Bear with me--maybe resort skis can be even shorter.. 172--168...

[Viking9]

Picaboo needs to get rid of that video.

 

[oldschoolskier]

I've never seen him saying he prefers the longer skis. He successfully adapted, sure, but that isn't an endorsement. I'm happy to be proved wrong of course, but I haven't seen him say that.

Actually he did, at some point he made the comment that he was actually faster on the longer skis than the previous shorter lengths, this has also been discussed on various newsgroups as the newer generations of longer ski (manufacturers refining) came into effect. One of our reputable members was the one keeping everyone abreast.

 

[Mike Rogers]

I would argue street is actual not technically sound on groomers

17 world cup podiums....

These type of threads make my head explode. If someone can win multiple world cups, an an Olympic gold without being "technically sound on groomers", what does being "technically sound" mean? And why does it matter?

 

[Josh Matta]

Because she can point it more than anyone else doesn’t make her a good technical skier.

 

[Mike Rogers]

So super-g and downhill is just a matter of "point(ing) it"?

Although she wasn't a Slalom of GS specialist, she came 5th in the FIS world junior championships in slalom. She place 2nd in the World Championships in the combined.

That's elite....and slalom isn't just pointing it.

Obviously she isn't a great bump skier (or didn't show it in the vid), but I would imagine her racing background should translate well to regular groomers....

If we say a person can be a world champion* without being "technically sound on groomers", we're probably geeking out on an arbitrary sense of style.

Or we are just ruffling feathers.

* I realize it isn't the 90s anymore



Anyway....way off topic.

I agree with this:

how didnt this thread end at Competition bump skiing is irrelevant to actual all mountain skiing?

But
The discussion about whether comp bumpers were "awful all mountain skier(s)" was sort of a buzzkill.

 

[wyowindrunner]

I totally disagree. The US Ski Team mogul skiers in that video are showing amazing skiing. All-mountain skiing. Go anywhere skiing. Fast, on top of their skis, and in total control. I hope someday you can see that.

And, they are on short bump skis! (the point of the thread)

If those comp bump skiers wanted to slow down and make "pretty" turns they could. They can make any turns they like in the bumps. I don't believe the same can't be said of the other skiers in the video.

Big props to Marcus Caston and the Brazilian Super G skier for being filmed out of their element next to the comp bumpers. It looks like Jonny Moseley may have been smart enough not to get the same shot with the young guns?

Troy Murphy is skiing better than anyone in that video. He's an amazing skier. He's a better bump skier in or out of the course than anyone posting here. He's a freaking Olympian! I bet he totally dominates the rest of the mountain too. There are clear signs of that in the Return of the Turn video.

Josh, can you please stop making statements that comp bumps skiers are awful all-mountain skiers and the like? It's simply not true, and it's not becoming of a professional. I like you, I enjoyed skiing with you, and I want the best for you. Statements like that don't help you.

That Marcus Caston video just looks like some folks having a Damn Good time to me!! Bet thier faces are cracked from smiling! IMO the thing that makes skiing real world bump runs so much fun is the geometric variability and the quick reactions required. You get a nice 3-4-5 rhythm where it flows and then you get a couple asymmetrical boarder shaped traverses that totally skew the line. Having a whole bunch of tools in the bag of tricks is what gets you through them. The heel slams come in handy sometimes, just like everything else. A shorter ski just helps with the quicker turn initiation-lower weight, less to clear- fits the weird shapes better- at least for us old guys. When the fresh snow is getting skied out, I will head for the trees and the bumps on the way to the truck to swap out the 178's/100's for the164's/97's. Then it's bumps and cut up steeper stuff the rest of the day. My face hurts from smiling too.

