Gear BD Boundary 107 vs Enforcers to get into touring. You've probably heard this before

[Other Aaron]

Yes, you probably have been asked this before.

I am looking to start touring around the seattle area (Ive done my intro tour and Avy Class), but need a ski setup. I wonder if I should go for a bit more of a touring focused setup, or a 70/30 resort/touring setup as I decide how far I am comfortable going into the backcountry.

My current ski is a Nordica Enforcer 93, which is great for all my resort skiing, but it would be nice to have something a bit wider for deeper day. Hence I am considering a more heavier ski with one of the new hybrid bindings. I have tested the Nordica Enforcer 104 (I want to put shifts on) and loved the ski, but the conditions were cold spring skiing in the resort, so my 93s felt just as good. However it is a ski for next year, and will be at full price. Another option I have is the BD Boundary 107 pro, which is on sale until the end of the month, and I have some credit with BD to bring the price further down. I wanted to see if anyone has tried the skis and if they have a comparison to the enforcers.

Or do I go for proper touring skis (BD Helio, Blizzard ZeroG... etc.) in the 95-100mm range to try and work my way into a spring touring group. I've tested the Atomic Bent Chetler 100 and K2 wayback 96 in this group, and really enjoyed both (they lacked a bit once I hit the groomers again, but what did you expect?)

Seattle Area
Getting better at double blacks
Ht 6'2"
Wt 220ish
Ideal ski length 184-190
Likes - Nordica enforcers. stiff and damp
Dislikes - Rossi ___7 series, too soft
Boots - Tecnica Cochise 130 DYN

 

[Analisa]

It really depends on when & where you’re touring. If you’ve got a season pass and you’re looking for a setup for spring and summer for glacier & volcano skiing, your setup would look really different than Baker backcountry days in February (or touring all year and finding a setup that can do both).

 

[Tom K.]

Split the difference between pure Alpine weight/performance and backcountry with some Kore 105s?

Light, but well regarded in terms of pure performance.

 

[Tom McCoy]

I weigh about the same as you and can say that with the exception of spring touring on a base that is supportive, you will not like the skinnier skis you mentioned. The first time you encounter some really wet, punchy snow or breakable crust (unavoidable in the backcountry), you will know what I mean. There is no groomer safety net on a tour. If you are young and fit, and can tolerate the extra weight, I would look at something on the heavy/stiffer end of things like a Salomon QST 99/106 in a 188cm, Liberty Origin 96/106 in 187, 4frnt Raven in a 190cm (if you like reverse camber) for all around touring. Skis in that class will also to a decent job for inbounds or sidecountry use. For a dedicated, all-around touring ski I can highly recommend Volkl BMT 109's and VTA 108's, Moment Wildcat Tour's (both standard and 108) and a few others. One more dedicated touring ski that is no longer produced but still readily available for ,$400 is the Volkl BMT 94 in 186cm. I've had a pair for the last 3 or 4 years and share the opinion of many others that they are a remarkably competent ski in most conditions, and perform better than you would imagine in deep snow and crappy conditions.

I've been fortunate enough to attend the past 8 WWSRA dealer demos so I get to try LOT's (+/- 30) of skis every year, and being heavier than most, have experiences that many other don't. For instance, at this years demo at Mission, we had access to deep, medium density, off-piste snow. On my first run of the demo I took out the Bent Cheler 100's in 188. Headed straight for the deep off-piste and on my 3rd turn the tips folded up, went down, and I went over the handlebars. Was hoping that they might be a nice 50/50 ski, and they would be for a lighter person, but for me they went straight to the bottom. Was even tough side-stepping back onto the groomer where I could see the tips basically folded up in front of the binding and every step sinking straight down. So, in short, I would encourage you to try as many skis as you can in as many conditions as possible....like the Sturdevant demo at Crystal Saturday. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

 

[Other Aaron]

Thanks Tom, Just what I was looking for. The QST 106 was another one I demoed (I did all these at Spreefest), They were good, but felt a bit neutral compared to the Enforcer 104s (which felt poppy and agile imo) but this was all on packed side runs, so nothing like the conditions you were describing at mission ridge. The weight shouldn't be a problem, besides the complaints of my skimo tourer coworker.

I might need to do a bit more A-B'ing.

And can't Crystal start spring ticket pricing a bit earlier, might have to dig out my student ID

 

[Analisa]

@Other Aaron - if you're looking for a ski that'll tour all year and serve double duty as a wider inbound ski, put the Kores, Ripstick 106, Lib Tech Wunderstick 106, Backland 107, and Corvus Freebird on your demo list.

