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Bear Mauling and other Bear Stories

François Pugh

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Snowfan

aka Eric Nelson
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We have some friends whose son works for the Forest Service (you may remember a story a couple of years ago about at guy that got mauled by the same grizzly twice in the same day, that's him). One of his jobs is carcass removal. Large carcasses (moose, elk, cattle, deer) attract grizzlies and they get very defensive of them and very dangerous. They way they get rid of them is to fill them with explosives and blow them to smithereens. The resultant pieces are so small and scattered it's not worth Griz's time to hang around it anymore.

Same guy?...
 

SShore

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That's him. We went to a Bear Aware class in Ennis and the Forest Service person that was there said not far from where he was first attacked there is private land that had a dead cow only a short distance from the trail and they think that is what the bear was protecting.
 
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Tricia

Tricia

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My heart goes out to her, it pains me that not enough training is given on this matter. The advice listed in the article is BS as it does not deal with spring bear which is hungry. Believe that stuff an you have the makings of the next victim.

It is a shame that the only really way of protection is firearm (and a big enough caliber to stop it) and even then it’s 50/50 at best.

Most of my experience is with black bear, which is considerably smaller and more skiddish than the bigger stuff out west. That said they do track and follow you (by avoid means they just stay out of sight giving you a false sense of safety). I’ve been tracked and followed at least within 50-150ft on several occasions based on tracks left on top of mine (fresh tracks in snow) when I’ve doubled back.

This means I’ve passed by extremely closely he’s just laying in wait hidden. I’m not dumb enough to follow his tracks as that leads to a certain encounter.

I mention it again for those outdoors, find and read the book, DON’T GET EATEN! in an earlier post as a primer to your safety. The short version is most animals will attack if they feel like it, the book gives advice how to stay away from situations to give them opportunity.

The most important thing is animals don’t read as a result don’t give a $#^+ about what some “expert” on animal behavior says they’ll do because if they feel like it they’ll attack. Period!

Keep your head up and alert, be aware and chances are you might avoid a bad encounter. Want to ensure it stacked in your favor carry a (big) gun and know how to use it. Even then it’s not gauranteed.
This is in reference to black bear as I have no experience with Grizzley and have no desire to have experience with Grizzley - I recall some bear training when I was mountain biking a lot in Michigan. The general rule of thumb was to avoid cubs, because the adult bear won't mess with you if you're not messing with the cubs.
Now, it seems that bear are more aggressive and, even the black bears are chasing human upon occasion. I've been told that this is because humans don't secure their garbage and they've gotten used to human smell being associated with food source, but I'm not knowledgeable about that.
 

Sibhusky

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The advice listed in the article is BS as it does not deal with spring bear which is hungry. Believe that stuff an you have the makings of the next victim.
Here's the advice, for ease of use:

General tips to stay safe in bear country:

  • Carry and know how to use bear pepper spray for emergencies.
  • Travel in groups of three or more people whenever possible and plan to be out in the daylight hours.
  • Watch for signs of bears such as bear scat, diggings, torn-up logs and turned over rocks, and partly consumed animal carcasses.
  • Make your presence known by talking, singing, carrying a bell, or other means, especially when near streams or in thick forest where visibility is low. This can be the key to avoiding encounters. Most bears will avoid humans when they know humans are present.
  • Use caution in areas like berry patches where bears occur.
  • Don't approach a bear; respect their space and move off.
What in particular are you saying is bad advice?

As to your damn gun, that's all very well if you have time to grab the gun, aim and fire at a vital spot. And if you're not there with a friend who you happen to shoot instead when you miss. But bear spray is more generally effective unless it's windy. And if the bear is already is on you, it's better to hit it with the spray, even if you're both enveloped, than to shoot yourself in the turmoil. We all have this idea that we'll see it coming. Guess what, you may not. My husband is living testimony to bear spray. And thanks to bear spray, he's not dead, my daughter's not dead and the dogs didn't get shot.
 

James

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What about high intensity noise or light as a deterrent? Has that been researched?
 

SShore

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The Bear Aware program my wife and I went to last fall was really interesting. I've always thought my Smith and Wesson Model 29 44 magnum was perfect bear protection, until we ran an exercise with bear spray. they had a bear dummy on rails and you stood with your back to it about 15 yards away. They yelled and pushed the bear at you. You had to turn around, get the spray out of your holster, remove the safety and spray before it got to you. Pretty much the same actions you would have to do with a pistol. I can tell you, even knowing it was an exercise and it wasn't really a bear, it was damn nerve wrecking and difficult to pull off. Plus, a charging bear is a hell of a lot faster than the dummy.