 

[cantunamunch]

All right, anyone care to really step up their shortie game?

http://www.rtc-ski.ch/carving/

 

[Max Air]

Wow, interesting. Some sound advice like BGreen, but so much judgment. The general theme was "Can you go shorter on skis?" Yes, you can and, yes, you most likely already do. Even without changing your length, rocker technology effectively gives you less running edge on snow, so they act shorter. Add to this center-mounting and they get much shorter in turn radius. The newer skis are wider, even mogul skis, so more stability, another reason you can go shorter. Most mogul skiers mount 2cm forward FYI. That said, when I was young, I ripped the longest boards I could find. In hindsight, I wish I went way shorter on my mogul skis. When it came to the extreme comps, I wish I went shorter for tight spots, but enjoyed the length for the run outs. In speed skiing, I liked them long (240cm). My son rips the longest fattest boards around, has them centered mounted, and is better than I ever was. That said, he is still young and strong (30). I don't have the strength or balls to do what he does anymore, so I'm going shorter, because its easier! The best guys I know ski shorter skis (168-173ish) in all conditions. I prefer a 175 bump ski over a 180. I prefer a 180 all mountain over my old 212 VR 17s, I prefer a 185cm POW ski and a 180 Rondo ski. I'm 6' and 200lbs. In summary, try going 5 cm shorter and see if you like it. Rent a pair. It took years for me to put my ego aside, I'm sure it cost me in wins and injuries; I'm a slow learner. In fact, I should probably drop another 5cm.

This talk of being technical is silly. I only hear ski instructors or insecure racers use that term, usually the prior. Racers are taught how to be technical. Bump skiers are also very technical, but it's a very different technique (like constant cuff pressure and stances (stacked, Sun Valley method, etc.) and it doesn't always look technical when hanging it all out in any discipline. Sometimes you have to ride the inside edge of the uphill ski, just like Bode did in the best recovery I've ever seen in a race. I grew up in the freestyle era, then racing, the extremes, speed skiing, and lots of time in the back and side country for the past 45 years. At my area, you had to do it all to hang with the big boys. As Lance Armstrong said "It's not about the bike". It's often not about the skis, but it could be about the drugs . For what its worth, a bump field is the places I go to sharpen my axe. I'd hit a race course if we had a public course. The last place you'll find me is perfecting my technical turn on a groomer; but maybe that's YOUR thing. If you're bad mouthing bump skiers, or racers, I'm guessing you never quite made it to the top in one or the other. There is nothing quite like that perfect effortless turn in the midst of chaos. Where the world slows down at raging relative speed either through a bump field of poorly shaped moguls or hurling down in a rubber suit at 200kph. It's the experience. If yours is on groomers, sweet, more room for me. If your under the chair, I want to be there too, or in the trees, or crud, or on a lunch tray. It's all about the sliding experience, the mountains, community, nature, or whatever brings you bliss. Name your love; no need to hate. Peace! BTW, Candid Thovex was a champion bump skier before winning X-Games, Red Bull Extremes, and tons of other amazing accomplishments. It seemed to work for him -

 

[oldschoolskier]

Wow, interesting. Some sound advice like BGreen, but so much judgment. The general theme was "Can you go shorter on skis?" Yes, you can and, yes, you most likely already do. Even without changing your length, rocker technology effectively gives you less running edge on snow, so they act shorter. Add to this center-mounting and they get much shorter in turn radius. The newer skis are wider, even mogul skis, so more stability, another reason you can go shorter. Most mogul skiers mount 2cm forward FYI. That said, when I was young, I ripped the longest boards I could find. In hindsight, I wish I went way shorter on my mogul skis. When it came to the extreme comps, I wish I went shorter for tight spots, but enjoyed the length for the run outs. In speed skiing, I liked them long (240cm). My son rips the longest fattest boards around, has them centered mounted, and is better than I ever was. That said, he is still young and strong (30). I don't have the strength or balls to do what he does anymore, so I'm going shorter, because its easier! The best guys I know ski shorter skis (168-173ish) in all conditions. I prefer a 175 bump ski over a 180. I prefer a 180 all mountain over my old 212 VR 17s, I prefer a 185cm POW ski and a 180 Rondo ski. I'm 6' and 200lbs. In summary, try going 5 cm shorter and see if you like it. Rent a pair. It took years for me to put my ego aside, I'm sure it cost me in wins and injuries; I'm a slow learner. In fact, I should probably drop another 5cm.

