Bear with me--maybe resort skis can be even shorter.. 172--168...

[BMC]

Ok--I know we all watched the Olympic mogul skiers--I was surprised to to see the men were skiing on boards that looked like they were less than 170 cm's. I want to add something--I have a ski coach/teacher who is a member of Hall of Fame, 2x World Champion, legendary instructor (so he has some bona-fides) who insists that all resort skiers (even the great ones) are skiing on boards that are too long. By the way--without getting too lost in detail--I'm a very advanced skier--and clearly understand that longer skis equal more stability---but I'll tell you---the Olympic bump skiers looked like they were going pretty fast. I also understand that longer skis give you more of a platform--but, in addition, these men and woman are landing very big air. Maybe mere mortals like us actually benefit too.

Personally -I do like bigger longer skis in dimensional snow---but I'll tell you--I am beginning to think many of us (even good skiers) could benefit by taking 8 to 10 cm's off in-bounds. Seems like the best skirts in the world are. Thoughts--Best--David

I completely agree, although my thoughts aren't specifically derived from WC bumps skiing.

 

[tball]

@tball I would love to see video of someone who is comp bump skier, and a great all mountain skier, be prepared for the any example to be MAed by me and others....

OK, how about three US Ski Team mogul skiers?

Troy Murphy, Dylan Walczyk and Hunter Bailey are all mogul skiers for the US. Troy Murphy just competed in the Olympics and finished a disappointing 15th.

Even better, how about seeing them ski their short mogul skis off the course and off-piste (on the point of this thread).

Best of all, how about seeing them skiing side-by-side with a current and a former ski racer. And, both these racers are on bigger longer skis.

That would be crazy. Nobody would ever make a video like that!

Who do you think would display the better all-mountain skiing if they did?

.
.

Please do MA these guys (start about 1:05):


The ski racers are Marcus Caston, of course, the former ski racer now a ski movie star and Michel Macedo who would have raced the Super G in these Olympics, but for an injury. (I'm making an educated guess this is the Brazilian Olympic skier Michel Macedo from a lot of googling).

Who is "heel slamming"? Who is an "awful all mountain skier"? Not the bumpers ripping on the short bumps skis by my eye.

You see them all skiing together from 1:59-2:05, which is very telling.

 

[Josh Matta]

yeah they skiing bump so hard to determind their all mountain ability but they are skiing fast line slow, heel slamming. Again objectively speaking how is this style of bump skiing better? .... I am not a fan of Marcus bump skiing from an objective perspective either, despite being having more shape it has a ton of the same short coming of fast line slow bump skiiing.

 

[jack97]

Is comp bump skiing the fastest way down a bump run? no, you can GS turn or straight line though bump fields much faster.....

Do you have vids of this, making gs turns on a bumpy field. Its doable when the formation is not tight and the troughs have not formed. Otherwise how one skis the bumps does become subjective. So IMO, the "contrived" techniques does incorporate the elements to ski in the bumps rather than ski around them.

I'm in a judgement free zone once I hit the slopes. You guys/gals can decide, here's some vids of non or not so much bumpers in the bumps

We tried our version of Technical Skiing back then, vid of mogul section

Miller and McNichol in the bump at 6:51

 

[jack97]

I don't know where you're skiing, but this is just not the case at most major resorts out West. Perhaps the last refuge at your home mountain or a small selection of places. But it's not generally the case.

North East..... our mountains are smaller than the West and North West, its about geology and tectonics. To get the volume up, the mountain has to draw in the intermediates. Back then steeps were troublesome and then with the tillers coming in line everything became corduroy.

Back then Killington use to leave some nice bumps.

 

[oldschoolskier]

@DavidA

Why don't you insist that everyone ski Sno-Skates.

No Ski boots, bindings, waxing, tuning, small for easy storage and transport one size fits all. Bumps no problem, flats no problem, ice break out the hockey sticks. You don't even need a helmet.

 

[tball]

yeah they skiing bump so hard to determind their all mountain ability but they are skiing fast line slow, heel slamming. Again objectively speaking how is this style of bump skiing better? .... I am not a fan of Marcus bump skiing from an objective perspective either, despite being having more shape it has a ton of the same short coming of fast line slow bump skiiing.

I totally disagree. The US Ski Team mogul skiers in that video are showing amazing skiing. All-mountain skiing. Go anywhere skiing. Fast, on top of their skis, and in total control. I hope someday you can see that.

And, they are on short bump skis! (the point of the thread)

If those comp bump skiers wanted to slow down and make "pretty" turns they could. They can make any turns they like in the bumps. I don't believe the same can't be said of the other skiers in the video.