But the other piece I'd add is to consider going used for your first setup. Most people I know got their first setup wrong. Downhill performance is important, but there's usually a trade off for uphill weight (or price if you're going with one of those Volkl options @Tom McCoy mentioned). The distance/vert of tours influences the right setup, as does your fitness, but there's also a personal preference aspect. Most of the people I know who got it right the first time are ultra-runner/type 2 fun fanatics who already knew they got a lot of gratification out of the number of grams on the scale. For most, it took a short-lived setup to find the right setup they hated just as much on the uphill as they hate on the down.

 

[Scott Martin]

I'm 6'0", 190#ish, 215# with gear. I would say the most important decision is do you want a dedicated touring set up, or a 50/50 (or whatever) set up. I used to have dedicated touring skis, but was never happy with their downhill performance. Two years ago I put some kingpins on a pair of rustler 11s, and while I liked them for deeper backcountry days, I did not like the pins inbounds. This year the shift bindings changed everything. I'm fit enough that I don't mind the extra weight of the shifts and a 1800-2000g ski, and the binding means you give up nothing inbounds (I honestly can't tell the difference between the shifts and the look spx15's on my race skis). That said, i would pause before taking E104s into the backcountry, 2300 is pretty heavy (and the BD Boundary isn't much lighter). I also don't do any super long days in the backcountry, my days are usually 2-3 hours max with repeats (I did do a couple of 6+ hour hikes this year). If I was consistently doing longer days I might be tempted to add a lightweight set up again.

Given you like the E104, I'd consider a more directional ski that will ski similarly. Some to consider include the Line Sick Day 104 (lightest, along with Ranger 98), Salomon QST 106, Fischer Ranger Ti 98/108, Black Crows Corvus Freebird, Rustler 11. These vary between 98-114 underfoot (Rustler 11 188cm is 114, the 192 is 116 underfoot, 192 is a lot of ski to kickturn...), and 1800-2050g/ski. The wildcat is wider still, and a fantastic ski, but it's not a directional ski.

If I was only going to get one of those, I'd probably get the QST, it's a great, versatile ski.

I narrowed my freeski quiver to two skis this year, a pair of Renoun Endurance 98s and a pair of Rustler 11s, both with shifts (in addition to my race skis). If I was only going to have one, I'd go for a low/mid 100 underfoot for where I tour, but would depend on the conditions you'll encounter.

 

[Tom McCoy]

Analisa,

You make a great point in your last sentence. My first setup was a pair of Lhasa Pow 196's with Barons and wearing my RS 130's. "I was all about the down" and it was a setup that worked really well inbounds. Didn't take long for me to realize that I hated the up more than lesser skis on the down.....and that if you don't get up very far you don't get many turns on the way down! But, I'm 51 years old and the OP is presumably quite a lot younger so he can likely get away with heavier gear than I can. It is also EXTREMELY easy to go too light and end up with something that goes up really well swings between useless and terrifying on the way down. Personally, I choose my gear to best handle the worst conditions I anticipate encountering. When it's 2 feet of blower pow on a 40 degree slope, no tricky terrain, etc......who cares? Just about anything will work. But when you get into nasty breakable conditions, of which you must go through 1,500 vertical feet to get back to the sled, well, that's when the gear really starts to matter on the down. The OP at least is starting with a great pair of boots that will serve him well. Sucks to have great skis but boots that cannot drive them. A real issue with bigger guys.

I think a lot of good options have been presented and this time of year there are some great buys to be had on both the new (e.g. Fischer 98/108 as they are being replaced with a newer series that is much heaver....but ski extremely well) and used skis. Don't be afraid of used skis for your first setup. FWIW I bought my BMT 109's for $275, installed inserts for their third mount, and they are working wonderfully. Many options.

 

[Other Aaron]

Thanks guys. A lot of good info. I think my problem with used gear is that it has been difficult to find something in my length. Most of the used gear I have found is in the sub 180 range. Though I think I need to look a bit harder.

I'll have to give the QST another shot, and compare with all the other suggestions.