This talk of being technical is silly. I only hear ski instructors or insecure racers use that term, usually the prior. Racers are taught how to be technical. Bump skiers are also very technical, but it's a very different technique (like constant cuff pressure and stances (stacked, Sun Valley method, etc.) and it doesn't always look technical when hanging it all out in any discipline. Sometimes you have to ride the inside edge of the uphill ski, just like Bode did in the best recovery I've ever seen in a race. I grew up in the freestyle era, then racing, the extremes, speed skiing, and lots of time in the back and side country for the past 45 years. At my area, you had to do it all to hang with the big boys. As Lance Armstrong said "It's not about the bike". It's often not about the skis, but it could be about the drugs . For what its worth, a bump field is the places I go to sharpen my axe. I'd hit a race course if we had a public course. The last place you'll find me is perfecting my technical turn on a groomer; but maybe that's YOUR thing. If you're bad mouthing bump skiers, or racers, I'm guessing you never quite made it to the top in one or the other. There is nothing quite like that perfect effortless turn in the midst of chaos. Where the world slows down at raging relative speed either through a bump field of poorly shaped moguls or hurling down in a rubber suit at 200kph. It's the experience. If yours is on groomers, sweet, more room for me. If your under the chair, I want to be there too, or in the trees, or crud, or on a lunch tray. It's all about the sliding experience, the mountains, community, nature, or whatever brings you bliss. Name your love; no need to hate. Peace! BTW, Candid Thovex was a champion bump skier before winning X-Games, Red Bull Extremes, and tons of other amazing accomplishments. It seemed to work for him -

One thing that you have left out is skis have changed dramatically in how they function. They are specialized tools and those that are true all around skis are good at most but not the best at any one thing.

The technical side, well that’s a interesting discussion, bumps absorb and turn to control fast as possible. SL, GS focused on edging and the turns with as little lose of speedpossible. SG and downhill how much can you let it go straight and still stay on course going as fast as possible.

Any one of the applications cause poor technical habits to ski fastest (ie let it all hang out), so let’s be real here. Groomers are not about being fastest, but being perfect. This allows you to “let it all hang out” while having enough technique to make it happen. Very fine line.

@Josh Matta comment hit this on the noise. Top racers at their peak generally have hit that balance and as a result technically they appear to suffer a little, they get back into regular skiing this is reversed as they really have been trained very well as it becomes about skiing again. Good example, Frank Klammers Gold medal run and and him skiing today. One a rag doll (which is the loose translation of what the Austrians called him) pulling the impossible to this is just pure poetry in motion.

Extreme skiing is about being good enough and not having the common sense to realize the true risks being taken. It doesn’t make you a good technical skier.

 

[Josh Matta]

@Max Air someone is all around technically skilled or has technical knowledge would nt ski like this or teach like this. again it does nt take technical skill to win, Street proves that.


I am not just ruffling feathers. Too many athletes trying to 'coach" with out a clue of what they are doing, what their student should be doing, or how to coach it. They basically make a living by being famous instead of being objective good at their job. Street is not only one guilty of this, I ll never claim to be able to DH like Street, zipper line like Mosley, or drop pillow line like Candide, but I

Curious Maxair do you have video of you skiing? Also what part of bump skiing judging is objective?

the reality is a a good offensive round turn is a good offensive round turn, no matter where, when or what snow the skier is skiing on. If you unaware or unable to do a good offensive slow line fast turn, than IMO you are not a good technical skier. The physical world works in a certain way, you can either choose to work with those contructs and develop a style via how you interact, or your style can be a lack of efficient and technical correct skiing.

Just to be clear before I get a response your just a know it all ski instructor who skis groomers all time this is the type of skiing I like to do.

 

[skix]

Some sound advice like BGreen, but so much judgment.

Welcome Max.

Name your love; no need to hate.

Yep. But some threads have more love than others. Discussions about length and width always seem to get combative quickly.