Bottom line is I may have been able to get out the pistol and hit the bear three or four times somewhere, but even if I did, and those shots were lethal, he would still have killed me before he died. About the only firearm I would be comfortable with (and what most guides in AK carry) is a short barreled pump shotgun loaded with alternate rounds of 00 buckshot and slugs. Even then, I'm not sure I wouldn't rather have bear spray.
 

Eric267

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This photo perfectly captures the essence of the "townie bears" in the Tahoe basin
image.jpeg
 

DanoT

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What about high intensity noise or light as a deterrent? Has that been researched?

I have used a Bear Banger, not against a charging bear, but a black bear hanging around at the side of the road about 100' away. It headed into the woods immediately.

The Bear Banger launcher looks like a ball point pen and the charge, about the size of your thumb, clips into the end of the launcher. When the launch button is pushed the charge travels about 100' and then goes off with a noise that is louder than a shotgun.
 
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James

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I have used a Bear Banger, not against a charging bear, but a black bear hanging around at the side of the road about 100' away. It headed into the woods immediately.

The Bear Banger launcher looks like a ball point pen and the charge, about the size of your thumb, clips into the end of the launcher. When the launch button is pushed the charge travels about 100' and then goes off with a noise that is as loud as a shotgun.
How about those sonic weapons that ships use against pirates? It's essentially a directed beam of sound waves. Invented by the guy who invented blue tooth and ultra sound imaging. Now called LRAD. Hardly small enough to carry though.
 

Sibhusky

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Note: not much use spraying the bear when she's still 40 feet away. I'll admit it would be hard to wait until she's 20 feet away when she's charging at you.
My family didn't know she was coming until she exploded out of the bushes at ten feet, maybe less. The width of a logging road and you weren't walking down the far edge from the side she came out. (Think of a nightmare Jack-in-the-Box.) Which is why she knocked my daughter down before she could even think about spray. Only the fact that my husband was a few feet behind my daughter and the bear went for my daughter first gave him the ability to reach for the spray and clear his pocket and get his finger on the trigger and the safety off before she had him down too. He got some spray off, all over himself, before he hit the dirt and she started gnawing on him. (The girl in Libby also sprayed herself.) Then he got back up and got the bear straight in the face at arm's length. Let's picture that same scenario grabbing for a gun. You'd have shot yourself. He was definitely hurting, but for all we know the reason she let him get up was because he tasted bad. This whole encounter including her departure may have lasted under two minutes. Naturally their sense of time is all distorted. My daughter couldn't even reach for her spray. We walk with the cans in our hands now. And we've got the bigger cans. Because, like the guy in Dillon, they sometimes come back.

By the way, if you're covered in bear spray, milk helps, but you're going to be oozing it out of your pores for days. It even was bothering the nurses days later if they didn't have gloves on. (And watch those potty sessions.)
 

oldschoolskier

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@Sibhusky my post was not a dig at you or your family, they were both unlucky and lucky at the same time. Praise whatever gods you believe in for this (the lucky part).

You’ve actually provided a primary cause for bear attacks. Dogs!!!!! They sense the bear and run back to you for safety (and in some cases to protect you) leading the enraged bear back to you.
  • Bear spray while it “may” help does not ensure success. If it helps great, and it can’t hurt to carry it, but to believe it as your only source of protection is foolhardy at best.
  • Bears do not always avoid humans based on sound. They have a keen sense of smell and know you are there long before they hear you. Sound may only annoy them to avoid you or alternatively attack you. See the problem. Defending a food source or protection young and you’ve created an attack situation by being noisy.
  • Depending on the bear species and the local, different things work better than others in defense of an attack. Some play dead is the best idea others not so, fight for life is!
As to “guns” you must learn and practice its use (under stressful conditions) otherwise it’s a useless (potentially dangerous) tool. Same applies for bear spray. If you read my post carefully even a firearm does not ensure safety but it does if experienced even the odds a little. It gives you a teeth, claws and strength matching tool.

My beef is that people without experience read advice like that and believe that they are safe and as a result become statistics. They have neither practiced with spray (or a gun) and hence the risk. Those same said people go out with dogs unaware of the danger that they pose.

As a quick reference my Uncle was on Norway expedition in the Mid 70’s which resulted in the death of his friend (photographer) by a polar bear attack. To defend the camp he (uncle) used an ice pick (climbing type) to attack the bear and his wife threw lit camp stoves at the bear lighting his fur. The bear was not deterred and dragged off the friend (never to be found). The people were considered a food source. Why no guns....Norway and the experts said no bears this far south, obviously someone forgot to tell the bear.

Next reference a Canadian trying to drive to North Pole on a motorcycle ‘76-77, had gun charges back then, carried a rifle and a revolver, justification was so I don’t get eaten in my sleeping bag....he referenced the Norway attack.

In bear country, you are at risk! Mitigate the risk with all proper precautions and tools (guns included). Learn how to use your tools properly.