Hopefully conditions will be soft enough at crystal this weekend so I can get a proper feel for the skis

 

[firebanex]

Interestingly, I'm 6' and 220# and I own a pair of 185cm Black Diamond Boundary Pro 107s that I mounted with Shifts for pretty much the exact same reason you are looking to do. I've also owned Nordica Enforcer 100s for alpine use and a very similar ski to the 104s, the Fischer Ranger 102fr. As I can only extrapolate how the Enforcer 104 will ski based on the 100 and the Ranger 102fr, I will hazard a guess that it will work for what you want but will be a bit heavy to lug uphill. My pair of Boundary Pros are about 3100g per ski with Shifts, so not really much lighter but they feel lighter with how the weight is distributed in the ski. I positively love how the Boundary Pro feels in the air, it's so balanced and light feeling even when mounted on the line. They are my preferred powder ski in my current quiver as they float better than their width for my size and are very fun in those conditions. While it doesn't happen when I've been skiing powder, the tips of the ski are a bit floppy on groomers and prone to folding up on me when driven with an aggressive stance, to me the Boundary pro likes a less forward stance. I would doubt the Enforcer 104fr suffers from this.

So between the two skis, I would choose the BD Boundary Pro 107 over the Enforcer 104free for a backcountry type ski with a descent focused mindset.

 

[Analisa]

“Heavy” is relative though. My boyfriend’s about the same size and skis a Backland 109 in 189 with Vipecs & Dalbello Lupo TI IDs. On the lighter side for winter trips, but one of the heavier setups I see in spring with bigger days and frequent approaches where you have to carry. “Beginner” routes like Helens and Muir involve 4-6k of gain, some at altitude and it’s not uncommon for people to be skiing 7k of vert on Baker or Adams. I know I don’t put nearly the same flex on a ski when my legs are torched compared to an inbounds demo day.

@Other Aaron - what did you use for your avy class? And have you checked out the Turns All Year website (not the Facebook group) - there’s a sale forum for some reason tucked under trip reports where we’ve found the best stuff. Also if you can’t find used, I’d look at Ascent Outdoors and do a demo before mounting anything to get an idea of what weight you’re dialing in on - if they have your size of the Lithic Ramblin’ Jack or Joplin, I’d give those a shot. They’re heavier than most of the hyper light Voile/G3/BD stuff they demo out and my friend who tours on them is a big, hard charger type with a stockpile of the old metal Katanas. They're heavier, without being egregious, plus they're a local Peshastin with a solid track record doing OEM work for Praxis & Coalition Snow.

 

[Other Aaron]

@firebanex Thanks for the info, Might be inching towards those or the QST106s.

@Analisa I know Ascent Outdoors, I check in there about once a month when I go to the farmers market. I'll have to keep an eye out for used gear in my length. I actually did my rental for my avy class from there. Checked out the Voile Superchargers with the G3 Ions. I wasnt too impressed, but I partially blame my skill level in off-piste and powder conditions at the time. I've improved a lot since then. And the G3s had a bit more ramp angle than I was used too, so my thighs were burning.

 

[markojp]

Thanks Tom, Just what I was looking for. The QST 106 was another one I demoed (I did all these at Spreefest), They were good, but felt a bit neutral compared to the Enforcer 104s (which felt poppy and agile imo) but this was all on packed side runs, so nothing like the conditions you were describing at mission ridge. The weight shouldn't be a problem, besides the complaints of my skimo tourer coworker.

I might need to do a bit more A-B'ing.

And can't Crystal start spring ticket pricing a bit earlier, might have to dig out my student ID

The Enforcer 104 was one of the best skis of many of our testers' days at Mission. Kore 105 should be on your list as well.

 

[Other Aaron]

The Enforcer 104 was one of the best skis of many of our testers' days at Mission. Kore 105 should be on your list as well.

That's part of the issue. I'm almost looking for a reason to justify getting the 104 by itself.

 

[Slim]

That's part of the issue. I'm almost looking for a reason to justify getting the 104 by itself.

Then I would say, get the 104 with Shifts.
Yes, it will be heavier and more clumsy to transition than a real touring set up, but it can always become your resort or side country set up, so it won’t be wasted money. Then as you tour more, you can can figure out if you want to add a light and skinny springtime setup, or a soft and wide powder set up etc, etc. Like @Analisa said, most people will go through a few set ups figuring out what’s right for them. This way, you have somehting useful for the future, no matter what your touring ends up looking like.

Or, maybe even better, get them with the Tectons. That drops the weight more, and most importantly, speeds up transitions, so if you are with a group, they won’t be waiting while you are flipping pieces back and forth on your Shifts to get into ski or skin mode.
The Tectons should still do fine for occianal inbounds use, since they do have the alpine heel and toe elasticity.