Big props to Marcus Caston and the Brazilian Super G skier for being filmed out of their element next to the comp bumpers. It looks like Jonny Moseley may have been smart enough not to get the same shot with the young guns?

Troy Murphy is skiing better than anyone in that video. He's an amazing skier. He's a better bump skier in or out of the course than anyone posting here. He's a freaking Olympian! I bet he totally dominates the rest of the mountain too. There are clear signs of that in the Return of the Turn video.

Josh, can you please stop making statements that comp bumps skiers are awful all-mountain skiers and the like? It's simply not true, and it's not becoming of a professional. I like you, I enjoyed skiing with you, and I want the best for you. Statements like that don't help you.

 

[tball]

@tball I would love to see video of someone who is comp bump skier, and a great all mountain skier, be prepared for the any example to be MAed by me and others....

How about Nelson Carmichael, Olympic bronze medalist in the moguls? Please MA him:


That's some sweet skiing that us older guns should aspire to match.

Note he's on wider skis, and it's hard to be sure but they look typical length. I'm pretty sure he can ski a great bump line like that on any size, shape or length ski. Those skis are a nice compromise for all-mountain Steamboat skiing.

 

[jack97]

Well, here's the godfather....Mike Douglas former mogul competitor and coach. Some think Moseley pushed the edge toward inverts, IMO, Douglas was the real deal pushed it to the max. As a minimum he co invented the twin tip and was doing tricks we now see in parks, half pipe and slopestyle. And there's vid of him skiing powder on skinny skis.

IMO, you have to be technically sound, more so than what some the previous posts have alluded to.

 

[tball]

IMO, you have to be technically sound, more so than what some the previous posts have alluded to.

Technically sound on groomers doesn't necessarily translate into good all-mountain or mogul skiing.

Olympic Gold Medalist Picabo Street demonstrates that here:

 

[François Pugh]

I agree with Josh. You mogul skiers are biased. .

Besides we all know that the best turns (and the fastest ones) are the perfectly carved arc-2-arc turns. .

 

[jack97]

Besides we all know that the best turns (and the fastest ones) are the perfectly carved arc-2-arc turns. .

arc 2 arc ????

Some are being taught to stivot dues to the contrived gate spacing.

 

[Josh Matta]

I would argue street is actual not technically sound on groomers she is also worse at bumps than anyone posting in this thread.

 

[BMC]

Wasn't Ted Ligety arguing against longer, longer radius skis in GS only a few years ago. He seems to go ok!!!

 

[oldschoolskier]

Wasn't Ted Ligety arguing against longer, longer radius skis in GS only a few years ago. He seems to go ok!!!

He did until he discovered the benefits. Old school length, modern shape and better construction equals ultra fast man to beat until everyone else learned what he figured out just took him a little longer than Ligety.

 

[oldschoolskier]

arc 2 arc ????

Some are being taught to stivot dues to the contrived gate spacing.

Not going to start and arguement that Stivots have a use, they do and it is important that you know how to do them well (great Hail Mary tool), but a properly carved turn is faster because all energy is transferred to the next turn, Hirscher Stivots a lot in the early days Ligety didn’t. Hirscher carves a lot more now and is the man to beat, took him a little longer.

 

[jack97]

Not going to start and arguement that Stivots have a use, they do and it is important that you know how to do them well (great Hail Mary tool), but a properly carved turn is faster because all energy is transferred to the next turn, Hirscher Stivots a lot in the early days Ligety didn’t. Hirscher carves a lot more now and is the man to beat, took him a little longer.

I have no problem with stivots....its a means to an end due to a contrived set of constraints.

 

[François Pugh]

Saw the Olympic GS. Stivots are needed, but limiting their use as much as possible yields a better time, as shown by the winner. Those off the pace did not carve as much as possible. (ok other mistakes were also made, e.g. not being a little slower in some spots to set up for the other turns where you needed to have speed after the turn.)

 

[jack97]

You see any heel pushes on the run below? He has great technical turns by mogul world cup standard but par to sub par air. In the 2009 World Championships he got beat by Patrick Deneen who pushes the heel to control his speed. Deneen had the air tricks at the time, not taking anything away from him. He earned that win. My point is not all mogul skiers pushes their heels to control their speed. Some do it to prevent further penalties such as a lane violation or other turn deductions.

 

[BMC]

He did until he discovered the benefits. Old school length, modern shape and better construction equals ultra fast man to beat until everyone else learned what he figured out just took him a little longer than Ligety.

I've never seen him saying he prefers the longer skis. He successfully adapted, sure, but that isn't an endorsement. I'm happy to be proved wrong of course, but I haven't seen him say that.