Same applies when skiing and hiking in avalanche areas, learn and use all the tools for your own safety.

Either situation you don’t do this you increase your chances of being the “victim”!
 
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Sibhusky

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In our case, the dogs weren't the issue, as we know they bring the bear back to you and they were on leashes. (Plus my dogs are NEVER off leash except in the house.) And they miraculously stayed attached to my daughter. My family has no recollection of the dogs at all during this nightmare, but perhaps the dogs being by my daughter also factored in her emerging unscathed. And I'm glad no one had a gun. Because unless you were in Iraq and thought you were still in that situation as you hiked so you had it out and ready, you'd have just killed the wrong person or pissed off the bear.
 

oldschoolskier

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In our case, the dogs weren't the issue, as we know they bring the bear back to you and they were on leashes. (Plus my dogs are NEVER off leash except in the house.) And they miraculously stayed attached to my daughter. My family has no recollection of the dogs at all during this nightmare, but perhaps the dogs being by my daughter also factored in her emerging unscathed. And I'm glad no one had a gun. Because unless you were in Iraq and thought you were still in that situation as you hiked so you had it out and ready, you'd have just killed the wrong person or pissed off the bear.

I’m not going to make this a gun issue, as you clearly are thinking with emotion. If you don’t believe they’ll work don’t use them as you become the risk (and danger) with one.

But based on what you shared and what I’ve read and know about bear attacks this one sounded like a “I’m threatened and going to attack to get you to leave type attack”. Also your dogs were likely the trigger, believe it or not. Hence the surprise attack. It is not a case that the dogs brought them to you but the fact that the bear preceived them as the threat.

I’ve had a few close calls and looking back in every instance I’ve made an Error. Learn from it, a good portion can be avoid.

Bear country be on guard, always!!!! Don’t be sucked into a false sense of security by a guideline thinking it is the end all be all.
 

François Pugh

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Speaking of weapons and dogs...
http://www.myccr.com/phpbbforum/viewtopic.php?f=107&t=17372&hilit=Buck

Scroll down to the July 23rd post where the attacked canoeist chimes in. He read about about an attack where a man unsuccessfully tried to get a bear off his wife with a pocket knife, and decided to get a hunting knife. After reading his story, I got one too. Better than nothing, and also useful for cutting rope, shaving kindling wood, etc.
A little further in...
"I waited a bit to give you guys time to use the put-in on Abbey and then took a load to the end.
I cleared at least 2 deadfalls on the way back to get my canoe and had covered about 2/3 of the way when it happened.
So maybe 30 mins?

Everything seemed fine until I heard Sam growl.
I turned around and saw the bear.
It was about 20-25ft behind me, on the portage trail, and closing.
I was pretty shocked. I had heard nothing.
Without Sam to warn me I may not have been aware of the bear until it was too late.
I tried to make myself bigger, make loud noise and walk backwards away from it.
It was having no effect, the bear kept coming.
I briefly considered being more aggressive but was unsure if it would work or make things worse.
Before I could convinced myself to try something else,
the bear left the trail to my right, went maybe 6-8 feet into the bush,
cut to his right, ran past me and came back on to the trail blocking my retreat to my canoe.
From this slightly elevated portion of trail, he again began advancing.

I was now having some serious misgivings.
The bear's behavior seemed to me to be aggressive.
For my own safety I had to assume the worst.
I'm not a big fellow and could very well have been seen as prey size.

While I had resumed my arm-waving, noise-making, now walking backwards in the opposite direction behavior,
Sam had placed himself perpendicular to the bear and across the path.
Why didn't he run, why didn't he assume a face on aggressive posture, why wasn't he barking or growling at the bear?
Was he being incredibly dumb? Was he blocking the bears path? Was he sacrificing himself for me?
I'll never know what was going through his mind but I do know the outcome.

The bear took a few steps down the trail, opened his jaws and closed them upon Sam's back.
Sam yelled in pain.

Hope for the Best, Prepare for the Worst:

Numerous times I have discussed with my breeder/friend and on another board,
what to do in the extremely unlikely case that I faced predatory bear and my dog had momentarily distracted it.
Without a firearm, the consensus was I should use the opportunity to get away and save myself
and thereby giving some meaning to the dog's sacrifice.
To try and save the dog would be foolhardy and most probably fatal.
But boy reality can sure be different than hypotheticals.
If I had ran away it would have been towards the end of the portage where my gear was while my canoe still sat at the start.
A bit of a pickle on how I would have safely left the area.
I would have also faced the possiblity that bear when finished with his appetizer would have come looking for the maincourse.
I may have then been looking at a head on encounter with the bear armed only with the knife.
What would I have done, offered him my one arm to chew on while I stabbed him with the other?

