and then cross the glacier and climb the remaining short distance to the hut, or 2) ski slightly down and then to the right from the top of the Grands Montets, traversing passing below the north faces, until you are about level with the hut, an then ski down, across the glacier, and up to the hut. Basically, you have a "low road" and a "high road." The low road is considered safer, but it takes longer, probably about 1-1.5 hours for a party moving at a relaxed pace in good conditions. The high road crosses some crevassed terrain and is exposed to serac fall, but it is faster, and since you keep elevation longer, perhaps less tiring. Experienced alpinists going in to climb the north faces and ski down almost certainly take the high road. it's probably obvious, but both routes are on glaciers, and even with good snow conditions and many ski tracks, you would want to be fully prepared with crevasse rescue skills and gear on both routes. The few times I have skied a short distance over the high road to climb some easy/moderate couloirs (just to climb, not to ski down, steep skiing is far beyond my ability level) I was usually roped up for glacier travel. The hut is quite busy in the winter-it's a starting point for many classic tours and climbs. The views across the valley to the Courtes, Droites, Aiguillle Verte, and so on, and the views up the basin to the wild peaks in the back, and behind the hut toward the Argentiere and the Chardonay...really worth it, also in summer.

it's interesting and amazing to think about the kind of climbing/skiing these athletes so, but it's so demanding, mentally and physically, it almost feels like a different sport. As I made clear in some of my recent posts, my goals for next season are decidedly different: I want to improve my foundation ski skills, starting with carving on piste and professional instruction. Sure I can ski off piste and on glaciers and so on, but I will be much more comfortable and secure doing so when I have improved my basic skills.

Thanks for the additional video links--cool stuff.
 

James

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This is about as as tough as I've gotten. Pyschologically, seeing the town down below is quite freaky. Steeps really take some time to get sort of comfortable with. You just can't get that though without going on steep terrain. Going on those 50deg slopes with exposure like in the videos is really something. I can't imagine doing it at this point. I would likely puke. Videos just don't communicate the terror of it.

Frankly, I had no idea we were doing this that day. This was late afternoon. After we had skied and hiked out the Vallee Blanche, taken the bus back to Cham, then got in the guide's car for a ride up the hill to Brevent.

A couloir off the top of Brevent in Chamonix.
DSC_5989.JPG

Rappel in over the rocks above. This is the guide. My 192cm skis were too long! Lol. Just makes it worse. The first person got off the rope way too soon, so that left me as the third having to get off much higher than the intended flat starting/rest area.

DSC_5993.JPG

Start of where we skied down from. Though it doesn't show up much in this photo, the town below seen upper right is an unavoidable presence to the eye.

DSC_6008.JPG

Further down where it gets wider. The guide essentially went turn by turn with the guy below because this was a bit over his skill. Always the town below...yikes.

It was hardly "beautiful skiing". The guide did not want us linking turns up top because of the increased chance of falling.
After this day, when I went to the guide office to book the next day, I told them something a little less steep. "How about Italy"? Came the response. So next day was Courmayeur.
 

Bruno Schull

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Hey James--those are great pictures. Is that the couloir just below the face of the Brevant? You go down the piste from the top of the cabin, turn back toward the town, and then rappel over the rocks? It leads straight back down toward the bottom station of the lift? I've never skied there (too steep and tight for me!) but I saw a party there this spring. All the best. Bruno.
 

James

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Hey James--those are great pictures. Is that the couloir just below the face of the Brevant? You go down the piste from the top of the cabin, turn back toward the town, and then rappel over the rocks? It leads straight back down toward the bottom station of the lift? I've never skied there (too steep and tight for me!) but I saw a party there this spring. All the best. Bruno.
I guess. We took the gondola to the top, went around the fencing that's to the left, headed back the direction we came, then cut left. I don't remember being able to see the gondola but it must have been out of view to skier's left as you come down. I don't think the paths are parallel.

DSC_5981.JPG

On the way to it. I think we went left as the packed trail goes out of view.

DSC_5980.JPG

DSC_5983.JPG

The entrance. Rappel start is to the left, you can see a person's shadow. The actual path is in the shaded area.

DSC_5982.JPG

Rappel anchor is on the big rock face where the guide is hooking the rope up. This doesn't show the wind that made it hard to hear. "Did the guide say something about going over rocks??" I found out from the guide when clipping on the rope, "There's maybe 3 meters rock you go over.. No problem!"

This was our second rock excursion of the day. And I sharpened edges for this last night? Next time I'm renting skis...
 

Bruno Schull

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Thanks James--I was thinking of a couloir you get to by following the piste down and to the right from the gondolla, so maybe it's different. Or it could be the same one--just a different way to get there. I do know that one of those couloirs is frequented by the wingsuit countour flyers who regularly plunge off the Brevent. Now that's dangerous!
 

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