Of course none of this was going through my mind at the time.
I only saw my beloved canine friend in danger of being killed,
and an opportunity to stop it.

Sam distracting the bear's attention gave me the opening I needed to quickly run behind the bear,
straddle its back and begin stabbing it in its neck area.
My unsureness of the effectiveness of the knife was replaced by some sense of satisfaction as the blade drove smoothly into the hilt.
At that time I wanted nothing more than to kill this bear and remove our danger.
I used my left hand to ward off any motion of the bears head or claws towards me,
while I struck again and again with the knife in my right.
One of the first few strokes must have hit a good spot because the bear began to quickly weaken.
Someone has suggested I hit the blood supply to the brain which would account for the rapid weakening.
I didn't stop until the bear was dead"
 
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Sibhusky

Whitefish, MT
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But based on what you shared and what I’ve read and know about bear attacks this one sounded like a “I’m threatened and going to attack to get you to leave type attack”. Also your dogs were likely the trigger, believe it or not. Hence the surprise attack. It is not a case that the dogs brought them to you but the fact that the bear preceived them as the threat.

There's no doubt that the group was perceived as a threat. But it was fall, she was trying to get all her calories in, they were on a carcass, and there were two cubs. She basically showed everyone how she felt and left. Any assessment of individuals in the party drawing her ire is just projection on your part.

Needless to say, we have also spent a LOT of time learning about bear attacks, not only in our readings prior to the incident (since we live in bear country), but in extended personal talks with a multitude of bear experts since. The only way to have not had this incident was to stay home. That's what "triggered" things. They walked into her space.
 

Sibhusky

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Not that no one has posted articles before, but here's another:

http://www.themeateater.com/2016/the-cold-hard-facts-of-bear-deterrents-bear-spray-vs-firearms/

"...the scientific data are convincing that bear spray is the better alternative, it is 90% successful to deter an attack with bear spray versus 76% for long guns and 84% for hand guns. Importantly, this number does not take into consideration the number of people who are killed or injured when firearms are used in such incidents."

The statement goes on to mention that it saves bears' lives, which to me is neither here nor there, much as I'd like to feel so nobly. My family still espouses that feeling. Me, not so much these days.

“Firearms should not be a substitute for avoiding unwanted encounters in bear habitat. Although the shooter may be able to kill an aggressive bear, injuries to the shooter and others also sometimes occur. The need for split-second deployment and deadly accuracy make using firearms difficult, even for experts. Consequently, we advise people to carefully consider their ability to be accurate under duress before carrying a firearm for protection from bears. No one should enter bear country without a deterrent and these results show that firearms are not a clear choice. We encourage all persons, with or without a firearm, to consider carrying a non-lethal deterrent such as bear spray because its success rate under a variety of situations has been greater (i.e., 90% successful for all 3 North American species of bear; Smith et al. 2008) than those we observed for firearms.”
 

Sibhusky

Whitefish, MT
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More:
https://www.fieldandstream.com/arti...pper-spray-instead-guns-stop-charging-grizzly

"
The results? Bear spray, when properly used, halted aggressive bear behavior in 92 percent of the cases. Of the 175 people involved in the bear-spray encounters, only three were injured and none required hospitalization. Wind interfered with the spray in only five incidents, and in no case, stresses Smith, did it fail to reach the target. Twelve users reported irritation from the spray, but the irritation was minor in all but two instances. And in the 71 encounters when bear spray was used, not once did the can malfunction.

By comparison, Smith's examination of the use of firearms in hundreds of bear encounters shows that bullets deterred a charge just two-thirds of the time, and that it takes an average of four shots to stop a bear. “A bear attack is a surprise encounter,” Smith says. “Most charges start from only a few yards away. A hunter with his rifle slung is nothing more than a hiker with a stick of steel on his back.”

If you're walking with your rifle in your hands then that's what you'll be using as you won't have time to grab your spray. In that case, try the gun.

He goes on:
"I know what you're asking yourself: “Is this really true?” As a test, I tacked a paper plate to a tree trunk 20 feet away and timed how long it took to make a single shot that hit the target'first with the firearm slung over my shoulder, safety on; then with it held in the ready position across my chest, safety off. It took me an average of 3 seconds to get off a bull's-eye shot with my Mossberg pump slung. In the ready position, the time quickened to 1.23 seconds. My Tikka .30/06 fared worse'3.5 seconds slung, 1.46 seconds from the ready, and once I didn't even get the safety off before pulling the trigger. It took me less than a second to deploy a wide and accurate blast of bear spray from a chest holster. These results, coupled with the fact that I was shooting at a stationary target, not a mouthful of teeth coming at me at 35 mph, convinced me that the best weapon in grizzly country comes in a can."
 

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